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Gay and Powell both test positive

  • Fly4Fun
    Tyson Gay (current American record holder) and Asafa Powell (former world record holder for Jamaica) both tested positive for a banned substance.

    Also, another 100m sprinter for Jamaica, female Sherone Simpson, tested positive for a banned substance.

    The 100 and 200m sprints have always been a magnet for trying to get tat slight edge, at what point does Usain Bolt's story start to look like Lance's.

    Lance, did unbelievably well beating those who are around him getting caught for cheating but not getting caught himself.

    Usain Bolt has been doing unbelievable things by repeating in consecutive Olympics in the 100m and 200m while shattering world records while his best competition is being caught for cheating with banned substances.

    I really wouldn't be shocked if it eventually comes out that Bolt was cheating. And I don't think most of the population would be shocked either.
  • Crimson streak
    Fly4Fun;1472491 wrote:Tyson Gay (current American record holder) and Asafa Powell (former world record holder for Jamaica) both tested positive for a banned substance.

    Also, another 100m sprinter for Jamaica, female Sherone Simpson, tested positive for a banned substance.

    The 100 and 200m sprints have always been a magnet for trying to get tat slight edge, at what point does Usain Bolt's story start to look like Lance's.

    Lance, did unbelievably well beating those who are around him getting caught for cheating but not getting caught himself.

    Usain Bolt has been doing unbelievable things by repeating in consecutive Olympics in the 100m and 200m while shattering world records while his best competition is being caught for cheating with banned substances.

    I really wouldn't be shocked if it eventually comes out that Bolt was cheating. And I don't think most of the population would be shocked either.

    Bolt really isn't that built of a guy like the others are. The guy has those long strides that covers way more distance than anyone else in the world. I honestly don't think he has cheated. He's just a freak
  • xKoToVxSyNdRoMe
    I think people are past the point of being shocked when anyone tests positive regardless of who it is. Pretty much any great performance is going to bring steroid rumors. In Bolts defense, he has been crushing people all his life, so it's not as if he came out of nowhere or sucked then magically improved.
  • Azubuike24
    Usain Bolt snatches and clean & jerks. And squats.

    It's proven that weightlifters are by far the most explosive and powerful athletes on the planet. Even your common weightlifter is putting out more power and speed at the start of a sprint than any sprinter. Combine this with Bolt's other physical advantages (longer legs, less strides/meter), that's why he is the best.

    I'm not saying he's for sure 100% clean, but I'd also venture to say that he does stuff others don't do. I know up until the 2004 Olympic games, weightlifting was not at all used in track & field coaching. I'd imagine many of the same coaches and proteges who learned from that group are doing things in a similar way today. Its a mistake to ignore it.
  • Pick6
    Azubuike24;1472514 wrote:Usain Bolt snatches and clean & jerks. And squats.

    It's proven that weightlifters are by far the most explosive and powerful athletes on the planet. Even your common weightlifter is putting out more power and speed at the start of a sprint than any sprinter. Combine this with Bolt's other physical advantages (longer legs, less strides/meter), that's why he is the best.

    I'm not saying he's for sure 100% clean, but I'd also venture to say that he does stuff others don't do. I know up until the 2004 Olympic games, weightlifting was not at all used in track & field coaching. I'd imagine many of the same coaches and proteges who learned from that group are doing things in a similar way today. Its a mistake to ignore it.
    I assumed all sprinters did some sort of weight training.
  • Fly4Fun
    Azubuike24;1472514 wrote:Usain Bolt snatches and clean & jerks. And squats.

    It's proven that weightlifters are by far the most explosive and powerful athletes on the planet. Even your common weightlifter is putting out more power and speed at the start of a sprint than any sprinter. Combine this with Bolt's other physical advantages (longer legs, less strides/meter), that's why he is the best.

    I'm not saying he's for sure 100% clean, but I'd also venture to say that he does stuff others don't do. I know up until the 2004 Olympic games, weightlifting was not at all used in track & field coaching. I'd imagine many of the same coaches and proteges who learned from that group are doing things in a similar way today. Its a mistake to ignore it.
    I really find it hard to believe that weightlifting was not at all used in track & field up until the 2004 Olympics. Granted, I don't personally know any coaches or athletes prior to that, but even on the high school level I had friends who were even non-sprinters such as Derek Hoye (400m and 800m) that were weightlifting specifically as part of their training (and this would be prior to 2004).
  • Con_Alma
    Azubuike24;1472514 wrote:... I know up until the 2004 Olympic games, weightlifting was not at all used in track & field coaching... .
    Huh???? You can't be serious.
  • Midstate01
    Pick6;1472517 wrote:I assumed all sprinters did some sort of weight training.

    They do and did. This is 100% false. I watched rob Meyers who was on the USA team radar follow their running and strength programs and he did A LOT of weights and he wasn't even a sprinter.
  • Tiernan
    [h=2]Gay and Powell both test positive[/h]I thought you were going to say for HIV.
  • sherm03
    Azubuike24;1472514 wrote:I know up until the 2004 Olympic games, weightlifting was not at all used in track & field coaching.
    LOL! Glad Michael Johnson wasn't doing any type of weight training. Would have been crazy to see what that dude looked like if he WAS doing weight training. /sarcasm

  • Azubuike24
    You guys are missing the key word. WEIGHTLIFTING. We're not talking "lifting weights." We're talking the snatch and clean and jerk specifically. We're talking these lifts for max weights. Michael Johnson was notorious for doing heavy, heavy squats. He is reported to have been able to do 600 lb back squats for triples. I'm not so sure he was doing the Olympic lifts though.

    Let me ask you this? How many of you guys played football in high school? How many of you had a "strength coach", or even any coaches who could properly teach these lifts? I'll tell you this. From what I've seen (and heard), I tend to ask people this question when talking about this subject...very, very few do the full lifts. They might do powers, or moderate weight, but most seem to just avoid it because it's "dangerous."

    Again, I'm not just talking about half-assing the lifts or doing them once every week or 2. I'm talking about 2-4 times a week, heavy, heavy weight and doing the full lifts. When doing triples, doubles or even just singles, you can incorporate these in with very, very little needed recovery and little tax on the central nervous system. You have some of these same coaches who won't do weightlifting, but will max out dead lifts and bench press on a regular basis. Now, I don't hate on powerlifting at all. I LOVE powerlifting. However, for an explosive athlete like a sprinter or even football player, it doesn't translate as great as people would think.
  • Azubuike24
    Fly4Fun;1472524 wrote:I really find it hard to believe that weightlifting was not at all used in track & field up until the 2004 Olympics. Granted, I don't personally know any coaches or athletes prior to that, but even on the high school level I had friends who were even non-sprinters such as Derek Hoye (400m and 800m) that were weightlifting specifically as part of their training (and this would be prior to 2004).
    Were they doing snatch/clean & jerk? Was he training at the USA T&F training center, or did he have a coach outside?
    Midstate01;1472530 wrote:They do and did. This is 100% false. I watched rob Meyers who was on the USA team radar follow their running and strength programs and he did A LOT of weights and he wasn't even a sprinter.
    Are you telling me the USA sprint coaching programs incorporate properly implemented, heavy snatch/clean & jerk routines? I'd wonder if you can find me how many of the prominent USA track & field coaches have Olympic weightlifting certifications. I'd venture to say that very, very few of them do.
    Con_Alma;1472526 wrote:Huh???? You can't be serious.
    I'm 100% serious. Is this all you're going to post?
  • Azubuike24
    ccrunner609;1472622 wrote:Bolt is dirty, Carl Lewis was dirty.........to say that these guys "don't look at certain way" so they must not be cheating.....steroids aren't going to blow you up if you don't let them.
    Judging someone on any PED usage strictly on looks is crazy. "Blowing up" wouldn't be at all a goal of a sprinter. It would be the exact opposite. The ability to train, like I discussed above, incorporating 14-21 training sessions a week and recover from all of that would be the key. Hell, if you know what you're doing, steroids aren't going to have any negative effects if you properly cycle and give your body some chance to maintain endogenous levels of hormones. It's a whole other topic, but it's one argument why this stuff should actually be legalized in athletics, but regulated on times and length of usage. If done right, you could have better performance, much less speculation and very few long-term health consequences.
  • Pick6
    Azubuike24;1472611 wrote:You guys are missing the key word. WEIGHTLIFTING. We're not talking "lifting weights." We're talking the snatch and clean and jerk specifically. We're talking these lifts for max weights. Michael Johnson was notorious for doing heavy, heavy squats. He is reported to have been able to do 600 lb back squats for triples. I'm not so sure he was doing the Olympic lifts though.

    Let me ask you this? How many of you guys played football in high school? How many of you had a "strength coach", or even any coaches who could properly teach these lifts? I'll tell you this. From what I've seen (and heard), I tend to ask people this question when talking about this subject...very, very few do the full lifts. They might do powers, or moderate weight, but most seem to just avoid it because it's "dangerous."

    Again, I'm not just talking about half-assing the lifts or doing them once every week or 2. I'm talking about 2-4 times a week, heavy, heavy weight and doing the full lifts. When doing triples, doubles or even just singles, you can incorporate these in with very, very little needed recovery and little tax on the central nervous system. You have some of these same coaches who won't do weightlifting, but will max out dead lifts and bench press on a regular basis. Now, I don't hate on powerlifting at all. I LOVE powerlifting. However, for an explosive athlete like a sprinter or even football player, it doesn't translate as great as people would think.
    a quick search reveals this guy was doing them in 03.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tomgreen.htm
  • Azubuike24
    My argument was more of that track athletes, especially sprinters, should be training WITH the Olympic weightlifters and CrossFit competitors. I'm not pretending to be an expert on track and field at all, but this stems more from my belief that anyone in any sport that requires quick bursts of power and speed, they should be all incorporating it. Unfortauntely, it seems like too many strength coaches out there either think it's risky (it's not, much less risky than something like the bench press if taught correctly) or they simply aren't comfortable teaching it, so they don't use it.

    BTW, I never said it wasn't used before 2004, just that it seems that was around the time when there was more and more awareness of it. It's definitely not used enough now anyway...
  • TedSheckler
    ccrunner609;1472622 wrote:Bolt is dirty, Carl Lewis was dirty.........to say that these guys "don't look at certain way" so they must not be cheating.....steroids aren't going to blow you up if you don't let them.

    Says the guy that thought or may still think Lance was clean, even after admitting to doping.
  • sportchampps
    When I was in high school in 02 all of our track athletes did strength training. Chris Arp was our strength coach and he's one of the best in the country (was offered the same position at Michigan). We did have a hell of a program though (reynoldsburg)
  • Con_Alma
    Azubuike24;1472632 wrote:...

    BTW, I never said it wasn't used before 2004,...
    Yes you did.
    Azubuike24;1472514 wrote:

    ... I know up until the 2004 Olympic games, weightlifting was not at all used in track & field coaching. ..
    Azubuike24;1472615 wrote:...
    I'm 100% serious. Is this all you're going to post?
    No.
  • Azubuike24
    sportchampps;1472647 wrote:When I was in high school in 02 all of our track athletes did strength training. Chris Arp was our strength coach and he's one of the best in the country (was offered the same position at Michigan). We did have a hell of a program though (reynoldsburg)
    I'd be curious to hear if they did full snatches especially?

    Con_Alma, on a large scale, meaning a standard part of a program. Like I had said, I am not experienced at all with first hand coaching knowledge of USA track & field, but have seen it in other programs where it would make sense to use, and it wasn't even considered.
  • thavoice
    Saw a special recently about the drug testing and such. I forget what country the Olympics was in that year but the facility was built closeby. The guy talked about how they kept all the samples and recently he thought maybe he should test them to see what they all got away with back then. It was a number of years ago and now with the testing being so much better and precise it is more difficult to get by. He chose not to, he just didn't want to know who was doing what. I wanna think maybe it was during the Carl Lewis years but I am not sure. Of course you are going to keep having guys do this. When you are dealing with FRACTIONS of seconds, tenths and hundreds of seconds, they are going to try whatever they can.
  • Con_Alma
    Azubuike24;1472690 wrote:I'd be curious to hear if they did full snatches especially?

    Con_Alma, on a large scale, meaning a standard part of a program. Like I had said, I am not experienced at all with first hand coaching knowledge of USA track & field, but have seen it in other programs where it would make sense to use, and it wasn't even considered.
    I only commented on your statement that "up until the 2004 Olympic games, weight lifting was not at all used in track and field coaching" followed by your statement, " I never said it wasn't used before 2004".

    Both are simply wrong.
  • thavoice
    Sorta like basketball and baseball when you all are arguing if lifting was used for sprinters back in the day. It used to be that baseball players didn't do intense lifting as the thought was your muscles would get too tight and you need the flexibility, similar to basketball. In the last 20-25 years you are seeing it more prevalent, just like in sprinting. Back in the day it may not have been as normal as it is today for runners to lift weights.
  • xKoToVxSyNdRoMe
    thavoice;1472752 wrote:Saw a special recently about the drug testing and such. I forget what country the Olympics was in that year but the facility was built closeby. The guy talked about how they kept all the samples and recently he thought maybe he should test them to see what they all got away with back then. It was a number of years ago and now with the testing being so much better and precise it is more difficult to get by. He chose not to, he just didn't want to know who was doing what. I wanna think maybe it was during the Carl Lewis years but I am not sure. Of course you are going to keep having guys do this. When you are dealing with FRACTIONS of seconds, tenths and hundreds of seconds, they are going to try whatever they can.
    That was from the ESPN 30 for 30 called "9.79"
  • thavoice
    xKoToVxSyNdRoMe;1472823 wrote:That was from the ESPN 30 for 30 called "9.79"
    Yep...that was it. Would be interesting to see what those tests would have turned up!
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    Prior to the Berlin wall being torn down, East Germany.....yeah. One of our German friends told us about a woman that was so pumped of hormones she turned into a guy. That could have been a joke, I'll see if I can find the story.