Ohio Chatter DEV

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote: And actually I don't agree that Andy is the better player. But playing along side LeBron, Andy is better than Jamison.

You cannot be serious. You think PoonTawn is a better player than Andy?

Come on Square...you're smarter than that.

SQ_Crazies

Yeah, unless Andy is playing along side LeBron.

You said Hickson was better than Jamison, which is laughable but alright. I love how you want to say he's more productive now--right after he gets asserted into the starting line up, his numbers go up and right as Jamison is trying to adjust to a new team. Convenient for you, but if you want to start comparing people on a day by day basis then I guess when someone like Brandon Jennings goes off for 55 then he's better than LeBron? Wrong. Jamison is head and shoulders above JJ right now--Hickson is still a 2nd year player. Personally, I think his ceiling is in the clouds somewhere, and I think he COULD be much better than Jamison ever was/will be. But that time isn't RIGHT NOW. It's not a fluke that he's so highly paid, that we "pawned" Z for him, that people think he puts us over the top. Hickson is a good ball player, but you're fooling yourself if you think he's that far along.

hoops23

This post is in no way meant to intrude on my colleague MoFlo’s excellent game preview work here at NumbersDont. He breaks down the opponent on an every-game basis. I’m merely here to add some views on a once great rivalry that has completely disappeared. And admittedly, it makes me a little sad… bear in mind that I have a very Cavs-centric view of the NBA as I lay out my thoughts on the once-proud Detroit Pistons:

Allow yourself to hop into Marty McFly’s DeLorean, crank that baby up to 88 mph, and set the destination time for May 9, 2006. Just don’t forget to pack enough plutonium for the return trip to 2010, unless you want to be stuck again in a Cavs world with Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Eric Snow (all starters at the time), Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble, Sasha Pavlovic, etc. Why May 9, 2006? Because that was the day the Detroit Pistons suffered the first crack in their championship armor. And very stealthily, it may have led to a series of events that got them to where they are today (21-40, 26.5 games behind the Cavs).

In the 2005-06 regular season the Detroit Pistons finished an NBA-best 64-18. It was their third straight 54+ win season. They were a sterling 37-4 at home, 27-10 on the road, and featured All-Stars Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, and Ben Wallace. They steamrolled the Bucks 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs and were fully expected to dispatch the young and inexperienced Cavaliers (50-32, and 14 games behind the Pistons in the Central) on their way to their fourth NBA title. Everything was humming along smoothly for DEEEEEEEEEE-troit basketball.

The Pistons roared out of the gates in Game 1 of their Eastern Conference Semifinals series with the Cavs and coasted to a 113-86 win. Many of us concluded then and there that the series was over and the Pistons were bound for the Finals. And Game 2 was much of the same. Detroit held a commanding 75-60 lead heading into the fourth quarter at the Palace. Fans and players alike were yukking it up, led by the much-despised Rasheed Wallace. I remember at the time thinking that it would just be nice to win one game in the series and perhaps momentarily shut up Rasheed and the annoying Detroit fans.

Then something happened. I’m not sure exactly what it was, but something clicked for the Cavaliers. Maybe it was something Mike Brown pointed out defensively. Or maybe it was LeBron’s budding excellence itself that finally morphed the team into believing they belonged on the same court with Detroit. Whatever it was, something definitely happened. In a series in which the Cavs looked completely overmatched for 7 full quarters, they managed to outscore Detroit 31-19 in that fourth quarter. Big deal, right? The Pistons still won 97-91 and held an easy 2-0 lead in the series heading back to Cleveland. I’m sure they were just as confident as they ever were and still didn’t view the Cavs as much of a threat. But that was indeed when the first crack in their foundation appeared.

I don’t have to retell history here. The Cavs went on to win the next three games in the series, now brimming with newfound confidence and led by their young superstar LeBron James. I was so giddy at the time that I went on eBay and grossly overpaid for a pair of tickets in Loudville at the Q for Game 6, just so I could take my wife to see us do the impossible. But the mighty Pistons still had some life in them and squeaked out a victory (damn you Flip Murray and your one-handed rebound attempt!!!), then ultimately ended the series with an easy win in Detroit in Game 7.

But the damage was done. I insist that the scare the Cavs threw into Detroit is the sole reason that the Heat were able to topple Detroit in the Eastern Conference Finals that year. And Detroit returned the next year with the same cast of characters, didn’t have quite as strong a regular season (winning only 53 that year), and ultimately fell to the Cavs in the Eastern Conference Finals 4-2. They were done in this time by LeBron’s “Video Game James” performance in Game 5 (quite possibly still my all-time favorite game) and Rasheed’s meltdown in the deciding Game 6 in Cleveland. I was there for that Game 6 too and at the time I was reveling at the fact that we had finally killed the Pistons.

That playoff letdown for Detroit resulted in the exit of coach Larry Brown and the hiring of Flip Saunders. And we all knew that would lead to a nice regular season but a sure playoff misfire. And that has been the case for the Pistons. The death blow roster-wise was when they traded the heart and soul of their team in Chauncey Billups for the me-first Allen Iverson. That was a gamble that still puzzles me to this day. Not to pat myself on the back, but at the time I wrote this:

God, this is awesome!!! The Pistons just gave up two of their best locker room guys, their floor general and their undisputed leader in Billups for an aging me-first undersized scorer that plays no D. Not to mention the incredible weed-fest that will now be underway in the locker room with AI and Rasheed.

We’ll remember November 3, 2008 not as the day before the election, but rather the day the Cavaliers took over the role as perennial Central Division champs. YESSSSSSSSSS!!!

Since losing Billups, the Pistons have been a shadow of their former selves. The Cavs’ 4-0 sweep of them in the first round last year was shockingly swift until you look deeper into the demise of this franchise. And their wild spending on free agent acquisitions Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva will only serve to solidify the Pistons as bottom feeders in the East for that much longer.

Looking back on it all, I’m surprised to find that I do miss the rivalry. Is this how a Steeler fan feels when he ponders the Browns’ misfortunes over the last decade? I don’t know, but I do know there was once something special about attending a Cavs/Pistons matchup at the Q. Now it only means a Snuggie world record and a blowout win. Where have you gone DEEEEEEEEEE-troit basketball?

Edit: It’s been brought to my attention by a far wiser man than me (ND’s own RandolphKeys, a.k.a. “Securer of Interviews with the Stars”) that I completely neglected to mention the Darko pick by the Pistons in the LeBron draft. That was an obvious oversight on my part and I’m not sure how I glossed over that one. Sorry Piston fans, the hits keep coming.

http://numbersdont.com/?p=1492

dave

I miss the days I hated the Pistons as much as the Yankees. Hopefully they get back to their winning ways next year so they can renew the rivalry.

I see Z officially said he wants to return to the Cavs. I assume you guys already discussed that, but it's nice to see it official.

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote: Yeah, unless Andy is playing along side LeBron.

You said Hickson was better than Jamison, which is laughable but alright. I love how you want to say he's more productive now--right after he gets asserted into the starting line up, his numbers go up and right as Jamison is trying to adjust to a new team. Convenient for you, but if you want to start comparing people on a day by day basis then I guess when someone like Brandon Jennings goes off for 55 then he's better than LeBron? Wrong. Jamison is head and shoulders above JJ right now--Hickson is still a 2nd year player. Personally, I think his ceiling is in the clouds somewhere, and I think he COULD be much better than Jamison ever was/will be. But that time isn't RIGHT NOW. It's not a fluke that he's so highly paid, that we "pawned" Z for him, that people think he puts us over the top. Hickson is a good ball player, but you're fooling yourself if you think he's that far along.

No...I stand by my statement. Hickson is more productive than Jamison is RIGHT NOW. And if one equates productivity to value...as everyone should, then Hickson is a the better player.

At least with Hickson, one might have a viable debate. But as stated above, AV is head and shoulders above Jamison.

Inspite of what the Cav fans here on this blog site say, most basketball experts would agree with my opinion.

Enjoy the game Square.

SQ_Crazies

AV is not head and shoulders above Jamison. They're very different players as well. Look, I agree with your stance that they didn't need Jamison. On the top of my wish list was for them to stay put. That's before I realized they were going to get Jamison for nothing, so now I like the deal. But basically, I agree that we were good enough with Andy and JJ. But we're better with Jamison--more versatile, deeper, just plain better. Argue what you want, but Jamison is the best PF we have on this team. Basketball experts would certainly agree with me on this, but I suppose your list of basketball experts is a bit different than mine based on your opinions. Either way, no matter what you think Jamison is the best PF that we have. I still think that when you add LeBron into the equation, Andy is better because he has chemistry with LeBron like few duos in the league. But just comparing players, Jamison is our best 4.

Here is the bottom line, you can run around bitching and annoying EVERYONE for the rest of the season--having a pointless argument between 3 guys who are all going to contribute heavily in their own way, or you can drop it because your point is moot. We got him, he's playing, and no matter what you say that isn't going to change. So why not just drop this? Everyone knows where you stand in case this Jamison thing flops and we don't win a title, ok? My grandma knows where you stand. You've spread your message, now come back down off your high horse and add something to the discussion the way you used to. Because as far as I'm concerned, you're one of the more knowledgeable NBA/basketball minds around here, regardless of the fact that I disagree in this discussion. Let's just move on...

golf4life2008

Has Detroit missed a shot yet?

Midstate01

Wow cavs down 20. Cv does goosie after hitting a 3 and the pistons bench starts mocking the cavs picture routine. Maybe it'll wake us up.

Footwedge

Atta boy Andy...Atta boy DeLonte..way to pick up your teammate there.

Footwedge

Verajou doing his thing again. I love that guy.

Midstate01

Someone make a free throw!!!

Footwedge

AC...chill out bro....this is the NBA. Cavs will win this game....bank it. AC sounds like some of the cry babies around here.

Footwedge

JJ...you gotta finish.

golf4life2008

Wow... after the worst half all year the Cavs are only down 9pts. Thank god we came back. I was shocked at how bad our defense was until the final stretch in the 2nd quarter. Cavs need to come out hot in the second half!

Footwedge

LOL at Maxiel's bricks...and the King saying.."the ball don't lie".

osu99

hope Stuckey is okay.

Footwedge

Prayers to Rodney Stuckey...Good grief.

Footwedge

Cancel the game...reminds me of Chuck Hughes of the Lions 45 years ago.

THE4RINGZ