Cleveland Indians (50-48) at Minnesota Twins (44-53) - Series Thread

• Crimson streak

  

  lindor getting called up to aaa to me means we will see his mlb debut this year at some point. And could be with in a few weeks
• Laley23

  

  TBone14;1637843 wrote:I don't understand the hate for Asdrubal either. Defensively, he hasn't had a great year. I'll give you that. Offensively, not spectacular but he hasn't been bad.
  
  He leads all AL shortstops in home runs (9). He is 3rd in RBI (39) behind Aybar (50) and Ramirez (42). He also leads in runs (52-tied with Reyes).
  
  If he doesn't miss time due to leaving the game yesterday and stays healthy, he will end up around 15-18 HRs, 70 RBI and around 90 runs coming out of the 2 hole.

  My issue is he goes 12/16 and piles up all the stats during a 4 game winning streak...not bad at all, take the runs and production whenever it comes. But he follows that up with 4/34s. He is so inconsistent, which means our team is inconsistent because he is hitting 2nd. He isnt the only guy, but he is the only guy we can trade and have a replacement to be excited about. I dont want a guy stuck in the 2-hole the last week of the season where you give away outs (and probably quick, terrible AB outs). If he is slumping, you know its an 0/4.
• Mulva

  

  Check his numbers with RISP. Particularly with 2 outs. He's terrible in the clutch.
• Laley23

  

  Mulva;1637849 wrote:Check his numbers with RISP. Particularly with 2 outs. He's terrible in the clutch.

  Also this.
• Laley23

  

  Mulva;1637849 wrote:Check his numbers with RISP. Particularly with 2 outs. He's terrible in the clutch.

  .183 with RISP
  .216 with any runner on
  .208 with 2-outs
  .070 2-out RISP
  .188 Late and close game
  .213 in tie game
  .226 I7-I9
  .232 1 run game
  .243 2/3 run game
  
  Just GROSS.
• TBone14

  

  Those numbers are considerably worse than I was expecting. Unreal.
• vball10set

  Laley23;1637721 wrote:Without doing any research, I would venture to say Shaw is one of the top 10 best 8th inning men in baseball.

  Based on what then?
• Laley23

  

  vball10set;1637875 wrote:Based on what then?

  A hunch.
  
  I watch a lot of baseball in the summer, and off the top of my head I cant name 10 better 8th inning men. So, I was just saying that without any research to back it up, my guess is he is on of the top 10. I wasnt going to say he is top 10 without knowing for sure, since it is just a perception I have gathered, so I prefaced it with admitting I didnt do any research to back that up.
• Heretic

  

  Laley23;1637878 wrote:A hunch.
  
  I watch a lot of baseball in the summer, and off the top of my head I cant name 10 better 8th inning men. So, I was just saying that without any research to back it up, my guess is he is on of the top 10. I wasnt going to say he is top 10 without knowing for sure, since it is just a perception I have gathered, so I prefaced it with admitting I didnt do any research to back that up.

  Well, that and the simple fact his stats show that he is generally very effective (meaning that if he isn't Top 10, it means the bigs are loaded with great 8th inning guys). Everyone has off days and when you're a late-inning reliever on a team that struggles to get deep starts from the majority of its rotation, odds are that you'll get used more than the average guy and that any fuck-up you make will be magnified due to the situation in which it happened.
• vball10set

  Laley23;1637878 wrote:A hunch.
  
  I watch a lot of baseball in the summer, and off the top of my head I cant name 10 better 8th inning men. So, I was just saying that without any research to back it up, my guess is he is on of the top 10. I wasnt going to say he is top 10 without knowing for sure, since it is just a perception I have gathered, so I prefaced it with admitting I didnt do any research to back that up.

  So this is simply your opinion...fair enough.
• HitsRus

  

  Druby is an average MLB player who has strengths and weaknesses. I think a lot of us expected more out of him especially after his contract extension.
  
  I think we suffer from Omar syndrome, and for a long time every SS we have we'll compare to him at least subconsciously....and they won't measure up.
  I never understood the hate for Jhonny Peralta either....another solid but average player. Peralta is hitting .255 with 14 homers and 44 RBis this year, which puts him as good as at least half our players this year. Guys like Peralta and Druby make up the core of most major league teams, and while we all hope and root for our prospects to turn into all stars, the truth is that most just become average or decent evryday players( if they don't 'bust' completely....in every way replaceable.
  
  That's why it doesn't make sense to get too high on upcoming prospects. A lot of people expected Danny Salazar to just move right into that "Ace ' role.... I'm telling you that we'll be fortunate if he develops into that at all....and I wouldn't be surprised if Justin Masterson beats him to it, if not with the Tribe, with someone else.
• Mulva

  

  Peralta had no range. The only reason he had any value as a SS was because of his bat, which was only impressive because he was playing out of position as a shortstop. It never really made sense to me.
• Laley23

  

  vball10set;1637886 wrote:So this is simply your opinion...fair enough.

  Well yes, but his #s also back up that assumption. Its not like I am saying Jon Axford is a top 7th inning man.
  
  Its an opinion based on watching and assuming that 10 8th inning guys dont have better numbers than what Shaw does.
• vball10set

  Laley23;1637909 wrote:Well yes, but his #s also back up that assumption. Its not like I am saying Jon Axford is a top 7th inning man.
  
  Its an opinion based on watching and assuming that 10 8th inning guys dont have better numbers than what Shaw does.

  
  Can you honestly say you've watched enough 8th inning guys pitch to make this assumption? I gave you the benefit of the doubt when offering your opinion, but there's no way in hell you've watched that many different teams play that many different games (through the 8th inning) to make this broad a based assumption. No way.
  
  If you're basing this solely on his numbers, then we need to get numbers from everyone else in the league to compare. However, if it's your opinion, then so be it. IMO he's not very good, that's all.
• Laley23

  

  vball10set;1637913 wrote:Can you honestly say you've watched enough 8th inning guys pitch to make this assumption? I gave you the benefit of the doubt when offering your opinion, but there's no way in hell you've watched that many different teams play that many different games (through the 8th inning) to make this broad a based assumption. No way.
  
  If you're basing this solely on his numbers, then we need to get numbers from everyone else in the league to compare. However, if it's your opinion, then so be it. IMO he's not very good, that's all.

  Im at work, so I will just go off the basic pitching stat...ERA (I might have time tonight to delve into Ks, BBs, inherited runners etc)
  
  He is 34th in the MLB in ERA (AFTER last night).
  
  When taking out closers (since we are only doing 8th inning guys), he is 27th.
  
  Taking out guys I know arent 8th inning pitchers, he is 14th.
  
  He is 14th in the MLB in Holds, and 11th best of those 15 in ERA.
  
  So, based on ERA, top 10 might be a bit to high, but he is right there.
• vball10set

  Laley23;1637926 wrote:Im at work, so I will just go off the basic pitching stat...ERA (I might have time tonight to delve into Ks, BBs, inherited runners etc)
  
  He is 34th in the MLB in ERA (AFTER last night).
  
  When taking out closers (since we are only doing 8th inning guys), he is 27th.
  
  Taking out guys I know arent 8th inning pitchers, he is 14th.
  
  He is 14th in the MLB in Holds, and 11th best of those 15 in ERA.
  
  So, based on ERA, top 10 might be a bit to high, but he is right there.

  Well done, Laley, well done...but it'll take more than that to change my mind...GO TRIBE!!!
• HitsRus

  

  Mulva;1637904 wrote:Peralta had no range. The only reason he had any value as a SS was because of his bat, which was only impressive because he was playing out of position as a shortstop. It never really made sense to me.

  Yeah...but what he could get to, he fielded flawlessly(unlike a lot of shortstops that make spectacular plays and then boot the routine ones). The other thing that peralta excelled at was durability. The guy does not get hurt. You can count on him being out there 145+ games a year. That means you don't have to replace him with a AAA player or your utility man while he mends on the DL. Just look at the Tigers and their fragile SS's they've had since they let him go....yeah, that hotshot they got from Boston sure is flashy....but he's not on the field.
• TBone14

  

  Tribe up 4-2 in the 8th. Salazar was good. Santana 3 for 3 with a homer and a couple runs. Swisher 2-3. Murph with 2 ribbies on a 2 run single and Aviles followed with a sac fly.
  
  Hopefully we can tack on another insurance run.
• Laley23

  

  Salazar was good, especially his offspeed stuff. If not for an awful inning where he walked the bases loaded, we mightve seen him get into the 7th instead of the 6th.
  
  But, thats been his life as a big leaguer. The huge positive? He got out of that inning unscathed.
• TBone14

  

  As requested, the Tribe tack on 4 in the 9th. Swisher and Santana with big nights.
• GOONx19

  

  
  
  Bizarro Cleveland. Everyone gets a hit but Brantley, Kipnis, and Chiz.
• HitsRus

  

  well played game all around.: thumbup:
• vball10set

  Laley23;1638045 wrote:Salazar was good, especially his offspeed stuff. If not for an awful inning where he walked the bases loaded, we mightve seen him get into the 7th instead of the 6th.

  Once he learns how to work the corners, he's going to be good...really good.
• HitsRus

  

  No doubt the guy has good stuff....but so does Carlos Carrasco. Obviously still some development that needs to happen, but that was a positive outing.
• vball10set

  HitsRus;1638091 wrote:No doubt the guy has good stuff....but so does Carlos Carrasco. Obviously still some development that needs to happen, but that was a positive outing.

  
  I agree. If we can let these kids develop and not trade them for unproven or over aged talent, we'll be in good shape for the next few years. The future looks bright.