Today the Netherland's prime minister resigned and the country will have to hold an election for a new government. 

I just got finished having a little convo on discord with an old friend of mine from there and apparently, this has been some time coming because the country has been infighting over migration. Too much, too fast. Nobody is sure when the new elections will be held, but most people over there want to have them immediately but that's going to be virtually impossible I would imagine. 

So what does the crew here think? Will other European countries follow suit or is this a one-off?

What was going on with the farmers over there? Several farmers killing themselves, apparently, after the government was forcing them to sell their farms and, allegedly, forbidding them from farming ever again.

I didn't dig too deep into this, but saw a lot of reference to it on twitter.

Well, France also seems to be learning this.

I think the issue is when immigration happens too fast, rather than fully integrate they form clusters.  And then, economically they get left behind, since all they've done is re-create their 3rd world home.  It works for a while, because the conditions they fled aren't there.  But eventually being left behind leads to real and imagined perceptions of discrimination, and then ultimately to unrest.

Feel like I read something that this starts boiling in the 3rd generation.  They don't have any comprehension of how bad conditions were where their grandparents fled.  All they see is a lack of opportunity. 

But it takes work to climb out of poverty.  The immigrants that succeed in the US bust their ass to take advantage of and create opportunities.  Critical to that is assimilation.  If instead they isolate and re-create a bubble of their homeland, then they aren't going have or find those opportunities.

posted by justincredible

What was going on with the farmers over there? Several farmers killing themselves, apparently, after the government was forcing them to sell their farms and, allegedly, forbidding them from farming ever again.

I didn't dig too deep into this, but saw a lot of reference to it on twitter.

If govt did that where I teach….I could see some having the same result. The solar panels about did them in and I don’t know if the panels will ever get done. It’s their life and been in their families for 5+ generations. Proud hard working people.

It would be really interesting to see how immigrants of comparable education and wealth from different countries fair.

My suspicion is educated and/or wealthy people from any country, and any race, tend to be much more successful than the uneducated.  But I'd guess the biggest factor might be country - a poor immigrant from France has a much better chance than a poor person from some 3rd world autocracy.

And the logic might be that the 3rd world person is happy to surround themselves with the familiar (rather than assimilate), and be completely content with how drastically their conditions have improved even despite being amongst the very poorest in the country.  But by the 3rd generation there's no concept of what you escaped, only what you don't have as the poorest in the country.

posted by gut

Well, France also seems to be learning this.

I think the issue is when immigration happens too fast, rather than fully integrate they form clusters.  And then, economically they get left behind, since all they've done is re-create their 3rd world home.  It works for a while, because the conditions they fled aren't there.  But eventually being left behind leads to real and imagined perceptions of discrimination, and then ultimately to unrest.

Feel like I read something that this starts boiling in the 3rd generation.  They don't have any comprehension of how bad conditions were where their grandparents fled.  All they see is a lack of opportunity. 

But it takes work to climb out of poverty.  The immigrants that succeed in the US bust their ass to take advantage of and create opportunities.  Critical to that is assimilation.  If instead they isolate and re-create a bubble of their homeland, then they aren't going have or find those opportunities.

Assimilation: The problem with that is that there are many people in the US who don't expect assimilation, they are perfectly fine with people being taken care of for 10+ years without even learning enough of the common language to get by. I know this because a few years ago we had that same discussion on this forum. Somebody had posted a picture of a woman that was being provided for by a church for 10 years and she needed a translator because she had never taken the time to even learn simple sentences. I stated that I believe that if you want to go to another country then you should learn enough of that country's language to scrape by. I got a lot of pushback on that by people who didn't think it was necessary to learn a common language. Do you guys remember that?  Wayback Machine (an internet archive site) could provide lots of examples, I'm sure.
https://archive.org/web/

Mass & Fast Immigration: The people generally get massed together in communities by government. Marseille, France is a really good example of that. We tend to see that happening here in the US, also. It's what I call ghettoing and hell, our government already does that to its own people, immigration aside.

Third Generations: I think your statement is pretty spot on. And again, it's not only immigrants, we see that with current US citizens. We see the Millies and GenZ acting much more aggrieved over the past than the generations who went through it. Precisely for the reasons you describe. It's a weird phenomena. Now it is predictable, but entirely nonsensical to me. 

It’s the same story around Europe. Multiculturalism ain’t it. Letting immigration run amok is a problem. Ho hum America. 

This is how the elite have figured out how to rule.  They despise any form of a united population.  The old divide and conquer.  Small groups of aggrieved pitted against themselves.  They dangle a key only they hold to their well being or prosperity in front of them that they will never grasp.  Prevented of course by racism, bigotry, homophobia, xenophobia, etc.  If someone comes along and offers a different path they are of the same ilk.  If someone within the various divided groups figures it out and attempts to leave they are immediately pounced on as a sell out.