So, we had these nasty wind storms yesterday.

I headed off to church in the morning, but when I got home, a big chunk of our tree had broken off and had fallen on our neighbor's porch, doing significant damage to the roof.

It IS an old tree, and there have been a few smaller branches that have fallen off, but nothing like this.  It was a piece of the actual tree trunk near the top, which just broke off because of the absurd winds.  However, the tree is still alive and is covered in leaves and seed pods during the warmer months, so it's not like we'd neglected to get rid of a dead tree.

I called up our homeowner's insurance company, just to check to see how responsibility worked in examples like this.  The guy handling the call said that because the tree is alive, and because the damage was the result of extreme weather, it's considered an "act of God," and the neighbor is responsible for submitting a claim with their insurance and handling the damage.  Just to see if that was normal, I did the dubious research of Googling as well, and everything seemed to come back saying the same thing.  Unless it was the result of outright negligence, this would likely have to be handled by the homeowner whose house was damaged.

Well, said neighbor (the wife) just came to our door to ask how we were going to get it taken care of.  She wasn't mean about it or aggressive, but you could tell she was upset and had been crying.  I told her what my insurance company had said, also letting her know that I'd be happy to help clean up the debris, because I still want to be a good neighbor and do what I can to make sure they are as well off as they can be.

Allegedly, she was told by the fire department that the tree being in our yard probably makes it our responsibility.  Also, she indicated that they don't have homeowner's insurance.

Anyone here work in homeowner's insurance or have any similar incidents that they can glean from to shed some light on this?  Are there scenarios in which we'll be held responsible?  If so, is a tree falling on a neighbor's house the sort of thing that might be covered under a homeowner's policy?

posted by O-Trap

Also, she indicated that they don't have homeowner's insurance.

Nothing to help on the claim side, but are they idiots?  It would still suck to pay the deductible for someone else's tree falling on it, but a hefty bill is going to hurt worse.

I've always understood it to be your tree, your responsibility.  Now if the limb that fell was actually growing over on their property line, it might actually be their responsibility (same reason they could cut that limb off, if they wanted to).

"Act of god" sounds right, but this is a pretty typical incident that I would expect to be covered.  Maybe your policy doesn't, but that doesn't sound right to me.  I think it might be correct that they would submit a claim to their insurance company, who might then come back to yours.  Since they don't have home owners insurance, it probably will come back to you. 

Talk to a lawyer and then talk to your insurance company again. 

posted by iclfan2

Nothing to help on the claim side, but are they idiots? 

Since I've lived here (about 7 years), they have a history of making unwise decisions, so it doesn't surprise me.  It blew my mind, too, given how inexpensive homeowner's insurance is.
 

posted by gut

I've always understood it to be your tree, your responsibility.  Now if the limb that fell was actually growing over on their property line, it might actually be their responsibility (same reason they could cut that limb off, if they wanted to).

"Act of god" sounds right, but this is a pretty typical incident that I would expect to be covered.  Maybe your policy doesn't, but that doesn't sound right to me.  I think it might be correct that they would submit a claim to their insurance company, who might then come back to yours.  Since they don't have home owners insurance, it probably will come back to you. 

Talk to a lawyer and then talk to your insurance company again. 

Great.

I have pretty good coverage last I checked, but if we end up having to deal with it just because they couldn't shell out, frankly, a few buck a month for homeowner's insurance, I'm going to be pissed.  Given how regularly they have beer and weed, they would have no problem affording it.

Neighbor's tree fell on my house a few years back.  The other half of this tree had fallen on the neighbors house a few years earlier.  This tree was rotted.  We even asked the neighbor to take the rest of the tree down.  But he refused.  The pancaked my porch, busted many holes into my roof, busted windows, and raked siding off the house, destroyed the electrical meter, and crushed my car. 

I was responsible for everything.  My insurance company said these are considered "acts of God".  With the history and condition of the tree my insurance company said they would try to show some sort of negligence and get the neighbor's insurance to cover it.  It was a long shot and I ended up paying the deductible and moving on.

Bottom line is your neighbor is screwed.

Stupid question - how can your neighbor not have homeowner's insurance?  If there's a mortgage I'd think it was mandatory, unless she's been living there a long time and owns the house outright.

I'm getting the same basic answer on Google, which I didn't know.  Just assumed if it's my tree, it would be covered under my policy.  Oh well, be the best neighbor you can.

posted by majorspark

Neighbor's tree fell on my house a few years back.  The other half of this tree had fallen on the neighbors house a few years earlier.  This tree was rotted.  We even asked the neighbor to take the rest of the tree down.  But he refused.  The pancaked my porch, busted many holes into my roof, busted windows, and raked siding off the house, destroyed the electrical meter, and crushed my car. 

I was responsible for everything.  My insurance company said these are considered "acts of God".  With the history and condition of the tree my insurance company said they would try to show some sort of negligence and get the neighbor's insurance to cover it.  It was a long shot and I ended up paying the deductible and moving on.

Bottom line is your neighbor is screwed.

See, despite their poor choices, we've usually gotten along with them, and they HAVE come up for us a few times (chased away potential burglars in our back yard holding bolt cutters near our shed when we were spending the night in Columbus, for example), so it's not like I'm even indifferent on them being screwed, but I also don't want to be on the hook for it if that's what a homeowner's policy is for, and they've just chosen not to have any.

She's even a vet, so she could get some kick-ass insurance through USAA.

Nice people, and helpful at times.  Just poor decision makers.

posted by Zunardo

Stupid question - how can your neighbor not have homeowner's insurance?  If there's a mortgage I'd think it was mandatory, unless she's been living there a long time and owns the house outright.

I'm getting the same basic answer on Google, which I didn't know.  Just assumed if it's my tree, it would be covered under my policy.  Oh well, be the best neighbor you can.

They've lived in that house for about thirty years, and one of their parents lived there before they did.  They've lived in that house longer than anyone on the block has lived in their respective houses.

It has literally never occurred to me that someone would choose not to get homeowners (or renter) insurance.  I don't get it.

Most mortgage companies will require you to have HOI on your property and if they find out that you don’t, they’ll purchase it on your behalf to cover their interest in the property. Not having any HOI seems pretty wrong on your neighbors part and I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t get in some trouble for that. Their mortgage lender is probably pissed. 

posted by SportsAndLady

Most mortgage companies will require you to have HOI on your property and if they find out that you don’t, they’ll purchase it on your behalf to cover their interest in the property. Not having any HOI seems pretty wrong on your neighbors part and I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t get in some trouble for that. Their mortgage lender is probably pissed. 

They own the house outright.

That sucks dude. I'd feel like shit because Id want to help but know I really couldn't pay for what that's going to cost. Sucks they made a bad decision not to get insurance, but sucks it wasn't their fault either.

posted by O-Trap

They own the house outright.

Ahh okay. That makes sense then. Even though that’s still really dumb. Not going to insure one of your largest assets? You do you..

Not sure how similar this is but a couple years ago my neighbor's house caught on fire. The fire department ended up damaging our roof with their hoses. We had to pay our deductible to have a large chunk of our roof replaced. 

posted by O-Trap

 However, the tree is still alive and is covered in leaves and seed pods during the warmer months, so it's not like we'd neglected to get rid of a dead tree.

I called up our homeowner's insurance company, just to check to see how responsibility worked in examples like this.  The guy handling the call said that because the tree is alive, and because the damage was the result of extreme weather, it's considered an "act of God," and the neighbor is responsible for submitting a claim with their insurance and handling the damage.  Just to see if that was normal, I did the dubious research of Googling as well, and everything seemed to come back saying the same thing.  Unless it was the result of outright negligence, this would likely have to be handled by the homeowner whose house was damaged.

 

Correct, healthy tree, no formal notice, owner of property damaged responsible.  You are not.

posted by majorspark

We even asked the neighbor to take the rest of the tree down.  But he refused.  

This is different.  If you can show you requested due to health of tree, then negligence is possible

posted by O-Trap

Nice people, and helpful at times.  Just poor decision makers.

Gonna be super awkward when they come ask you to help pay for it.

posted by kizer permanente

That sucks dude. I'd feel like shit because Id want to help but know I really couldn't pay for what that's going to cost. Sucks they made a bad decision not to get insurance, but sucks it wasn't their fault either.

Even if I could (no idea how much it's actually going to cost), I still don't want to just cover their cost because they refused to get homeowners insurance.  I mean, if it had been the result of negligence on my part, I'd expect to be held responsible, but it doesn't seem that different to a tornado taking a car from one person's driveway and putting it through another person's living room window.  The car owner isn't at fault for the damage.  The weather is.

But yeah, I still feel bad for them.  They're friendly neighbors who made a bad choice, and it's biting them in the ass.  I'm going to help them pull the chunk o' trunk out of their yard, and I'll order a special pickup for the trash people to haul it away.
 

posted by SportsAndLady

Ahh okay. That makes sense then. Even though that’s still really dumb. Not going to insure one of your largest assets? You do you..

Yeah, I honestly hadn't even thought about them not having any when I saw the damage.  It didn't occur to me until she told me they didn't.
 

posted by Verbal Kint

Correct, healthy tree, no formal notice, owner of property damaged responsible.  You are not.

That's reassuring, I suppose.  The tree is close enough to the houses (theirs and our own) that I've wondered if it would ever cause problems.  Still, there's never been any notice given, and the tree is very much alive.

I may just have it cut down this year, though.  In the event that something else breaks off in the future, it might land on my own house.
 

posted by iclfan2

Gonna be super awkward when they come ask you to help pay for it.

Yeah, the first interaction already was.  Fortunately, we were both pretty open about that fact, which actually made it easier.

Still, I foresee our relationship with the neighbors getting worse for awhile.

How can they legally not have homeowners insurance??

EDIT: Just read the rest of the thread. Disregard.

Though, they are clinically insane to not have it.

posted by SportsAndLady

Ahh okay. That makes sense then. Even though that’s still really dumb. Not going to insure one of your largest assets? You do you..

Especially if they own the house outright.  WTF?

Bad luck all around.

That’s why you have insurance....hard lesson they learned

posted by iclfan2

Gonna be super awkward when they come ask you to help pay for it.

Pass the buck to your insurance carrier, they can send an "act of god" letter to them if they press

I'm kinda late to the party, but a friend of mine had a neighbor with a tree that dropped limbs on his garage several times. He was responsible each time. He eventually ended up paying to have the tree removed. 

posted by Verbal Kint

Pass the buck to your insurance carrier, they can send an "act of god" letter to them if they press

In an effort to be neighborly, I'm going to help him get the trunk piece to the curb, and I'll take care of getting it hauled away.  I feel bad for them.

Just in case, I'll pass this on. He is a nationally recognized expert in tree law. Used him in a dispute with a neighbor over some tree damage on our Columbus property.

https://radio.wosu.org/post/columbus-attorney-nationally-recognized-his-tree-law-expertise#stream/0

Last year half a neighbor's tree fell into my fence during a storm. My insurance company said it was my problem because the tree was healthy and it was an act of God. The right thing for the neighbor to do would have been to pay my deductible, but that did not happen. They did take down the rest of the tree thankfully.

posted by Fred Garvin

The right thing for the neighbor to do would have been to pay my deductible, but that did not happen.

I'm curious why you think this.