PED's in football vs Baseball

• thavoice

  As others have said, why do people not seem to care about it in football as much as people do in baseball? My personal opinion is because in baseball pretty much everyone is graded on similar type of things and it is such a numbers game. Average, HR, RBI's, SLG, etc. In football most of the positions don't really have any stat that people care about. What say you
• BR1986FB

  I don't care about it in either sport. IMO, the game was more interesting when the nation was following the McGwire/Sosa HR chase. The same people who applauded them, chastised them when they found out they were dirty. I really don't care if they use in either sport.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  I think you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't really give you that much of a competitive advantage in football, over everyone else.
• like_that

  

  ernest_t_bass;1485773 wrote:I think you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't really give you that much of a competitive advantage in football, over everyone else.

  LOL, this couldn't be any more wrong.
• BR1986FB

  The biggest "advantage" PED's give a player in baseball is recovery. 162 game seasons take their toll, obviously.
  
  It's not going to make a .220 hitter a .300 hitter. If a hitter has a hole in his swing, PED's won't fix it. It will allow closers to finish out games 3-4 games in a row without much of a dropoff in their stuff. Might also help a notorious warning track out hitter hit a few more HR's.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  like_that;1485796 wrote:LOL, this couldn't be any more wrong.

  I didn't like it when I typed it, b/c I didn't think it sounded the way I wanted it to. I think it gives you more of a noticeable (stat-wise) advantage in baseball, like voice posted. It will obviously give you an advantage in football, but I don't see it as giving you the type of advantage that will make you just murder everyone that lines up across from you.
• HitsRus

  

  Might also help a notorious warning track out hitter hit a few more HR's.

  Might? LOL. guys that maybe would hit 40 HRs hit 65+. Guys that hit 15 or 20 are hitting 40. More uumph on a ground ball, the better chance it finds a hole. Then there is the issue of intentional walks. The whole game is altered and bastardized because a few guys are cheating. They won't let Pete Rose anywhere near baseball for compromising the integrity of the game, but they'll only slap the wrist of guys who are really messing with it. 50 game suspensions are a wrist slap to guys who use PEDs to land multi-million dollar contracts based on pumped up stats. Forget the suspensions...void the contracts in entirety and/or ban them from the game for CHEATING.
  
  I don't buy the arguement "let them use" who cares....because if you allow that, then guys will have to use a dangerous substance just to be competitive....and that will filter down into the marginal players and minor leaguers who are just trying to hang on, not to mention wannabe kids chasing a major league dream.
  
  Cheats are cheats. they should be dealt with severely and without leniency.
• BR1986FB

  HitsRus;1485830 wrote:Might? LOL. guys that maybe would hit 40 HRs hit 65+. Guys that hit 15 or 20 are hitting 40. More uumph on a ground ball, the better chance it finds a hole. Then there is the issue of intentional walks. The whole game is altered and bastardized because a few guys are cheating. They won't let Pete Rose anywhere near baseball for compromising the integrity of the game, but they'll only slap the wrist of guys who are really messing with it. 50 game suspensions are a wrist slap to guys who use PEDs to land multi-million dollar contracts based on pumped up stats. Forget the suspensions...void the contracts in entirety and/or ban them from the game for CHEATING.
  
  I don't buy the arguement "let them use" who cares....because if you allow that, then guys will have to use a dangerous substance just to be competitive....and that will filter down into the marginal players and minor leaguers who are just trying to hang on, not to mention wannabe kids chasing a major league dream.
  
  Cheats are cheats. they should be dealt with severely and without leniency.

  I'm not a "purist" so I really don't give a shit.
• HitsRus

  

  I'm not a "purist" so I really don't give a ****.

  Yeah, what the hell if that 17 year old all state football player is 'roiding trying to get a D1 scholarship....not my son.
• WebFire

  Football is a contact sport, with constant action. Guys on PEDs aren't as noticeable on every play. Baseball is more of a finesse sport, and I think people appreciate the pure talent moreso than football. As stated, I think baseball is more affected by it than football.
• BR1986FB

  HitsRus;1485837 wrote:Yeah, what the hell if that 17 year old all state football player is 'roiding trying to get a D1 scholarship....not my son.

  Who is talking about high school football here? This is a comparison of MLB versus NFL.
• thavoice

  HitsRus;1485830 wrote:Might? LOL. guys that maybe would hit 40 HRs hit 65+. Guys that hit 15 or 20 are hitting 40. More uumph on a ground ball, the better chance it finds a hole. Then there is the issue of intentional walks. The whole game is altered and bastardized because a few guys are cheating. They won't let Pete Rose anywhere near baseball for compromising the integrity of the game, but they'll only slap the wrist of guys who are really messing with it. 50 game suspensions are a wrist slap to guys who use PEDs to land multi-million dollar contracts based on pumped up stats. Forget the suspensions...void the contracts in entirety and/or ban them from the game for CHEATING.
  
  I don't buy the arguement "let them use" who cares....because if you allow that, then guys will have to use a dangerous substance just to be competitive....and that will filter down into the marginal players and minor leaguers who are just trying to hang on, not to mention wannabe kids chasing a major league dream.
  
  Cheats are cheats. they should be dealt with severely and without leniency.

  Very well will see that in future contracts, if not already. Just think of how many careers it has ruined of legit guys. How many players got beat out by someone who was using? Read an article about it a few days ago where someone on that list won the last spot on the team a few years ago to a guy. We always look at the top players, but this also is on the lower end as well. Spots on big league rosters are sparse, and right now the min is over 400K. Even if it is the 25th man on the roster who beats out someone who is clean and he goes down and makes peanuts in the minors.
• HitsRus

  

  I don't care about it in either sport. IMO, the game was more interesting when the nation was following the McGwire/Sosa HR chase. The same people who applauded them, chastised them when they found out they were dirty. I really don't care if they use in either sport.

  That is what I was responding to. You also said that it might give some some 'warning track hitters' a few extra HRs. I don't agree with either assertion.
• BR1986FB

  HitsRus;1485848 wrote:That is what I was responding to. You also said that it might give some some 'warning track hitters' a few extra HRs. I don't agree with either assertion.

  But what does that have to do with high school football?
  
  I'm not saying that MLB players should or shouldn't use it but I really don't care if they do.
• thavoice

  BR1986FB;1485863 wrote:But what does that have to do with high school football?
  
  I'm not saying that MLB players should or shouldn't use it but I really don't care if they do.

  Think he meant that if it is OK for pros to use it, then it should be OK for them to use it.
• lhslep134

  

  I have no problem with anyone using PED's in football because it's a violent, contact sport.
  
  And I don't have a problem with PED's in baseball because they've been around for so long. Players using amphetamines in the 60's and 70's is no different than drug use today, just different drugs. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me to asterisk players/not vote them into the Hall for PED's when players who are already in used them.
  
  That being said, I also have no issue with MLB's current war on PED's. I'm all for eradication, but not the crucification of players like Clemens and Bonds.
• Fly4Fun

  

  lhslep134;1485884 wrote:I have no problem with anyone using PED's in football because it's a violent, contact sport.

  I don't understand why it being a violent, contact sport would make PED's okay?
  
  What's the reasoning you're using there?
  
  I would think that in a violent, contact sport something that gives a person an unfair and unnatural physical advantage over someone else would be just as bad if not worse simply because they would be going toe to toe. So you could possibly end up with more injuries (guys who are bigger and moving faster colliding more violently will lead to more ligament, bone, or even head injuries). Or a person would have an unfair advantage over the other thus undermining the competitive balance of the sport.
  
  That's how I see it at least. But I am genuinely curious what your reasoning is.
• thavoice

  Fly4Fun;1485895 wrote:I don't understand why it being a violent, contact sport would make PED's okay?
  
  What's the reasoning you're using there?
  
  I would think that in a violent, contact sport something that gives a person an unfair and unnatural physical advantage over someone else would be just as bad if not worse simply because they would be going toe to toe. So you could possibly end up with more injuries (guys who are bigger and moving faster colliding more violently will lead to more ligament, bone, or even head injuries). Or a person would have an unfair advantage over the other thus undermining the competitive balance of the sport.
  
  That's how I see it at least. But I am genuinely curious what your reasoning is.

  WTF is going on here......first time I think I have agreed with you. Ever.
• lhslep134

  

  Fly4Fun;1485895 wrote: But I am genuinely curious what your reasoning is.

  This
  

  Here's why I think many NFL fans don't care if players cheat, compared to baseball fans who appear insulted by every sultan-like swat. Let's say a baseball player can hit the ball to the warning track. Then he takes some acronym-y PED. Now he's hitting the ball over the fence. It's a conspicuous change in performance and a cherished statistic, the home run, is blatantly altered. But in football, if Montee Ball starts taking HGH, his 3-yard runs aren't automatically now 5-yard runs. It doesn't work that way. There's no football play you can angrily point a finger at and say — "That happened only because he was on PEDs!"

  
  
  from this article http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_23808443
  
  My first post was poorly worded. The above quote is why I feel like how I feel.
• like_that

  

  Fly4Fun;1485895 wrote:I don't understand why it being a violent, contact sport would make PED's okay?
  
  What's the reasoning you're using there?
  
  I would think that in a violent, contact sport something that gives a person an unfair and unnatural physical advantage over someone else would be just as bad if not worse simply because they would be going toe to toe. So you could possibly end up with more injuries (guys who are bigger and moving faster colliding more violently will lead to more ligament, bone, or even head injuries). Or a person would have an unfair advantage over the other thus undermining the competitive balance of the sport.
  
  That's how I see it at least. But I am genuinely curious what your reasoning is.

  Based on your posts I highly doubt you ever played a contact sport in your life. So, just to give you an idea, when I played football in HS alone, I had a hard time getting out of bed the next day after a game. Hell, I needed a that saturday and sunday to recover fully before heading back to practice on monday. I can't imagine how those NFL players feel after a game. Also feel badly for them on short weeks.
• HitsRus

  

  Think he meant that if it is OK for pros to use it, then it should be OK for them to use it.

  Close but not quite. More like if it becomes 'okay' for professionals, then all pro's are going to use it, and that means it's going to trickle down into the amateur wannabe ranks.
• Ironman92

  

  The biggest difference is golf. Mickelson is a fuckin cheater.
  
  /azu
• WebFire

  Fly4Fun;1485895 wrote:I don't understand why it being a violent, contact sport would make PED's okay?
  
  What's the reasoning you're using there?
  
  I would think that in a violent, contact sport something that gives a person an unfair and unnatural physical advantage over someone else would be just as bad if not worse simply because they would be going toe to toe. So you could possibly end up with more injuries (guys who are bigger and moving faster colliding more violently will lead to more ligament, bone, or even head injuries). Or a person would have an unfair advantage over the other thus undermining the competitive balance of the sport.
  
  That's how I see it at least. But I am genuinely curious what your reasoning is.

  Because the expectation for football is big, burly men crashing into each other at high speeds. I believe for that reason we do not see the impact of PEDs as much in football as baseball, which is a finesse sport.
• Azubuike24

  

  That comes from the perspective that all drugs, PED's and any other form of supplement or enhancement should be LEGAL. It's impossible to regulate it.
  
  I've still failed to see how taking a drug for a "genetic deficiency" as they will call it (more like a lifestyle choice) to keep him level with his counterparts is anything different than taking a drug to put you above your counterparts. Forget illegal PED's, there are substances that are legal for every one of us to buy/take that are illegal in professional sports. Why is that different than an Osteoperosis drug? Who's making those associations and determinations?
  
  Oh, and the person who said it matters less in football than baseball is delusional. Other than combat sports, I can't think of a more enhancing effect when applied to a sport. The only think PED's wouldn't help you with in football (or in any other combat or violent sport) would be the risk of an acute injury. In some instances, it may increase the likelihood as there are side effects involved and also some unbalanced strength gain (muscle developing greater strength that can't always be supported by tendons and ligaments).
• lhslep134

  

  Azubuike24;1486057 wrote: Oh, and the person who said it matters less in football than baseball is delusional.

  No one said that, so I guess that makes you the delusional one
  
  I posted the reason some people care less about its use in football than baseball, not that it matters less.