Browns Caught Cheating?
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rrfan
How about completely wasting your two first round draft picks from last year....sleeper;1703447 wrote:I think the team is fine right now but again its pretty apparent that the QB selection is poor at best. Manziel needs to go but I think this team is much closer to being relevant than we ever have been. Gordon being a POS doesn't help either. -
sleeper
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me, but it seems like you are. I have no confidence in the talent acquisition team in Cleveland. It's a joke.rrfan;1703455 wrote:How about completely wasting your two first round draft picks from last year.... -
BR1986FB
They REALLY need to hit on these two 1st rounders (assuming they don't lose picks) this year. It's early to call Gilbert a complete bust but their last three 1st round drafts (T-Rich/Weeden, Mingo, Gilbert/Manziel) have looked like complete failures as far as landing impact guys.sleeper;1703505 wrote:I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me, but it seems like you are. I have no confidence in the talent acquisition team in Cleveland. It's a joke. -
rrfan
Exactly this is a different team right now if you hit those draft picks. Even three out of four but very possible that all are a huge miss. Only one I have hope for is Gilbert and he is not close now. Mingo at least has played and that is about it.BR1986FB;1703614 wrote:They REALLY need to hit on these two 1st rounders (assuming they don't lose picks) this year. It's early to call Gilbert a complete bust but their last three 1st round drafts (T-Rich/Weeden, Mingo, Gilbert/Manziel) have looked like complete failures as far as landing impact guys. -
BR1986FB
It all begins and ends at QB though. Yeah, they may be able to swing some wins playing D and running the ball, with a game manager, but they won't go to the playoffs or win a SB without one.rrfan;1703632 wrote:Exactly this is a different team right now if you hit those draft picks. Even three out of four but very possible that all are a huge miss. Only one I have hope for is Gilbert and he is not close now. Mingo at least has played and that is about it. -
SportsAndLady
ThisBR1986FB;1703639 wrote:It all begins and ends at QB though. Yeah, they may be able to swing some wins playing D and running the ball, with a game manager, but they won't go to the playoffs or win a SB without one.
Get a fucking qb, keep building the lines, make the defense respectable. That's how you win in the NFL. -
BR1986FB
Agreed. Now you see why I'm so pissed ALL of the time now. I don't WANT them to make the playoffs. I want them to win the whole damn thing.SportsAndLady;1703643 wrote:This
Get a fucking qb, keep building the lines, make the defense respectable. That's how you win in the NFL.
Yes, keep building up the lines and play defense but until they have that QB, they're pissing in the wind. My issue is that I don't see that QB on the horizon.
And no, I'm not asking for a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady type as there are only about 4 or 5 "elite" QB's in the league but is it TOO much to ask for a Joe Flacco/Matt Stafford type? -
rrfan
Agree 100%. That QB is not out there right now. I know it is not Maziel. To many wasted picks...BR1986FB;1703645 wrote:Agreed. Now you see why I'm so pissed ALL of the time now. I don't WANT them to make the playoffs. I want them to win the whole damn thing.
Yes, keep building up the lines and play defense but until they have that QB, they're pissing in the wind. My issue is that I don't see that QB on the horizon.
And no, I'm not asking for a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady type as there are only about 4 or 5 "elite" QB's in the league but is it TOO much to ask for a Joe Flacco/Matt Stafford type? -
BR1986FB
You'd think by now they would've brought in a talented evaluator. Since 1999, the only "impact" 1st rounders I can recall are Joe Thomas, Alex Mack & Joe Haden (may have missed one or two). THREE players out of SIXTEEN drafts, and some of those had multiple 1st rounders. I tend to think that a blindfolded monkey throwing darts at names on a dartboard has better luck.rrfan;1703646 wrote:Agree 100%. That QB is not out there right now. I know it is not Maziel. To many wasted picks...
I've often thought "why couldn't they have come back in 1998 instead of 1999 and drafted Peyton Manning?" Then I come to the harsh realization that they would've probably selected Ryan Leaf. SMDH -
SportsAndLady
Now you Understand why last year I said to spend every first round pick we have on a QB until we find one lol
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rrfan
Problem is that I would not touch Winston (not that we could get him anyway) and don't believe Marcus is an NFL Franchise QB.
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lhslep134
They did. His name is Ray Farmer. The same guy who liked Bitonio, Kirksey, Crowell, West, etc. The same guy who wanted Bridgewater over Manziel, but the guy cutting checks wanted Manziel.BR1986FB;1703649 wrote:You'd think by now they would've brought in a talented evaluator. -
BR1986FB
And you know this last statement how? Looks like he missed on his top pick (Gilbert).lhslep134;1703717 wrote:They did. His name is Ray Farmer. The same guy who liked Bitonio, Kirksey, Crowell, West, etc. The same guy who wanted Bridgewater over Manziel, but the guy cutting checks wanted Manziel. -
lhslep134
1)BR1986FB;1703718 wrote:And you know this last statement how? Looks like he missed on his top pick (Gilbert).
2)BR1986FB;1703614 wrote:It's early to call Gilbert a complete bust .
We don't, but there is too much smoke to the belief that he preferred TB over JFF and when combined with Haslem's proclivity to meddling...
and 3)
The rest of the moves, combined with extracting a 1st from Buffalo, are more than enough to say he's a talented evaluator. -
BR1986FB1) if it's too early to call Gilbert a bust, it's too early to call Farmer a talented evaluator
2) then it's hearsay/assuming -
lhslep134
Which is also why it's absurd to be more negative now than in 2008/2009. We finally have a guy who knows how to get guys his coaching staff can work with. We have more team talent than at any point since '99 and it's not particularly close.
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lhslep134
BR1986FB;1703726 wrote:1) if it's too early to call Gilbert a bust, it's too early to call Farmer a talented evaluator
"It's too early to call a rookie playing the 2nd hardest position for rookies a bust, therefore it's too early to call a guy who brings in rookies and free agents and evaluates the whole team when making signings and cuts a good talent evaluator, despite the fact we're clearly more talented than we were last year"
Because evaluating a rookie CB and a GM are exactly the same...
Nice logic bro! -
BR1986FB
As I recall, quite a few people thought Savage & Heckert were good talent evaluators also, "bro." Way too early to dub Farmer some kind of talent evaluating guru.lhslep134;1703731 wrote:"It's too early to call a rookie playing the 2nd hardest position for rookies a bust, therefore it's too early to call a guy who brings in rookies and free agents and evaluates the whole team when making signings and cuts a good talent evaluator, despite the fact we're clearly more talented than we were last year"
Because evaluating a rookie CB and a GM are exactly the same...
Nice logic bro! -
Laley23
Not to mention, Farmer has a much longer track record (albeit not in the direct GM role). He had a significant hand in building up he Chiefs...they went for a complete rebuild in 2008, and 2 years later had like 7 Pro Bowlers. I'm extremely impressed with Farmer. -
lhslep134
I would love to hear how this is relevant to my point about Ray Farmer.BR1986FB;1703740 wrote:As I recall, quite a few people thought Savage & Heckert were good talent evaluators also, "bro."
Also BR Farmer was a stud at evaluating talent in Kansas City. He has a track record and he already has the Browns more talented than they were before he took over.
But yeah, it's too early to call him talented... -
sleeper
I like the talent on this team but I don't like our QBs. If we rated this team on QBs since 1999, I would give us an F or a zero whichever is lower.
We need to cut Manziel or trade him for a bag of chips. Maybe we can swindle Al Davis into trading a 2nd rounder for him. -
BR1986FB
Plenty of relevance. You're coming across like Farmer is some kind of personnel "savior' like many thought Savage & Heckert were. Both Savage & Farmer failed in the end.lhslep134;1703746 wrote:I would love to hear the relevance of this to my point. I'll save you time: there is none.
Just like it was too early to crown Savage & Heckert, it's too early to crown Farmer. Savage & Heckert were integral parts of Baltimore & Philly's success and they looked good, initially, for the Browns. Then it went downhill. I'd like to see a track record HERE before thinking Farmer is all that. -
lhslep134
It would be relevant if it was ME who said Savage and Heckert were good. Then you could say I prematurely called them good and that I was prematurely calling Farmer good. That would be relevant. Except that's not what happened here. At all.BR1986FB;1703753 wrote:Plenty of relevance. You're coming across like Farmer is some kind of personnel "savior' like many thought Savage & Heckert were. Both Savage & Farmer failed in the end.
I never claimed Heckert or Savage to be good talent evaluators. What other people said about them in the past has ZERO relevance to what I'm saying about Farmer now. That would be juxtaposing what they said for what I said, a logical fallacy. -
thavoice
Doubt Al Davis will make any sort of deal with the browns..............sleeper;1703748 wrote:I like the talent on this team but I don't like our QBs. If we rated this team on QBs since 1999, I would give us an F or a zero whichever is lower.
We need to cut Manziel or trade him for a bag of chips. Maybe we can swindle Al Davis into trading a 2nd rounder for him.
I think thew hole AFC north will be in for a rude awakening next year with the schedule. -
BR1986FB
I've thought that 9-7 might win the division. AFC North could flipflop with the NFC South as the crappiest division in football, record-wise. The North benefitted greatly from a patsy schedule in 2014.thavoice;1703764 wrote:Doubt Al Davis will make any sort of deal with the browns..............
I think thew hole AFC north will be in for a rude awakening next year with the schedule.