Tomlin's Onside Kick

• Footwedge

  The AM sports pundits are having a field day pounding the Steeler coach for his decision.
  
  I didn't see the play live, but saw it on Sports Center. That kick was actually a thing of beauty.
  
  GB had only 2 people defending against the surprise kick....and the Steelers executed by wiping them out.
  
  The idiot that ruined the perfectly struck ball was the guy who recovered it. All he had to do was get on the other side of the 40 to recover it.
  
  It was a great call, a great kick....and then you have an idiot who messed it all up.
  
  Kudos to coaches like Bellichek and Tomlin for playing the percentages...and winning Super Bowls for doing the right thing...inspite of what "the book" says.
• GoChiefs

  

  It ended up not changing the outcome of the game..but I'd say it was far beyond a great call. They gave GB excellent field position. Had GB won that game..nobody would be claiming it was a great call. They'd be doing the same..asking how he could possibly be so stupid to do something like that with the game on the line.
• jpake1

  

  I liked the play. I'm a big fan of the onside kick.. when you don't need it.
• Footwedge

  GoChiefs wrote: It ended up not changing the outcome of the game..but I'd say it was far beyond a great call. They gave GB excellent field position. Had GB won that game..nobody would be claiming it was a great call. They'd be doing the same..asking how he could possibly be so stupid to do something like that with the game on the line.

  Did you know that unexpected onside kicks work 60% of the time? It was a brilliant call...even though it backfired.
  
  http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/reviewing-steelers-decision-to-try-onside-kick/
• wes_mantooth

  

  Their defense was playing like garbage, so I don't think it was a bad call. It was on of those infamous calls where you look like either an idiot or the smartest man alive depending on the result.
• Footwedge

  On a different note...the Packer receiver should have taken a knee at the 1 yard line instead of scoring with 2:05. James-Drew executed this against the Jets...same scenario...game set match for the Jets.
• killer_ewok

  

  Footwedge wrote: The AM sports pundits are having a field day pounding the Steeler coach for his decision.
  
  I didn't see the play live, but saw it on Sports Center. That kick was actually a thing of beauty.
  
  GB had only 2 people defending against the surprise kick....and the Steelers executed by wiping them out.
  
  The idiot that ruined the perfectly struck ball was the guy who recovered it. All he had to do was get on the other side of the 40 to recover it.
  
  It was a great call, a great kick....and then you have an idiot who messed it all up.
  
  Kudos to coaches like Bellichek and Tomlin for playing the percentages...and winning Super Bowls for doing the right thing...inspite of what "the book" says.

  It's not every day that I agree with footwedge but he's spot on here. It was a great call IMO. Ike Taylor just needed to be a little more patient. Regardless, Green Bay scored and the Steelers actually had enough time left unlike most of their losses this season. Some are going on about what kind of message that sends to your defense. His job as Head Coach isn't to "send positive messages to his defense." His job is to win games and that's what his decision was based on yesterday. Great call.
• Ironman92

  

  The idea would've been better IF the special teams could ever execute anything.
  
  
  Also...the kick would not have been as successful had William Gay not fell down on the play Green Bay scored with 2:08 left......Ig Gay could not fall he would've made the tackly inside the 10....and it would've been a 2 minute warning. Pittsburgh had 1 TO left.
  
  If Green Bay runs the clock down for the FG there would've been around 30 seconds left and no timeouts for Pittsburgh...down by 1
• Heretic

  

  I had no problem with the call and really wanted to shoot Joe Buck and Troy Aikman for all the bleeting about it they did. The team's defense has been garbage for much of the year and beyond being garbage in the fourth quarter. If they kick it deep, Rodgers skewers their "D" and the Packers likely score with too little time for the Steelers to do anything.
  
  I will agree that Pittsburgh did get lucky because GB scored TOO quickly on the ensuing drive, but when they took the 30-28 lead in that game, I was about in the fetal position on the floor because I knew there was no way in hell the defense would stop the Packers and they'd lose either 31-30 or 35/6-30.
  
  Tomlin took a chance and it wound up paying off. People criticizing the move should look back at the box scores of the losses to KC and Oakland, where Matt Cassel and Bruce Gradkowski were both able to effortlessly move their teams down the field for easy late-game touchdowns against the Steelers. If those two could do that, Rodgers (with the receivers he has) could do so blindfolded while smoking a cig.
• devil1197

  Stupid call that would have worked if the guy didn't touch it.
  
  Very risky move that didn't pay off but the players bailed him out. If the Steelers don't drive the field, Tomlin would be crucified more than Bill B. did for his dumbass move.
• thavoice

  Tecmo bowl call.
  
  Thing is this.......in coaching this is what happens: There are times you make the sound, foundamental decision and it does not work out. At times you make a bizarre decision and it works out.
  
  I fully believe if they kicked it deep then GB scores with not enough time.
  
  It was gutsy, some call it stupid. Watched the game with the same 8-10 people I always do and many times we will disagree on certain aspects of decisions a coach/player makes. Immediately after the play it was odd....non of us really said we hated the decision. We all pretty much had the same thoughts...that now we will get the ball back with more time to score.
  
  IN other words....MT did a tecmo bowl type of decision.
  
  I agree...if it did not work out then everone is pissed at him. He woulda been villified and laughed outta town. They won...and most of the guys i have talked to thought the same thing........that it was bizarre but it was done becuause of the total lack of confidence in the defense.
• rock_knutne

  I'm torn on the call, MT's a genius if it works. My question is what in the hell is Ike Taylor doing on the hands team?
• Al Capone

  rock_knutne wrote: I'm torn on the call, MT's a genius if it works. My question is what in the hell is Ike Taylor doing on the hands team?

  That was my thinking also.LOL.
  
  Tomlin said that after 55 minutes of football he knew 2 things.
  
  1. Greenbay could not stop our offense
  2. We could not stop their offense
• Footwedge

  Ironman92 wrote: The idea would've been better IF the special teams could ever execute anything.
  
  
  Also...the kick would not have been as successful had William Gay not fell down on the play Green Bay scored with 2:08 left......Ig Gay could not fall he would've made the tackly inside the 10....and it would've been a 2 minute warning. Pittsburgh had 1 TO left.
  
  If Green Bay runs the clock down for the FG there would've been around 30 seconds left and no timeouts for Pittsburgh...down by 1

  This. Jennings should have known the situation and taken a knee at the one yard line. The Steelers would have taken their last TO just north of the 2 minute warning. First down...kneel down...clock stops at 2:00. Second down...kneel down...clock down to 1:15. On third down, they could try to punch it in. If successful, up 6 with 1:10 to play. If unsuccessful, then kick a 19 yard field goal to go up 1 point w/ 30 deconds to play.
  
  I'll take my chances with these 2 scenarious each and every time.
  
  On another side note...how do the Packers drop 8 man in the end zone, and only have single coverage on Wallace?
• Glory Days

  

  Footwedge wrote: On a different note...the Packer receiver should have taken a knee at the 1 yard line instead of scoring with 2:05. James-Drew executed this against the Jets...same scenario...game set match for the Jets.

  I disagree. if you have a chance to get the points you take them. you dont risk fumbling a snap or having the holder botch the FG attempt. the browns did it right, still scored, but took as much time as possible on the play to do it. the packer's defense, although not having their best game, had plenty of opportunities to stop the steelers on that last drive. if their linebacker doesnt have the stupid illegal contact penalty, packers get an interception and game over.
• Footwedge

  Glory Days wrote:

  Footwedge wrote: On a different note...the Packer receiver should have taken a knee at the 1 yard line instead of scoring with 2:05. James-Drew executed this against the Jets...same scenario...game set match for the Jets.

  I disagree. if you have a chance to get the points you take them. you dont risk fumbling a snap or having the holder botch the FG attempt. the browns did it right, still scored, but took as much time as possible on the play to do it. the packer's defense, although not having their best game, had plenty of opportunities to stop the steelers on that last drive. if their linebacker doesnt have the stupid illegal contact penalty, packers get an interception and game over.

  Glory Days....it's all about percentages. The Packers chances of winning would have gone wayyy up...had Jennings taken a knee. As for fumbling a snap on a kneel down play....I've never seen it happen in over 2 decades....not even one time. Is it possible to miss a 19 yard filed goal? Sure....about as often as missing an extra point. One in a hundred.
• Mr. 300

  

  I liked the call. Surprise attacks usually work, but just not this time. Their season was and still is on the brink of disaster, so Tomlin calling it was nice to see in a must win situation. You do what can give you the best chance to win, and he thought this would do it.
• David St. Hubbins

  

  Footwedge wrote:

  Glory Days wrote:

  Footwedge wrote: On a different note...the Packer receiver should have taken a knee at the 1 yard line instead of scoring with 2:05. James-Drew executed this against the Jets...same scenario...game set match for the Jets.

  I disagree. if you have a chance to get the points you take them. you dont risk fumbling a snap or having the holder botch the FG attempt. the browns did it right, still scored, but took as much time as possible on the play to do it. the packer's defense, although not having their best game, had plenty of opportunities to stop the steelers on that last drive. if their linebacker doesnt have the stupid illegal contact penalty, packers get an interception and game over.

  Glory Days....it's all about percentages. The Packers chances of winning would have gone wayyy up...had Jennings taken a knee. As for fumbling a snap on a kneel down play....I've never seen it happen in over 2 decades....not even one time. Is it possible to miss a 19 yard filed goal? Sure....about as often as missing an extra point. One in a hundred.

  You have to remember too that the Packers' kicker pretty much sucks. He had missed a mid-range field goal already in the game and had nearly pushed several xps wide left, so I could certainly see him missing a short one with the game on the line.
  
  I definitely think the onside was the right call. I think that is the message he should be sending to the defense, or at least the secondary: you fucking suck in the fourth quarter. Only thing is, why is Ike Taylor, notorious for dropping interceptions, on the hands team for an onside?
• mhs95_06

  The brilliance of the on-side kick call was that if it didn't work, the consequence wasn't that bad as GB couldn't make it a two score game, and whatever they were going to get done on that possession was going to get done earlier and leave more time for the Steelers. GB didn't see through that and didn't take the knee, and it cost them.
  
  I've always thought Tomlin's strategical calls have been very good. But the best way was to win ssuperbowls is to have a defense that can stop the opponent. Winning games with great strategy is good, but in the long run won't hold up as well as great defense.
• jordo212000

  

  ehh I don't like the call. Tomlin lucked out though. I can imagine what ESPN would have been like today if they would have lost
• kayo

  Footwedge wrote:Glory Days....it's all about percentages. The Packers chances of winning would have gone wayyy up...had Jennings taken a knee.

  I agree that it's all about percentages, and you accurately used such a percentage earlier (60% of unexpected onside kicks are successful) as an illustration. However, I'm not sure there have ever been studies done to compare the two scenarios you've presented: a) Up by 6 with 2 minutes and change left, or b) up by 1 (assuming a made FG) with 30-some seconds left.
  
  The Jones-Drew situation was different in that the Jaguars were able to drain the clock down to the end. I wouldn't have been too confident giving Roethlisberger 30 seconds to go - what? - maybe 40 yards.
• Footwedge

  kayo wrote:

  Footwedge wrote:Glory Days....it's all about percentages. The Packers chances of winning would have gone wayyy up...had Jennings taken a knee.

  I agree that it's all about percentages, and you accurately used such a percentage earlier (60% of unexpected onside kicks are successful) as an illustration. However, I'm not sure there have ever been studies done to compare the two scenarios you've presented: a) Up by 6 with 2 minutes and change left, or b) up by 1 (assuming a made FG) with 30-some seconds left.
  
  The Jones-Drew situation was different in that the Jaguars were able to drain the clock down to the end. I wouldn't have been too confident giving Roethlisberger 30 seconds to go - what? - maybe 40 yards.

  Your point is well taken. If you reread my post above...if Jennings takes a knee.....After 2 kneel downs....I think GB should have tried to run it in on 3rd down with 1:15 left. If they score 6, then Ben has 1:00 to go the length with no TO's. He barely made it with 2 minutes, and the one time out was crucial.
  
  If you don't score...then you run the clock down to 30 seconds. After the FG...they have 25 seconds, no TO's and have to go 35 yards or so. Highly unlikely, IMO.
  
  As for making the FG...NFL kickers hit extra points at a 98% clip.
• Glory Days

  

  Footwedge wrote:

  Glory Days wrote:

  Footwedge wrote: On a different note...the Packer receiver should have taken a knee at the 1 yard line instead of scoring with 2:05. James-Drew executed this against the Jets...same scenario...game set match for the Jets.

  I disagree. if you have a chance to get the points you take them. you dont risk fumbling a snap or having the holder botch the FG attempt. the browns did it right, still scored, but took as much time as possible on the play to do it. the packer's defense, although not having their best game, had plenty of opportunities to stop the steelers on that last drive. if their linebacker doesnt have the stupid illegal contact penalty, packers get an interception and game over.

  Glory Days....it's all about percentages. The Packers chances of winning would have gone wayyy up...had Jennings taken a knee. As for fumbling a snap on a kneel down play....I've never seen it happen in over 2 decades....not even one time. Is it possible to miss a 19 yard filed goal? Sure....about as often as missing an extra point. One in a hundred.

  haha wasn't Bill Cowher part of the Eagles game where they fumbled on a kneel down play and lost the game? they thought they had that game wrapped up too.
  

  Footwedge wrote: As for making the FG...NFL kickers hit extra points at a 98% clip.

  yeah...ask Shaun Suisham what its like to kick a 24 yard FG.
• sjmvsfscs08

  Fantastic call, almost brilliant.
• thavoice

  rock_knutne wrote: I'm torn on the call, MT's a genius if it works. My question is what in the hell is Ike Taylor doing on the hands team?

  Believe he is on the normal KO coverage team so that is why he is out there. On a surprise onside ya dont usually change personnel.
  
  I would be surprised if he was on the defensive hands team tho when they are expecting on onside.