I saw an article about Lance Armstrong this morning.  Apparently he was interviewed on the Today show.  There wasn't anything particularly interesting a bout it, but it got me thinking. 

Okay, so this guy doped through his entire career including during his 7 Tour de France wins.  And he is definitely is not the most likable person in the world.  I know all that is the case.  But the more I've learned about that sport and especially the era in which he rode, virtually every top rider doped.  That's not hearsay.  Lot's of those riders have come clean about it.  It is clear that, at least at that time, it was a drug-fueled sport.  Doping was necessary to even the playing field. 

So I get that what Lance did was wrong.  The doping sure.  But the lying to everyone and then the efforts to silence those who tried to out him were the most egregious things.  His efforts to discredit people though were not directed at a whole bunch of people.  They were primarily directed at Frankie Andreu, the wife of one of his former teammates (who has acknowledged that he doped too).  Frankie and Lance obviously hate each other and have a history of fighting.  Ugly and messy as that is, it's really just a feud between two people - an egomaniac (Armstrong) and an attention-seeking victim (Andreu).  

That's really the crux of things.  Armstrong is not someone I would want to pal around with.  But I honestly think his titanic fall and long-term disgrace are more a result of his unlikability rather than anything he actually did.  His punishment seems extraordinarily disproportionate to his crime.  

I guess I just can't believe this guy has the monster status he does all these years later.  Am I missing something.  

He's garbage.

posted by Automatik

He's garbage.

This

PED's should be made legal in sports, imo. Fans want to see bigger, faster, stronger but when an athlete gets popped there's a bunch of fake outrage. If HGH is going to help these NFL athletes bodies recover (it doesn't make them stronger, just helps with recovery) I have no issue with it. 

As far as Armstrong goes, I agree that he's a turd in the fact that he put up the persona that he was clean and was some kind of 'Superman." It was the lying, not the PED use, that I think rubbed many the wrong way.

Basically what he accomplished was amazing and probably was the best thing to ever happen to a fringe sport of cycling.  Lance is trash but he still won 7 TDF titles against a bunch of dopers.  All things were even up.  

Its crazy to throw him under the bus for performance enhancement.  Every pro sport from Golf, NFL, NBA, Olympics......are full of drug cheats.

Yeah, I don't even care that he doped. Vehemently denying it and attempting to ruin the people he worked with is why he's garbage. Fuck that guy.

Lance is a POS human. Don’t care that he doped. He lied when he got caught and threw everyone and anyone he knew under the bus to keep his image clean...all so he could keep making millions off his Livestrong brand. That’s the only reason he cared to be outed.

Well I get all of your points about his throwing his close associates and teammates under the bus.  A horrible thing to do for sure.  I just don't understand why the guy is such a villan in the public's eye after paying an incredibly hefty price for his crimes.  I really think it is because of his personality.  Like I said, he is not a likable guy.  But there are other pro athletes who have done horrible things and they able to be "forgivin" by the public.  Case in point - Michael Vick.  

I don't mean to sound like a Lance Armstrong apologist.  I really don't care for the guy at all.  But his accomplishments were incredible.  He didn't cheat to win.  He cheated to get to the baseline.  If I had won like he did, I can see myself becoming obsessed with protecting my achievements and doing some very stupid things as a result.  

Mike Vick actually came out and apologized and now does things to help animals. I’m pretty sure Lance is still telling people he was set up and how he is clean. 

He also duped the American public out of millions based on a lie.

posted by Laley23

 

He also duped the American public out of millions based on a lie.

This right here is why he is still a pariah to the American public---that, and he was/is/always will be a dick

Monty, that video sums it up perfectly.  Well done. 

posted by Laley23

Mike Vick actually came out and apologized and now does things to help animals. I’m pretty sure Lance is still telling people he was set up and how he is clean. 

He also duped the American public out of millions based on a lie.

This for me

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

But I honestly think his titanic fall and long-term disgrace are more a result of his unlikability rather than anything he actually did.  His punishment seems extraordinarily disproportionate to his crime.  

I guess I just can't believe this guy has the monster status he does all these years later.  Am I missing something.  

It's one thing to dope and keep your mouth shut.  But Armstrong actually threatened people.  He actually libeled and slandered people.  He actually sued people successfully based on that lie. The Sunday Times in London was forced to pay him $1.3 million dollars ten years ago when he sued them because a reporter wrote an article suggesting he doped.  He said on Oprah he was going to apologize to the reporter (who evidently did a ton of solid research to back up the article), but to date he never has.  Armstrong did pay the money back to the newspaper.  But from what I've read, he hasn't apologized to a lot of others whose lives he tried to ruin.

With apologies to Erich Segal, helping raise $300 million for cancer research apparently means never having to say you're sorry.

posted by Zunardo

 

With apologies to Erich Segal, helping raise $300 million for cancer research apparently means never having to say you're sorry.

 

I'm old enough tswydt...well played

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/12/the-big-chat-with-floyd-landis-part-1-is-there-any-hope-for-anti-doping-floyd-talks-doping-then-now-and-what-can-be-done/

Good read here.  Only the winners are dopers.....right?  The lesson here is just dont win the TDF and you can make a living being a doping cyclist.

I honestly didn’t know anyone still cared about him

posted by Zunardo

It's one thing to dope and keep your mouth shut.  But Armstrong actually threatened people.  He actually libeled and slandered people. 

I'd never seen anyone so aggressively prop-up the lie.  Most just deny, but yeah Lance actually sued people and got others blackballed.

I think one of the worst things he said was that after having cancer, he'd never take any drugs.  He allegedly worried and asked the doctor if PEDs had caused his cancer....and then after going thru all that, he went right back to the drugs.

And the problem with allowing PEDs in sports is that it's not an equal playing field with all the money out there.  Although I suppose you can say that's already the case with equipment, training, etc...But Lance also had the best doctors and drugs, so that was yet another advantage.  And where it might make a difference is they had the money to dope the entire team, whereas other teams it might only be the top guys.