posted by Automatik

Go on then. Feel free to refute the article...

posted by Automatik

 

What is there to refute?  Otrap already laid it out - there's plenty of sports that don't require a big financial commitment. 

The cost of travel ball DOES NOT prohibit people from playing a sport.  Why don't you refute that?

posted by geeblock

The cost absolutely doesn’t allow inner city kids to play baseball. The cost to maintain the field and lack of fields is bad too. This is why most kids play basketball. Easily the cheapest sport. Lots of kids who are economically disadvantaged if they are really   Good and the team wants to win will often have a “sponsor” which is usually the team booster club or a rich parent of another player. I have seen this happen in football and baseball in my coaching days 

If this were the case, there would be no inner city football teams, either.  Cost to maintain the field is just as bad, as more of the season is in inclement weather.  And equipment for the team is demonstrably more expensive.

posted by gut

What is there to refute?  Otrap already laid it out - there's plenty of sports that don't require a big financial commitment. 

The cost of travel ball DOES NOT prohibit people from playing a sport.  Why don't you refute that?

But you don't think cost is a factor at all?

Where I grew up it's 100% on the parents/towns not giving a shit anymore, especially in baseball and basketball. Of the public fields/courts I grew up playing all have gone to shit except one of each off the top of my head. 

Somewhat off topic, but anyone familiar with involving their kids in dance? I have a friend with two daughters who participate. Crazy amounts for an activity.

posted by Automatik

But you don't think cost is a factor at all?

Where I grew up it's 100% on the parents/towns not giving a shit anymore, especially in baseball and basketball. Of the public fields/courts I grew up playing all have gone to shit except one of each off the top of my head. 

 

Somewhat off topic, but anyone familiar with involving their kids in dance? I have a friend with two daughters who participate. Crazy amounts for an activity.

I was in two dance classes/week from ages 4 to 18. I honestly don't know how much it was. There was a monthly fee for each class, plus one or two pair of shoes throughout the year. Leotards and tights weren't super expensive, and we only had to buy one costume per class per year. 

I do have a friend with two daughters in competitive dance, and she definitely spends a fortune. They travel to competitions at least once a month, and it's not uncommon for them to have to fly to them. 

posted by Automatik

But you don't think cost is a factor at all?

Where I grew up it's 100% on the parents/towns not giving a shit anymore, especially in baseball and basketball. Of the public fields/courts I grew up playing all have gone to shit except one of each off the top of my head.

I will say this, though I admit that it's speculative:

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that cost is part of the reason that parents are so agreeable to their kids becoming sport-specialized.  I know a fair number of them probably go that way because they think little Jill or Johnny is going pro, but if you told a parent, "Hey, you don't have to bother with cleats, gloves, etc. because your son Skyy wants to focus on basketball year-round," I'm sure plenty would be cool with it from a financial standpoint.

posted by O-Trap

If this were the case, there would be no inner city football teams, either.  Cost to maintain the field is just as bad, as more of the season is in inclement weather.  And equipment for the team is demonstrably more expensive.

Baseball is more expensive than football and harder to get into. Football fields usually share with soccer. Taking care of dirt and dugouts and the cost of baseballs and the number of games makes baseball more expensive and the lack of fields makes it more inaccessible to kids in inner city. The burbs have more fields but I see lots of kids playing on shared softball fields.  That is just my experience but I’ll admit I don’t have hard  data to back it up and I didn’t look it up. That’s and interesting tooic

I absolutely don’t think kids it’s true that kids don’t play sports because they want to play video games and I don’t even know where your going with the participation trophy part when half of your arguments say kids should just get together and play for fun 

posted by geeblock

Baseball is more expensive than football and harder to get into. Football fields usually share with soccer. Taking care of dirt and dugouts and the cost of baseballs and the number of games makes baseball more expensive and the lack of fields makes it more inaccessible to kids in inner city. The burbs have more fields but I see lots of kids playing on shared softball fields.  That is just my experience but I’ll admit I don’t have hard  data to back it up and I didn’t look it up. That’s and interesting tooic

Are dugouts different now?  Admittedly, it's been almost two decades since I played, but ours were basically just a concrete slab with cinderblock walls and a concrete roof.  Had some bat slots and a few hooks.  That was pretty much it.  Wasn't a lot to care for.  And I'm pretty sure that little shelter could have survived a nuclear winter.

As for the dirt, there really was never much that went into it outside raking after every practice and game (which the players did for free) and the occasional pulling of weeds, which were never that bad, since the dirt wasn't exactly nutrient rich, and which we also did ourselves.  You never really had to deal with the turfing you see in football or the reseeding that football usually needs near the goal lines and near the 40s (which I can only assume is from kickoffs?).  Literally, the baseball field got mowed.  The players even put up the piping over the fences when the old stuff got too cracked and brittle.

I don't mean to say it's free, of course.  The team (read: school) does have to supply bats, helmets, bases, base anchors, pitcher's rubber, etc, and those are the kinds of things that do eventually wear out and need replaced.  Bats aren't cheap.  Helmets aren't cheap.  I assume bases and the rubber from the pitcher's mound aren't dirt cheap.  Still, none of them should be yearly expenses, unless something happens (like a kid banging on a fence post with a bat ... happened once).

With the kind of contact that happens in football, not to mention the sheer number of kids who can comfortably be on a team, I would imagine that you're replacing more helmets and pads more frequently, as well.

I mean, my mind isn't made up or anything.  If someone could show me that there are other necessary expenses for a baseball team that I'm just not considering, I'd believe it.  At face value, though, it would seem like weather + frequency of contact + wear and tear on the field + number of kids on a given team would equal football being more expensive handily.

For what it's worth, I'm not suggesting that video games are the reason that kids aren't playing sports necessarily.  We had video games when I was in school, too.

I just don't buy that it's because sports are suddenly cost prohibitive, either.

I think it’s many things that factor in. Lots of people in certain areas don’t want their kid getting concussions in football or soccer. Also people are having less kids I think. Getting your kid to and from practice and games when u work a lot isn’t easy. The world is definitely diff

posted by geeblock

I think it’s many things that factor in. Lots of people in certain areas don’t want their kid getting concussions in football or soccer. Also people are having less kids I think. Getting your kid to and from practice and games when u work a lot isn’t easy. The world is definitely diff

The world is, sure.  I'm just not sure the entry level financials for playing sports necessarily are.  In any way that they might be, it would seem like it's a man-made cost that isn't actually necessary.

Fwiw I played a shit load of video games when I played baseball and hoops in the 90s. Also got a trophy for every season of little league regardless of record. 

People (parents, kids, the community) seem to just care less from my personal experience.

posted by Automatik

Fwiw I played a shit load of video games when I played baseball and hoops in the 90s. Also got a trophy for every season of little league regardless of record. 

People (parents, kids, the community) seem to just care less from my personal experience.

I'm sure there's a reason behind it, but I think this seems like a reasonable theory.  For whatever reason, people care less.

Seems like nowadays adults care about themselves WAY more than they did when I was a kid (wow, that sounded old).  Narcissism could once be fed by "living through your kid" at school events, but now it is fed through tons more outlets.  That could potentially be a factor in the "give a fuck" field.

The OHSAA just issued a statement that might be indirectly related to some of this:

https://delphosherald.com/Content/Sports/Sports/Article/OHSAA-issues-stern-warning-to-parents-and-fans/192/1187/210823?fbclid=IwAR1Eg5OWbzbOpg-9fhciA2ot0FIf9GAtMUnEOspIrK2fLwJfCv9rzX1hEJE

I have to wholly agree with something like this.  Let the refs ref.  Let the coaches coach.  Let the players play.  Stop living vicariously through the players and/or trying to handle any team or coach issues for them.


 

Yep.  Friend of mine is an AD in Massachusetts, between the PC BS and the whacko parents he simply describes his job as brutal.

posted by O-Trap

The OHSAA just issued a statement that might be indirectly related to some of this:

https://delphosherald.com/Content/Sports/Sports/Article/OHSAA-issues-stern-warning-to-parents-and-fans/192/1187/210823?fbclid=IwAR1Eg5OWbzbOpg-9fhciA2ot0FIf9GAtMUnEOspIrK2fLwJfCv9rzX1hEJE

I have to wholly agree with something like this.  Let the refs ref.  Let the coaches coach.  Let the players play.  Stop living vicariously through the players and/or trying to handle any team or coach issues for them.


 

There is a big push to stop the arm chair quarterbacks and soccer moms from acting up.  There are fewer and fewer officials.   That's the main concern

From someone who has coached various sports for 16 years and refereed (retired) for 18 years, I can say this.  The fans and parents are terrible... but AD's don't do anything.  They don't want to lose the revenue, and they don't want the uncomfortable conversation/confrontation.  So they let it slide.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/storm-area-51-raid-alien-community-believers-las-vegas

I hope this happens

https://www.foxnews.com/us/school-cancels-football-game-days-after-cheerleaders-punished-for-pro-trump-banner

posted by Spock

https://www.foxnews.com/us/school-cancels-football-game-days-after-cheerleaders-punished-for-pro-trump-banner

I cannot imagine this happening to anyone else if it were not about President Trump.  Why do we do these things?  To the people who do these things, do they seriously look in the mirror and say, "This is exactly what I would want done to me if I were doing what they were doing, except in support of my 'side'..."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/us/politics/second-trump-whistleblower.amp.html

JFC.....we might have 47 of these 

So contrived; you’d think the dems and their media could do a better job.