Ohio Chatter DEV

ts1227

Footwedge;1229556 wrote:And people wonder why I pick on 23 year olds. LOL I suppose Eckersly wasn't a closer either.

No one wonders why. You're just a stereotypical Baby Boomer

Footwedge

Tribe is in the midst of a 28 game streak against teams with winning records. So far, they are a respectable 10-11 with 4 left with Baltimore and 3 with Detroit. A 14-14 record would actually be quite good...and is attainable in that the Birds have slumped.

We play the Twins 13 times and the Royals 10 I think the rest of the way.

Crimson streak

Footwedge;1229575 wrote:Tribe is in the midst of a 28 game streak against teams with winning records. So far, they are a respectable 10-11 with 4 left with Baltimore and 3 with Detroit. A 14-14 record would actually be quite good...and is attainable in that the Birds have slumped.

We play the Twins 13 times and the Royals 10 I think the rest of the way.

Ahh the twins. I love playing them. We usually play well against them

HitsRus

The Tribe has the easiest schedule remaining of any of the 'contending' teams.

Glory Days

Footwedge;1229567 wrote:And of course there was Bruce Sutter,,,pitching 3 inning saves for a decade.

yeah, for a decade....and 12 years total i believe. and he only converted 74% of his saves, Chris Perez blows that away. guess his arm didnt last too long did it?

Blown saves
Regular season
Career

Stats updated through 2007 season.[SUP][30][/SUP]

Rich "Goose" Gossage – 112
Rollie Fingers – 109
Jeff Reardon – 106
Lee Smith – 103
(tie) Bruce Sutter – 101
(tie) John Franco[SUP]L[/SUP] – 101
Sparky Lyle[SUP]L[/SUP] – 95
Roberto Hernández – 94
Gene Garber – 82
Kent Tekulve – 81

Funny how 3 of the top 5 people on the blown save list are people you jizz in your pants over.

Here is the stats for most blown saves in a season. any of those names ring a bell?

Single seasonStats updated through 2007 season.[SUP][31][/SUP]

(tie) Gerry Staley, Chicago White Sox (1960) – 14
(tie) Rollie Fingers, Oakland Athletics (1976) – 14
(tie) Bruce Sutter, Chicago Cubs (1978) – 14
(tie) Bob Stanley, Boston Red Sox (1983) – 14
(tie) Ron Davis, Minnesota Twins (1984) – 14
(tie) John Hiller[SUP]L[/SUP], Detroit Tigers (1976) – 13
(tie) Rich "Goose" Gossage, New York Yankees (1983) – 13
(tie) Jeff Reardon, Montréal Expos (1986) – 13
(tie) Dan Plesac[SUP]L[/SUP], Milwaukee Brewers (1987) – 13
(tie) Dave Righetti[SUP]L[/SUP], New York Yankees (1987) – 13

and if you want to go total saves, yeah all the people you listed have more than 300....but so are a bunch of other people who i have never heard of and who will never make the hall of fame.

Con_Alma

Footwedge;1229575 wrote:Tribe is in the midst of a 28 game streak against teams with winning records. So far, they are a respectable 10-11 ...

That's because they are a .500 team. I have been saying that since April. .500 teams are nice They don't win the World Series they're just nice.

like_that

Con_Alma;1229632 wrote:That's because they are a .500 team. I have been saying that since April. .500 teams are nice They don't win the World Series they're just nice.

So that's what you've been saying...

Footwedge

like_that;1229924 wrote:So that's what you've been saying...

Reputations.

Footwedge

Glory Days;1229614 wrote:yeah, for a decade....and 12 years total i believe. and he only converted 74% of his saves, Chris Perez blows that away. guess his arm didnt last too long did it?

Blown saves
Regular season
Career

Stats updated through 2007 season.[SUP][30][/SUP]

Rich "Goose" Gossage – 112

Rollie Fingers – 109

Jeff Reardon – 106

Lee Smith – 103

(tie) Bruce Sutter – 101

(tie) John Franco[SUP]L[/SUP] – 101

Sparky Lyle[SUP]L[/SUP] – 95

Roberto Hernández – 94

Gene Garber – 82

Kent Tekulve – 81

Funny how 3 of the top 5 people on the blown save list are people you jizz in your pants over.

Here is the stats for most blown saves in a season. any of those names ring a bell?

Single seasonStats updated through 2007 season.[SUP][31][/SUP]

(tie) Gerry Staley, Chicago White Sox (1960) – 14

(tie) Rollie Fingers, Oakland Athletics (1976) – 14

(tie) Bruce Sutter, Chicago Cubs (1978) – 14

(tie) Bob Stanley, Boston Red Sox (1983) – 14

(tie) Ron Davis, Minnesota Twins (1984) – 14

(tie) John Hiller[SUP]L[/SUP], Detroit Tigers (1976) – 13

(tie) Rich "Goose" Gossage, New York Yankees (1983) – 13

(tie) Jeff Reardon, Montréal Expos (1986) – 13

(tie) Dan Plesac[SUP]L[/SUP], Milwaukee Brewers (1987) – 13

(tie) Dave Righetti[SUP]L[/SUP], New York Yankees (1987) – 13

and if you want to go total saves, yeah all the people you listed have more than 300....but so are a bunch of other people who i have never heard of and who will never make the hall of fame.

So....a closer that pitches on average 2 innings a game will have the same percentage of blown saves as a pitcher of today that pitches only one inning. Gotcha. (where's the facepalm yellowball when you need it?)

Footwedge

Con_Alma;1229632 wrote:That's because they are a .500 team. I have been saying that since April. .500 teams are nice They don't win the World Series they're just nice.

They may be a 500 team. But a 500 team doesn't go 10-11 against a collection of teams that are all above 500. At least not if extrapolated over a large sample size.

My point is that going 10-11 over that stretch should show a team that has a high probability of going...let's say....14-7 against a collective set of sub 500 teams....to which the tribe has coming up.

BRF

I once met Dan Plesac. He was a teammate of Mike Birkbeck from Orrville when they were with the Brewers and served as his best man at his wedding.

Where's the "The More You Know" gif?

vball10set

BRF;1230109 wrote:I once met Dan Plesac. He was a teammate of Mike Birkbeck from Orrville when they were with the Brewers and served as his best man at his wedding.

Where's the "The More You Know" gif?

aaysr

BRF

Ha ha .... Nice!

Now find Footwedge's yellow face palm ball! Lol!

Glory Days

Footwedge;1230102 wrote:So....a closer that pitches on average 2 innings a game will have the same percentage of blown saves as a pitcher of today that pitches only one inning. Gotcha. (where's the facepalm yellowball when you need it?)

seriously, are you blind or just a stubborn old man? there isnt one modern player on that list. a closer that pitches 2 innings has a many more blown saves than one who pitches 1 inning. i dont know how many different stats i can show you to prove that.

Al Bundy

Glory Days;1230241 wrote:seriously, are you blind or just a stubborn old man? there isnt one modern player on that list. a closer that pitches 2 innings has a many more blown saves than one who pitches 1 inning. i dont know how many different stats i can show you to prove that.

If a team had a closer just go 1/3 of an inning, his save percentage would be even higher. Saves are one of the most meaningless stats in baseball.

Footwedge

Glory Days;1230241 wrote:seriously, are you blind or just a stubborn old man? there isnt one modern player on that list. a closer that pitches 2 innings has a many more blown saves than one who pitches 1 inning. i dont know how many different stats i can show you to prove that.

Isn't that what I've been saying?

You remind of Costello of "Who's on first". Very entertaining to me.

Glory Days

Footwedge;1230341 wrote:Isn't that what I've been saying?

You remind of Costello of "Who's on first". Very entertaining to me.

If that is what you have been saying, you are a friggen idiot. If that is what you are saying, why do you want relievers today to pitch more innings like they used to "back in the day" when it is a statistical disadvantage to do so?

Glory Days

Al Bundy;1230270 wrote:If a team had a closer just go 1/3 of an inning, his save percentage would be even higher. Saves are one of the most meaningless stats in baseball.

True, but there arent enough pitchers to do that. And i disagree a save is a meaningless stat. I have read the articles people have posted on here about it too. Look at the good teams, they all have a shut down closer. The tandom of pestano and perez are the only reasons the indians are still able to sniff first place.

Footwedge

Glory Days;1230375 wrote:If that is what you have been saying, you are a friggen idiot. If that is what you are saying, why do you want relievers today to pitch more innings like they used to "back in the day" when it is a statistical disadvantage to do so?

One last time...and then I am done with you, Slick. My argument is clear. I believe that in the past, managers using their best relief pitchers for more than one inning provided better results. I showed a pile of statistical evidence supporting my argument. You have shown nothing to support yours.

In today's world of push button technology and robotic thinking, baseball managers reduce the chances of their winning by conforming to today's status quo of "one inning closers". The stats I provided bore this out.

The ERA is one of the best determinants in rating pitchers. My point is that those that have the best ERA's, give your team the best opportunity to win. Pitching your best pitchers 2 innings instead of one is is simply....a no brainer....and the stats I posted....that you apparently can't read, is proof. Yesteryear's "best relief pitchers" averaged 2 innings plus...whereby today's relief pitchers don't. Yet the ERA's in comparing the 1 inning "closer" to the "2 inning closer" are very very close. If you can't understand the stats, then that is your problem.

If you want to continue the cherade in calling me names...knock yourself out. Life is short...and precious. I'm finished with you.

Footwedge

Glory Days;1230376 wrote:True, but there arent enough pitchers to do that. And i disagree a save is a meaningless stat. I have read the articles people have posted on here about it too. Look at the good teams, they all have a shut down closer. The tandom of pestano and perez are the only reasons the indians are still able to sniff first place.

Nobody is arguing the importance of closing games. But your innane posturing on a bogus theory is annoying. Having managers "stick to a closer" mentality cost the Indians a world championship in 97. People that have experience in watching the evolution of baseball managerial thinking know exatly what I am talking about. Now go punch your dog or something.

Footwedge

Glory Days;1230241 wrote:seriously, are you blind or just a stubborn old man? there isnt one modern player on that list. a closer that pitches 2 innings has a many more blown saves than one who pitches 1 inning. i dont know how many different stats i can show you to prove that.

OK...Maybe I'm not done with you.....yet. When it comes to math....you and the lawyer wannabe from Arizona have a tough time with math. Are you good at poetry? LOL.

Simple question here.

If your best relief pitcher (A) has an ERA of 2.5 and your second best pitcher (B) has an ERA of 3.5, from a mathematical standpoint, which will give you the best chance to win..??

You pitch....

8th inning pitcher A and ninth inning pitcher A or....

8th inning pitcher B and ninth inning pitcher A?

Also....factor in that over the past 40 years or so.......those that pitch 120 innings are just as effective (ERA wise) as those that pitch 60 innings per season.
...because the stat lines bear it out. Has nothing to do with blown saves....at all. Any doufas can figure out that 2 inning closers will have more blown saves than one inning closers.

Get your calculator out...it's as tough as my signature line is in finding the correct answer.

vball10set

and the slide continues...

Glory Days

Footwedge;1230381 wrote:One last time...and then I am done with you, Slick. My argument is clear. I believe that in the past, managers using their best relief pitchers for more than one inning provided better results. I showed a pile of statistical evidence supporting my argument. You have shown nothing to support yours.

In today's world of push button technology and robotic thinking, baseball managers reduce the chances of their winning by conforming to today's status quo of "one inning closers". The stats I provided bore this out.

The ERA is one of the best determinants in rating pitchers. My point is that those that have the best ERA's, give your team the best opportunity to win. Pitching your best pitchers 2 innings instead of one is is simply....a no brainer....and the stats I posted....that you apparently can't read, is proof. Yesteryear's "best relief pitchers" averaged 2 innings plus...whereby today's relief pitchers don't. Yet the ERA's in comparing the 1 inning "closer" to the "2 inning closer" are very very close. If you can't understand the stats, then that is your problem.

If you want to continue the cherade in calling me names...knock yourself out. Life is short...and precious. I'm finished with you.

you havent provided any stats. my god man, you are senile. how can you possible say they provided better results when they pitch more than one inning when statistically they blow 10% more saves? not even to mention all of the pitchers you mentioned, did NOT average more than two innings pitched.

and ERA is NOT a good way to determine the effectiveness of a relief pitcher. here is how, if your old brain can computer

Old school pitcher throws 2 innings but gives up 2 runs and blows a save ERA = 9.00
Modern pitcher throws 1 inning and gives up 2 runs and blows a save ERA = 18.00

who gives a fuck what their ERA was, they lost the game. even if they dont blow the save, who cares what their ERA is, they got the save and the win.

Glory Days

Footwedge;1230382 wrote:Nobody is arguing the importance of closing games. But your innane posturing on a bogus theory is annoying. Having managers "stick to a closer" mentality cost the Indians a world championship in 97. People that have experience in watching the evolution of baseball managerial thinking know exatly what I am talking about. Now go punch your dog or something.

you dont think the managers in the big leagues right now making millions havent seen the evolution of baseball? if they thought your way of pitching worked, they would. problem is, they dont because it doesnt. just because you are old, doesnt make you right.

Glory Days

Footwedge;1230384 wrote: Any doufas can figure out that 2 inning closers will have more blown saves than one inning closers.

but only you are dumb enough to want a two inning pitcher and blow more saves.

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