Ohio Chatter DEV

Classyposter58

ccrunner609;1391949 wrote:the DH doesnt allow for the strategy that having to have the pitcher up causes

Oh not strategy! Well I need to send my Tigers tickets back since they don't use enough strategy

Rotinaj

Classyposter58;1392436 wrote:Oh not strategy! Well I need to send my Tigers tickets back since they don't use enough strategy

I would too. They got lucky making the playoffs in the worst division in baseball.

karen lotz

Classyposter58;1392434 wrote:Uh yes? Why do you think baseball got so big in the 90s? Because players were hitting homers at an unbelievable pace. Also you act like the AL doesn't have base stealers or the hit and run. They just don't have to rely on it so much because of the DH

It got popular because people with short attention spans like you were enamored with the HR. It was good for baseball because it got more fans into the game, but that's about it.

And no, I didn't say the AL doesn't have those aspects. They are more prevalent in the NL, where manufacturing a run is more a part of the game than it is in the AL, which you said yourself in your last sentence.

Classyposter58

karen lotz;1392472 wrote:It got popular because people with short attention spans like you were enamored with the HR. It was good for baseball because it got more fans into the game, but that's about it.

And no, I didn't say the AL doesn't have those aspects. They are more prevalent in the NL, where manufacturing a run is more a part of the game than it is in the AL, which you said yourself in your last sentence.

Oh come on Babe Ruth became who he was because he hit so many, and Roger Maris would have had his own ESPN channel that year he broke the record. We all love the home run, and hitting in general. Why else do you think All-Star voting is almost entirely based on hitting

Classyposter58

Rotinaj;1392450 wrote:I would too. They got lucky making the playoffs in the worst division in baseball.

Remember when the Reds made it to the World Series last year...

Ironman92

Classyposter58;1392752 wrote:Remember when the Reds made it to the World Series last year...

No but I remember the Giants waxing someone....it was so lopsided I forget who it was though.

hasbeen

Classyposter58;1392751 wrote:Oh come on Babe Ruth became who he was because he hit so many, and Roger Maris would have had his own ESPN channel that year he broke the record. We all love the home run, and hitting in general. Why else do you think All-Star voting is almost entirely based on hitting

Using this shit as a defense of your stance isn't helping you.
Babe Ruth became who he was partly because of hitting HRs in the dead ball era and bigger parks. But also, his personality is a huge reason to why he is who he is.
And Maris probably wouldn't have gotten his own ESPN channel. Mantle might have, but not Maris. Rog was not considered a media favorite.
'We all' is a generalization. Personally, my favorite hit is a backside gap shot that ends up being a triple. For the casual fan, hitting is the only entertaining thing. Personally, I love watching how the catcher works. The defensive plays. The heads up plays they make throughout the game. Is the outfield moving, etc etc. But I know and understand the game. I can see why you prefer only watching homeruns though.
And using the All-Star vote being entirely about hitting falls right into karen's point about people with short attention spans.

ernest_t_bass

karen lotz;1392472 wrote:It got popular because people with short attention spans like you were enamored with the HR.

Fucking seriously, lotz. It is impossible to have a discussion/argument with you, without you throwing condescending shit in like the bolded above.

Do you realize that people have other opinions than you?

"you know a lot about sports."

Raw Dawgin' it

ernest_t_bass;1392825 wrote:Fucking seriously, lotz. It is impossible to have a discussion/argument with you, without you throwing condescending shit in like the bolded above.

Do you realize that people have other opinions than you?

"you know a lot about sports."

Wait, don't you know who Lotz really is?

Classyposter58

Ironman92;1392787 wrote:No but I remember the Giants waxing someone....it was so lopsided I forget who it was though.

:laugh:That one team from Detroit. Funny though I didn't see Cincy there when I was watching it

Classyposter58

hasbeen;1392822 wrote:Using this **** as a defense of your stance isn't helping you.
Babe Ruth became who he was partly because of hitting HRs in the dead ball era and bigger parks. But also, his personality is a huge reason to why he is who he is.
And Maris probably wouldn't have gotten his own ESPN channel. Mantle might have, but not Maris. Rog was not considered a media favorite.
'We all' is a generalization. Personally, my favorite hit is a backside gap shot that ends up being a triple. For the casual fan, hitting is the only entertaining thing. Personally, I love watching how the catcher works. The defensive plays. The heads up plays they make throughout the game. Is the outfield moving, etc etc. But I know and understand the game. I can see why you prefer only watching homeruns though.
And using the All-Star vote being entirely about hitting falls right into karen's point about people with short attention spans.

It doesn't matter that Maris wasn't well liked, the coverage around that chase was unreal. So many people wanted him to fall short of the record. But at the same time HR's are very exciting, I mean I've never sat there and just shrugged when my team hit a blast. I don't think it's about short attention spans, it's just slam dunks and one timers are awesome, just like home runs are

thavoice

I like the NL way of playing better. It s up the the pitchers to be more proficient with the bat to stay in the ball games.

I kicked around the idea of playing with NL ruls in AL parks and vice versa during IL play...that sound stupid?

ernest_t_bass

Per the NL/AL debate. I'm all for the NL way as well. I like the strategy involved in the NL, especially late in tight games.

Sonofanump

IMHO, if I were king of baseball, there would be 32 teams with an eastern and western breakdown with DH. 8 teams per conference, 8 teams total make playoffs, 4 division winners and 4 wild cards. Would need to add two teams to do this, Charlotte or Memphis in the south and a third team in the metro NYC area. No playoff games start after 8:30 EST.

Northeast

Boston Red Sox
New York Mets
New York Yankees
Baltimore Orioles
Washington Nationals
Philadelphia Phillies
Toronto Blue Jays
Expansion- NYC/NJ?

Great Lakes

Pittsburgh Pirates
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
Cincinnati Reds
Chicago White Sox
Chicago Cubs
Milwaukee Brewers
Minnesota Twins

South

Florida Marlins
Tampa Bay Rays
Atlanta Braves
Kansas City Royals
St. Louis Cardinals
Houston Astros
Texas Rangers
-Expansion NC/Tenn?

West

Seattle Mariners
San Francisco Giants
Oakland Athletics
Los Angeles Angels
Los Angeles Dodgers
San Diego Padres
Arizona Diamondbacks
Colorado Rockies

karen lotz

ernest_t_bass;1392825 wrote:Fucking seriously, lotz. It is impossible to have a discussion/argument with you, without you throwing condescending shit in like the bolded above.

Do you realize that people have other opinions than you?

"you know a lot about sports."

Sorry, I wasn't talking to you/about you. It seems someone else agrees with me. It wasn't meant to be condescending. That's who likes nothing but home runs, the younger fans who became fans around the time Sosa and McGwire were hitting 70 a year. I do realize people have differing opinions, do you?

thavoice

Sonofanump;1392949 wrote:IMHO, if I were king of baseball, there would be 32 teams with an eastern and western breakdown with DH. 8 teams per conference, 8 teams total make playoffs, 4 division winners and 4 wild cards. Would need to add two teams to do this, Charlotte or Memphis in the south and a third team in the metro NYC area. No playoff games start after 8:30 EST.

Northeast

Boston Red Sox

New York Mets

New York Yankees

Baltimore Orioles

Washington Nationals

Philadelphia Phillies

Toronto Blue Jays

Expansion- NYC/NJ?

Great Lakes

Pittsburgh Pirates

Cleveland Indians

Detroit Tigers

Cincinnati Reds

Chicago White Sox

Chicago Cubs

Milwaukee Brewers

Minnesota Twins

South

Florida Marlins

Tampa Bay Rays

Atlanta Braves

Kansas City Royals

St. Louis Cardinals

Houston Astros

Texas Rangers

-Expansion NC/Tenn?

West

Seattle Mariners

San Francisco Giants

Oakland Athletics

Los Angeles Angels

Los Angeles Dodgers

San Diego Padres

Arizona Diamondbacks

Colorado Rockies

There is some talk about realigning everything..making just NL and AL. Everyone plays the same schedule in your league and the only diff would be the IL games. Then they would take the top XX amount of teams.

I admit I like that formula. Balanced schedule..seems to make it more fair. A proposal of IL i think would be good is you have your rivalry series, and then match them up with teams in the other league who finished in same spot as yourself.

SUre..you would play some of your division rivals less, but I think overall it is good

Ironman92

Classyposter58;1392857 wrote::laugh:That one team from Detroit. Funny though I didn't see Cincy there when I was watching it

Well their manager fucking sucks in the playoffs and well.....

fan_from_texas

The esteemed Bill James pretty conclusively demonstrated that the DH adds strategy inasmuch as it frees the manager's hand, rather than forcing him into decisions. This has been discussed on here a handful of times over the years.

To the extent someone hates the DH because of purity reasons, I get that. But I'm a big fan of the. DH because it makes the AL much more strategic.

Rotinaj

I'm not an advocate of the Designated Hitter Rule; I'm only an advocate of seeing the truth and telling the truth. What the truth comes down to here is a question of in what does strategy reside? Does strategy exist in the act of bunting? If so the Designated Hitter Rule has reduced strategy. But if strategy exists in the decision about when a bunt should be used, then the DH rule has increased the differences of opinion which exist about that question, and thus increased strategy...[the research shows] that there is more of a difference of opinion, not less, in the American League. (The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract. Villard Books, New York. 1986. Page 260.)

Well that first sentence is interesting.

Classyposter58

Jim Leyland has stated multiple times that the NL is easy strategy. It's obvious what to do in situation

karen lotz

Classyposter58;1393691 wrote:Jim Leyland has stated multiple times that the NL is easy strategy. It's obvious what to do in situation

Were any of those multiple times last October when he was getting swept? He obviously struggled in a lot of situations.

fan_from_texas

Rotinaj;1393485 wrote:I'm not an advocate of the Designated Hitter Rule; I'm only an advocate of seeing the truth and telling the truth. What the truth comes down to here is a question of in what does strategy reside? Does strategy exist in the act of bunting? If so the Designated Hitter Rule has reduced strategy. But if strategy exists in the decision about when a bunt should be used, then the DH rule has increased the differences of opinion which exist about that question, and thus increased strategy...[the research shows] that there is more of a difference of opinion, not less, in the American League. (The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract. Villard Books, New York. 1986. Page 260.)

Well that first sentence is interesting.

Yes. There are lots of reasons to oppose the DH, but strategy isn't one of them.

Classyposter58

karen lotz;1393698 wrote:Were any of those multiple times last October when he was getting swept? He obviously struggled in a lot of situations.

No it was more like the Giants pitching was completely dominant. Hard to do to much when you hit .159

karen lotz

Classyposter58;1393714 wrote:No it was more like the Giants pitching was completely dominant. Hard to do to much when you hit .159

Right, which would have made it a perfect situation to try something like a bunt or hit and run, etc. Instead they wait for Delmon Young to hit a 3 run HR.

se-alum

Bottom of the 6th, your team is down 2-0, there's one out and a runner on 2nd, and the pitcher is due up. In the NL, the manager has to make the decision as to whether or not he should pull his pitcher, who is throwing well, to try to get the runs because the offense is struggling. This is not a decision that has to ever be made in the AL. There is no way there is more strategy if you use a DH. Yea, maybe you have to decide whether to bunt or not, but you still don't have the added decision of pulling a pitcher who has been throwing well.

Archive

Will MLB ever get one set of rules?