OHSAA adds 7th football division.

• RedRider1

  

  This was teased when it was announced that the new comp. balance proposal would again be voted on....but it's now official. OHSAA Football will now have 7 Divisions.
  
  It was announced via Twitter that they're narrowing Division 1...meaning only the biggest of the big schools will be Div. 1.
  
  In the past, the 6 divisions each had around 115-120 schools.
  
  If you took all schools with 600+ boys...that's about 70 schools.
  
  If Div. 1 has 70-ish, then each of the other 6 will have anywhere from 105-110 schools.
  
  So basically, the smallest 10-15 schools in every division now (football only) may drop down a division under this new arrangement.
  
  The question I have is that if you're narrowing Division 1 for big schools only, will you still take 32 playoff teams? That's almost 50% of D-1....whereas the other divisions would qualify 32 teams out of 110-ish (about 30%). Wonder if they'll only take 16 teams from the 4 D-1 regions?
• Lockup Screen

  very interesting, great find rider...When will all of this take affect?
• RedRider1

  

  OHSAA is to release a press release this afternoon. I'll link it when I see it.
• CCRolly

  

  I'm assuming State Championship weekend will be going to the 3-day format now. Thursday-Friday-Saturday. Thoughts?
• OQB

  

  interesting...doesn't really do much for the other issue though.
• RedRider1

  

  CCRolly;1142616 wrote:I'm assuming State Championship weekend will be going to the 3-day format now. Thursday-Friday-Saturday. Thoughts?

  
  I'd imagine so. Play D-7 under the lights on Thursday night, then 3 per day on Fri/Sat.
• RedRider1

  

  COLUMBUS, Ohio – The Ohio High School Athletic Association will be adding a seventh tournament division in football beginning in 2013, Commissioner Daniel B. Ross has announced. The addition of a seventh division was approved by the OHSAA’s Board of Directors by a 6 to 3 vote during its regularly scheduled meeting on Thursday.
  The plan will place the top 10 percent of schools based on enrollment in Division I, with the remaining 644 schools divided evenly among the next six divisions. This will leave 72 schools in Division I with the other six divisions averaging approximately 108 schools. Each of the seven divisions will continue to qualify 32 teams to the tournament. Currently, the six OHSAA football divisions are comprised of an average of 120 schools per division.
  The plan for adopting an additional division was in response to a concern by some OHSAA member schools about the enrollment disparity that exists in Division I, where the current range is 494 males at the lower end of the division to 1,164 at the top. Based on current enrollment data, the lower end of Division I would increase to 600 males. Committee meetings were held to address the issue and the recommendation to add a seventh division came from the committee.
  “Adding a seventh division not only helps address the enrollment disparity in Division I, but it also will create 32 more tournament opportunities for student-athletes, their schools and their communities, many of which have never or rarely experienced the playoffs,” Ross said. “The committee members believe that this is an issue unique to football, especially since not all schools qualify for the OHSAA football tournament.” A separate committee, comprised of OHSAA Board and staff members, school administrators and officers of the Ohio High School Football Coaches Association, will be formed to finalize the details of this plan. Among the details to be determined: adjustments to the Harbin Computer Ratings with the addition of another division; regional breakdowns and assignments for Division I, and dates in which specific divisions will play their tournament contests, including logistics of an additional state tournament contest.
  Approval of an “athletic count” formula, which is included within a competitive balance proposal that OHSAA member school principals will vote on during the annual referendum process that will occur between May 1 and 15, would also be factored in before placing schools into their respective tournament divisions.
  The next two-year cycle for reassigning schools to tournament divisions begins in the fall of 2013. Based on current enrollment figures, a sample of the football tournament divisional enrollment ranges when adding a seventh division would be (again, keeping in mind that this will change before the 2013 season): Division I – 600 to 1,164; Division II – 410 to 599; Division III – 288 to 409; Division IV – 216 to 287; Division V – 159 to 215; Division VI – 114 to 158, and Division VII – 30 to 111. The current football tournament divisional enrollment ranges, which run through through 2012, are: Division I – 494 to 1,164; Division II – 327 to 493; Division III – 243 to 326; Division IV – 172 to 242; Division V – 120 to 171, and Division VI – 30 to 119.
  This is the first time the OHSAA has expanded the number of football tournament divisions since 1994, when a sixth division was added. Five years later, the number of tournament qualifiers in each division expanded from 16 to 32. When the tournament first began in 1972, there were three football tournament divisions, and expansion to five divisions occurred in 1980.
• RedRider1

  

  That's crap...
  
  So this new Division 1 will qualify 45% of it's teams (32 of 72) for the playoffs, while the rest of the divisions will only qualify 30% (32 of 108).
• 1_beast

  

  OQB;1142623 wrote:interesting...doesn't really do much for the other issue though.

  
  agreed
  

  RedRider1;1142729 wrote:That's crap...
  
  So this new Division 1 will qualify 45% of it's teams (32 of 72) for the playoffs, while the rest of the divisions will only qualify 30% (32 of 108).

  agreed
• Al Bundy

  RedRider1;1142699 wrote:The next two-year cycle for reassigning schools to tournament divisions begins in the fall of 2013. Based on current enrollment figures, a sample of the football tournament divisional enrollment ranges when adding a seventh division would be (again, keeping in mind that this will change before the 2013 season): Division I – 600 to 1,164; Division II – 410 to 599; Division III – 288 to 409; Division IV – 216 to 287; Division V – 159 to 215; Division VI – 114 to 158, and Division VII – 30 to 111. The current football tournament divisional enrollment ranges, which run through through 2012, are: Division I – 494 to 1,164; Division II – 327 to 493; Division III – 243 to 326; Division IV – 172 to 242; Division V – 120 to 171, and Division VI – 30 to 119.

  So in D6 it is ok for a school to have 4 times as many kids to draw from as other D6 schools, but in D1 it is a problem because another school has twice as many?
• NWIndianNation01

  

  RedRider1;1142729 wrote:That's crap...
  
  So this new Division 1 will qualify 45% of it's teams (32 of 72) for the playoffs, while the rest of the divisions will only qualify 30% (32 of 108).

  Why is that crap? Or rather, why do you care? Doesn't change anything for you...haha
• 1_beast

  

  NWIndianNation01;1142967 wrote:Why is that crap? Or rather, why do you care? Doesn't change anything for you...haha

  UMMM 45% > 30% (general math).
  
  OHSAA fixed a problem with #'s at the top but did nothing to address the REAL issues with the competitve balance, and we all know what that is.
  
  YOU at NW, are in the same situation as DII-DV...(DIV has weird off balance #'s the same as D-I, just not as severe)
• OQB

  

  imo, this didn't fix a thing...and in most cases gives those big Division I schools a better shot at winning a title.
  
  
  go figure, it's the OHSAA....who worships the division I and all private schools. :rolleyes:
• Sykotyk

  

  If they're going for parity, it needs to be a bell curve.
  
  D1 and D7 would get 10% each. D2 and D6 would get 13.333% each. D3 and D5 would get 16.667%. And D4 would 20%. If enrollment disparity in divisions were that big of an issue.
  
  
  Anyway, as to scheduling. In Columbus, adding another game will not matter in the slightest. They will simply play four games on Saturday. Wisconsin already does this same setup on Thursday and Friday. In Stark County, they'd have to play either a game on Thursday night or cram four games into one day on Friday or Saturday. My guess, with attendance, is to combine two games at Fawcett on Saturday morning to avoid the cross-town travel three times in one day.
  
  For instance:
  
  Friday
  1100 game at PBTS
  1500 game at Fawcett
  1900 D2 game at PBTS
  Saturday
  0900 D7 game at Fawcett
  1145 D6 game at Fawcett
  1530 game at PBTS
  1930 D1 game at Fawcett
  
  It would move back the D1 game by about a half hour The doubleheader would have the second game kickoff about 15-20 minutes following the conclusion of the first game. With the two venues, you can't crunch the time down between the two venues for travel. Squeezes the usually 4 hour window to 3:45 from the first group to the PBTS game. Gives 2:45 for the first game.
  
  Not ideal, but I really don't think anyone wants to see a Thursday night game. At least with Friday, fans spending the night aren't missing another day's worth of work, or school, etc. And Sunday is probably a non-starter.
• holdingout

  If 7 divisions are better than 6, are 8 divisions better than 7? Where does it end? A watered down state football tournament is what it's going to become.
• Con_Alma

  Much ado about nothing. I agree with holdingout. Until they go to one division and one State champion there will always be schools who thinnk they are entitled to a better shot at a trophy than what's afforded to them already.
• Old Rider

  

  holdingout;1143223 wrote:If 7 divisions are better than 6, are 8 divisions better than 7? Where does it end? A watered down state football tournament is what it's going to become.

  It was officially watered down when they went to 8 qualifying teams per region instead of 4!
• Al Bundy

  Old Rider;1143259 wrote:It was officially watered down when they went to 8 qualifying teams per region instead of 4!

  I agree. Once the new format is in place we will have 224 teams qualify for the playoffs. Do we really want almost a 1/3 of the teams making the playoffs? How long until we expand them again? How long until we just let everyone in?
• Con_Alma

  The way I see it , everyone is in. It starts in week one. If you win, you keep playing.
  
  Although it's happened, it's unsual to find a school who goes 10-0 and not see them playing in week 11.
• Old Rider

  

  The other question is..What about the teams that play every year and now maybe that "other" team is no longer a D3 school or dropped from D4 to D5...does the opposing school want to keep playing a team that is now a division lower?
  
  For example: Orrville is currently D4, but with the new breakdown we could drop to D5. We play Canal Fulton Northwest every year in week 1. They are a D3 team that will remain D3 by the breakdown, but now a school that once was D4 on their schedule is now gonna be a D5...will they want to drop us? Its a great rivalry, but you have to compare "rivalry" vs "comp points" whats more important?
• thavoice

  Old Rider;1143259 wrote:It was officially watered down when they went to 8 qualifying teams per region instead of 4!

  I disagree with that notion. 5-8 seeds havent done too bad, with a fair amount of state champs coming from that bunch.
  I think adding more divisions waters a playoff down more than allowing more teams in the playoffs in a division.
  
  
  I think something had to be done to correct that disparity in DI. I am not a DI guy, I follow D4-D6 so it isnt like i am crying about my team not getting a shot in DI. To go up against schools that are just that much bigger than you really does make it ALMOST helpless. You almost need one of those once-in-a-lifetime DI college top recruit caliber guy to even compete if you are a small DI school.
  
  I am ok with some of the divisions not being totally equal in how many teams are competing.
  
  Is this the correct answer to fix DI? I dont know...but what else could be done there?
• thavoice

  Old Rider;1143459 wrote:The other question is..What about the teams that play every year and now maybe that "other" team is no longer a D3 school or dropped from D4 to D5...does the opposing school want to keep playing a team that is now a division lower?
  
  For example: Orrville is currently D4, but with the new breakdown we could drop to D5. We play Canal Fulton Northwest every year in week 1. They are a D3 team that will remain D3 by the breakdown, but now a school that once was D4 on their schedule is now gonna be a D5...will they want to drop us? Its a great rivalry, but you have to compare "rivalry" vs "comp points" whats more important?

  Will they drop ya? Depends. Does Orrville win a good number of games year in and year out? I havent really paid much attentiion to Orrville since they beat us in the finals in like '98 but I imagine if you guys win a good amount of games each year that CN would most definantly still play ya.
• dhs22p

  

  I wonder how the computer points will be changed? Will D7 be worth 3.0 now?
• Lockup Screen

  Old Rider;1143459 wrote:The other question is..What about the teams that play every year and now maybe that "other" team is no longer a D3 school or dropped from D4 to D5...does the opposing school want to keep playing a team that is now a division lower?
  
  For example: Orrville is currently D4, but with the new breakdown we could drop to D5. We play Canal Fulton Northwest every year in week 1. They are a D3 team that will remain D3 by the breakdown, but now a school that once was D4 on their schedule is now gonna be a D5...will they want to drop us? Its a great rivalry, but you have to compare "rivalry" vs "comp points" whats more important?

  Actually Old Rider, with this new format NW currently has an enrollment at 279. Which would consider us be D4. I also believe that the current middle school is very small so It looks like with the new breakdown, NW will be d4 for a few years. I don't see us ever dropping you. There is a mutual respect between both schools especially after the whole levy debacle here and you guys were very patient and wanting to play us when we didnt think we would have a team. Unlike other schools, you WANTED us.
• holdingout

  I hope they add 8 divisions next year, and 9 the year after that.