posted by Spock

Cant police the world ...

Probably should have stopped there.
 

posted by like_that

As Justin has said, tell Government to quit meddling into healthcare and the prices will drop.  Look at the EpiPen.  Over regulation has made it nearly impossible for businesses to penetrate the market.  It made the EpiPen ridiculously expensive.  Finally another business was finally able to cut thru the red tape or find a loophole and cut the price in half.  Imagine if a bunch of smaller businesses could do this.   Hell, without insurance the prices wouldn't be as high as they are now.   

Fucking aye, on both counts.

Regulations do more to protect large corporate interests than they do the general public, so those pushing for them in support of the latter actually harm the latter by allowing less competition and a more prohibitively expensive product.

And if we didn't use insurance to cover every little thing under the damn sun, insurance would be cheaper.  I actually found something like that recently.  I pay for visits out of pocket, and when the offices find that out, they drop the price.

Shocking how much less things cost when they find out they can't just bill insurance for everything.

posted by SportsAndLady

With how cheap and cranky you are, no one would ever believe you have 35 friends. 

posted by O-Trap

Probably should have stopped there.
 

posted by like_that

As Justin has said, tell Government to quit meddling into healthcare and the prices will drop.  Look at the EpiPen.  Over regulation has made it nearly impossible for businesses to penetrate the market.  It made the EpiPen ridiculously expensive.  Finally another business was finally able to cut thru the red tape or find a loophole and cut the price in half.  Imagine if a bunch of smaller businesses could do this.   Hell, without insurance the prices wouldn't be as high as they are now.   

Fucking aye, on both counts.

Regulations do more to protect large corporate interests than they do the general public, so those pushing for them in support of the latter actually harm the latter by allowing less competition and a more prohibitively expensive product.

And if we didn't use insurance to cover every little thing under the damn sun, insurance would be cheaper.  I actually found something like that recently.  I pay for visits out of pocket, and when the offices find that out, they drop the price.

Shocking how much less things cost when they find out they can't just bill insurance for everything.

 

Are you familiar with Direct Primary Care?

posted by like_that

Are you familiar with Direct Primary Care?

I've looked into it in the past, but have yet to go to the doctor since. I'm getting to that age (past it, probably) where I should start going yearly. This is the route I plan to take if I can find a good doctor locally.

posted by like_that

Are you familiar with Direct Primary Care?

Sure, but normal insurance still takes into account the cost of regular visits by the average user when determining premiums.

posted by justincredible

I've looked into it in the past, but have yet to go to the doctor since. I'm getting to that age (past it, probably) where I should start going yearly. This is the route I plan to take if I can find a good doctor locally.

I am looking into taking this route as well.

posted by O-Trap

Sure, but normal insurance still takes into account the cost of regular visits by the average user when determining premiums.

I was just curious if you were aware.  I think this is the direction healthcare could go if there is a legitimate threat of single payer.  It would be hilarious to see the insurance bubble burst and our healthcare system go back to how it was pre health insurance.  

There is already a grassroots movement to get it going and it seems like more and more DPCs are popping up.  I know med schools are starting "clubs/orgs" trying to promote DPCs to their students. 

posted by like_that

There is already a grassroots movement to get it going and it seems like more and more DPCs are popping up.  I know med schools are starting "clubs/orgs" trying to promote DPCs to their students.

Is this what's commonly known as "concierge" doctors?  Because I think that is mostly only recommended for older people that need someone to help them navigate their various conditions and specialists.  It doesn't seem to return value if you're a healthy individual that only goes to a GP once or twice a year.

I don't see much savings in paying for a GP directly.  It's the hospitalization/cancer treatment-type stuff that will do you in.

Deductibles and premiums have skyrocketed over Obamakare, but they were skyrocketing before Obamakare too. I have a $3500 deductible and an HSA, but if I recall it was Bush who pushed for high deductible plans. 

I do think one of the advantages (if you want to call it that) of single payer is that the payer can then set the cost.

I've worked in health insurance for a while and I've seen some crazy billing. I used to work for an insurance company that dealt with multiple networks. We recieved a bill from a dr for $500. They determined it was billed to the wrong network so the dr rebilled under the correct network for $3500.

A friend of mine recently had a baby and they charged her $35 to hold the baby after it was born. 

There is definitely some money that can be saved by doing away with insurance companies, but hospitals are just as guilty as inflating the cost of medical care. 

FatHobbit, per your point, I think inflation in general is out of hand.  I understand that inflation is a thing in the free market, and in order for our standard of living to rise, inflation must exist.  But I feel inflation exists mostly just because inflation.  I feel that prices often rise just because prices should rise.  And you can blame idiot fucking consumers for that.  Millennials, in my opinion, are a lot to blame for stupid costs of something.  "Yes, I need to spend $50 on this T-shirt, b/c the quality is just that good!"  I mean... come on!?  It's an isolated incident (T-shirt), but I see inflated costs on a TON of things with little to no reasoning for inflated costs other than "the suckers will buy it!"  I think the american consumer has gotten incredibly stupid with their buying decisions, and don't vote with their dollars like they should.  Producers react accordingly.  

tl;dr - Blame everything on the consumer, not the business

posted by ernest_t_bass

FatHobbit, per your point, I think inflation in general is out of hand.  I understand that inflation is a thing in the free market, and in order for our standard of living to rise, inflation must exist.  But I feel inflation exists mostly just because inflation.  I feel that prices often rise just because prices should rise.  And you can blame idiot fucking consumers for that.  Millennials, in my opinion, are a lot to blame for stupid costs of something.  "Yes, I need to spend $50 on this T-shirt, b/c the quality is just that good!"  I mean... come on!?  It's an isolated incident (T-shirt), but I see inflated costs on a TON of things with little to no reasoning for inflated costs other than "the suckers will buy it!"  I think the american consumer has gotten incredibly stupid with their buying decisions, and don't vote with their dollars like they should.  Producers react accordingly.  

tl;dr - Blame everything on the consumer, not the business

lack of education where schools dont teach finance and life skills classes where you learned to budget and the value of a dollar was taught.

posted by Spock

lack of education where schools dont teach finance and life skills classes where you learned to budget and the value of a dollar was taught.

Don't act like this shit isn't taught.  It is.  A school can only do so much.  True teaching and learning is done at home.  Should I blame a gym teacher because america is fat as f*ck?  Should I say, "If only they taught these kids physical fitness and health in schools!!!1!"  

Kids don't make solid financial decisions because their parents don't make solid financial decisions.  We live in an "I want" and "I must have" society, and marketers are geniuses.  

posted by ernest_t_bass

FatHobbit, per your point, I think inflation in general is out of hand.  I understand that inflation is a thing in the free market, and in order for our standard of living to rise, inflation must exist.  But I feel inflation exists mostly just because inflation.  I feel that prices often rise just because prices should rise.  And you can blame idiot fucking consumers for that.  Millennials, in my opinion, are a lot to blame for stupid costs of something.  "Yes, I need to spend $50 on this T-shirt, b/c the quality is just that good!"  I mean... come on!?  It's an isolated incident (T-shirt), but I see inflated costs on a TON of things with little to no reasoning for inflated costs other than "the suckers will buy it!"  I think the american consumer has gotten incredibly stupid with their buying decisions, and don't vote with their dollars like they should.  Producers react accordingly.  

tl;dr - Blame everything on the consumer, not the business

Lol. That is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read on here. And that’s saying something. 

posted by SportsAndLady

Lol. That is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read on here. And that’s saying something. 

You did a terrific job of pointing out what you disagree with, and pointing out what makes it the "dumbest post you've ever read."  

Well, for one, you said “I think inflation exists because inflation”

Second, you are blaming millennials for inflation. Inflation is an economic fact of life that has always been around, but because ETB thinks the costs of shirts are too high (aka, you’re a cheap fuck), it must be because of millennials. 

Perhaps I should rephrase - Our current  hyperinflation (as I see it) exists because "inflation."  Meaning, prices aren't necessarily rising b/c the cost of production is drastically increasing, rather, they are increasing b/c consumers are so stupid with their dollars.  "Shit, I can't believe consumers are still buying this stuff after we increased the price so much."  Look at Justin's link example from a couple weeks ago with the Payless Shoes example.  That is a perfect example of how completely stupid consumers can be with their dollars, only because someone on Instagram hyped up Palessi, or whatever it was called.  In 2018, dollars are spent on perception and status so much more than they ever have been.  

I'm not saying that I'm innocent, either.  I can be very stupid and impractical, and impulsive with my spending.  

The estimated rate of inflation for 2018 is 2.2%. "Hyper"?

posted by ernest_t_bass

Perhaps I should rephrase - Our current hyperinflation (as I see it) exists because "inflation."  Meaning, prices aren't necessarily rising b/c the cost of production is drastically increasing, rather, they are increasing b/c consumers are so stupid with their dollars.  "Shit, I can't believe consumers are still buying this stuff after we increased the price so much."  Look at Justin's link example from a couple weeks ago with the Payless Shoes example.  That is a perfect example of how completely stupid consumers can be with their dollars, only because someone on Instagram hyped up Palessi, or whatever it was called.  In 2018, dollars are spent on perception and status so much more than they ever have been.  

I'm not saying that I'm innocent, either.  I can be very stupid and impractical, and impulsive with my spending.  

Free markets are the best allocator of resources in the history of humankind.

posted by queencitybuckeye

The estimated rate of inflation for 2018 is 2.2%. "Hyper"?

I assume if you look at particular sectors of retail, your numbers will be all over the board.  If it is not hyper by definition, my point still stands on how uniformed (most) consumers are when they spend their dollars.

Being forced by a government to spend $19,000 for terrible insurance with an $8,000 deductible, all of which dramatically increases costs (more dollars chasing same or fewer services) is the most absurd and despicable matter in our economy today.  Government involvement in health insurance and health care is a complete disaster, any way you look at it.

posted by QuakerOats

Free markets are the best allocator of resources in the history of humankind.

I don't disagree.  That doesn't mean that consumers are smart in a free market and that businesses are nice.  

posted by ernest_t_bass

I don't disagree.  That doesn't mean that consumers are smart in a free market and that businesses are nice.  

Didn't you buy a couple horses?

posted by like_that

Didn't you buy a couple horses?

posted by ernest_t_bass

I'm not saying that I'm innocent, either.  I can be very stupid and impractical, and impulsive with my spending.  

For budgeting purposes, the expenses for all of my wife's stupid animals come from a separate discretionary income account.  A "Farm Account" if you will.  Freelance work, coaching, etc. go into this account.  Salaries are used for necessities.

posted by ernest_t_bass

 

posted by ernest_t_bass

I'm not saying that I'm innocent, either.  I can be very stupid and impractical, and impulsive with my spending.  

For budgeting purposes, the expenses for all of my wife's stupid animals come from a separate discretionary income account.  A "Farm Account" if you will.  Freelance work, coaching, etc. go into this account.  Salaries are used for necessities.

 

You can't go on a old man yells at cloud rant about millennials, and then add that disclaimer at the end to justify your rant lol.

Your rant had some points, but I don't really see how its related to healthcare costs. 

posted by like_that

You can't go on a old man yells at cloud rant about millennials, and then add that disclaimer at the end to justify your rant lol.

You're right.

Your rant had some points, but I don't really see how its related to healthcare costs. 

Blame the consumer is the point I was making in regards to this (rising costs in general)

posted by ernest_t_bass

... and marketers are geniuses.  

Honestly, no.  They just know how to read data and get enough capital behind testing.

The world is our guinea pig.
 

posted by ernest_t_bass

Blame the consumer is the point I was making in regards to this (rising costs in general)

To a degree, though regulation plays a bigger role, both with regard to operating cost and curbing competition within markets.