Lebron thanks Cleveland.

• enigmaax

  Con_Alma;447085 wrote:Don't these contradict each other????

  
  I don't really think so, but I guess I see why you asked. In another part, he explained that nothing is a given, you still have to go out on the court and win. Miami gives him the best opportunity to do that, so I can see a few meanings in that second part.
  
  One, while the obvious counterpoint is "winning a title in Cleveland is more of a challenge, so it would be greater", that first assumes that the challenge is reasonable. I could say, I want to set the world record in the high jump, but it doesn't mean I'm going to try and jump over a house. While that would be more challenging, technically, the fact that I just don't feel it is going to happen means the end result - success and happiness (to which LeBron also alluded) - doesn't justify a place on my list of challenges.
  
  The other thing is that, perhaps he could have better stated that it was the greatest chance for achieving the goal or completing the challenge successfully, but again, it is kind of implied. The challenge that HE most wants to accept is the one where he tries to take Miami to a title with his buddies. So, that challenge, while not necessarily the "greatest" as in most difficult (according to others), is the greatest or most important to HIM. He mentioned his own happiness a few times, but people tend to glaze over that and focus on what they want him to accomplish and what it would mean to them.
• lhslep134

  

  Enigmaax, the problem was never him leaving to join the heat. Ever. It's about how.
  
  The problems, IMO, are as follows:
  
  1. He has a tattoo of loyalty and spoke ON END about how he wants to bring a championship to Cleveland, and said in '06 he wouldn't go ring chasing. Then he....
  
  2. Holds a 1 hour egomaniacal television special to announce he's leaving Cleveland to go ring chasing in Miami.
  
  3. He quits in the playoffs. I can only think of one reasoning for this: In his mind he perceived that it would be MUCH HARDER to leave Cleveland after bringing us a championship. However, he was 100% wrong, because if he brought Cleveland a championship, again imo, then it wouldn't have been as hard because we would have had our first championship since the 60's.
  
  4. This is completely unprecedented, and has completely undermined an extremely important point of sports, which is competitive balance. If you don't believe me, look up all of the strides that have taken place in the past 40 years throughout 4 main sports to ensure competitive balance. Sure there might be balance THIS year, with the Lakers, Celtics, Thunder, Magic all presenting challenges, but in 2 years the Lakers and Celtics will be too old to compete, and then you're going to see (again, this is my guess) another superteam formed between CP3 and 'Melo and another superstar to compete against the 3 egos. This would destroy the NBA.
  
  
  You want to watch a real team? Watch the Thunder or the Magic. They built themselves through the draft and smart moves without sacrificing the integrity of the game.
• enigmaax

  lhslep134;447273 wrote:Enigmaax, the problem was never him leaving. Ever.
  
  The problems, IMO, are as follows:
  
  1. He has a tattoo of loyalty and spoke ON END about how he wants to bring a championship to Cleveland, and said in '06 he wouldn't go ring chasing. Then he....
  
  2. Holds a 1 hour egomaniacal television special to announce he's leaving Cleveland to go ring chasing in Miami.
  
  3. He quits in the playoffs. I can only think of one reasoning for this: In his mind he perceived that it would be MUCH HARDER to leave Cleveland after bringing us a championship. However, he was 100% wrong, because if he brought Cleveland a championship, again imo, then it wouldn't have been as hard because we would have had our first championship since the 60's.
  
  4. This is completely unprecedented, and has completely undermined an extremely important point of sports, which is competitive balance. If you don't believe me, look up all of the strides that have taken place in the past 40 years throughout 4 main sports to ensure competitive balance. Sure there might be balance THIS year, with the Lakers, Celtics, Thunder, Magic all presenting challenges, but in 2 years the Lakers and Celtics will be too old to compete, and then you're going to see (again, this is my guess) another superteam formed between CP3 and 'Melo and another superstar to compete against the 3 egos. This would destroy the NBA.
  
  
  You want to watch a real team? Watch the Thunder or the Magic. They built themselves through the draft and smart moves without sacrificing the integrity of the game.

  
  Oh geez man, you say it isn't about his leaving but then the bulk of your bullet list is all about his leaving. I don't really care to drag it out, I just responded to a couple specific comments - 1) he DID explain his reasons and 2) a question posed directly to me. But, here's what I say about your points:
  
  1. Yeah, sure, things change. Goals change. You can hang on to random and politically correct statements said a long time ago all you want, but it happens every day and it doesn't make him a liar. Been said before, we don't agree, whatever.
  
  2. OH.MY.GOD. He had a TV show...for one hour. Seriously, BIG.FUCKING.DEAL. If you didn't already know he had an ego, you are an idiot.
  
  3. I love this one. He's pretty much the ONLY guy who performed well in the playoffs. I do believe reality started to set in in the series, but he didn't quit. So many people are taking a few snapshots of his obvious frustration and acting as though he completely bailed and tanked the whole series. Didn't happen.
  
  4. Unprecedented? Who fucking cares? The NBA has never been balanced and everyone wants the best players. If he had gone to the Clippers, you'd be okay - well, thats cool that you have special rules for the one player who left your team. You know, it isn't LeBron James' job to preserve some abstract idea of competitiveness FOR YOU. What have the Thunder or Magic won at this point? What is the ultimate goal? How did the Lakers and Celtics build their teams? Sorry, free agency is part of the game.
  
  As for it destroying the NBA, it already sucks compared to where it was during the superteam eras of the 80s and 90s. Again, we've been through this. This is going to bring casual fans back in greater volume...and that is where the money is.
• like_that

  

  enigmaax;447298 wrote:Oh geez man, you say it isn't about his leaving but then the bulk of your bullet list is all about his leaving. I don't really care to drag it out, I just responded to a couple specific comments - 1) he DID explain his reasons and 2) a question posed directly to me. But, here's what I say about your points:
  
  1. Yeah, sure, things change. Goals change. You can hang on to random and politically correct statements said a long time ago all you want, but it happens every day and it doesn't make him a liar. Been said before, we don't agree, whatever.
  
  2. OH.MY.GOD. He had a TV show...for one hour. Seriously, BIG.FUCKING.DEAL. If you didn't already know he had an ego, you are an idiot.
  
  3. I love this one. He's pretty much the ONLY guy who performed well in the playoffs. I do believe reality started to set in in the series, but he didn't quit. So many people are taking a few snapshots of his obvious frustration and acting as though he completely bailed and tanked the whole series. Didn't happen.
  
  4. Unprecedented? Who fucking cares? The NBA has never been balanced and everyone wants the best players. If he had gone to the Clippers, you'd be okay - well, thats cool that you have special rules for the one player who left your team. You know, it isn't LeBron James' job to preserve some abstract idea of competitiveness FOR YOU. What have the Thunder or Magic won at this point? What is the ultimate goal? How did the Lakers and Celtics build their teams? Sorry, free agency is part of the game.
  
  As for it destroying the NBA, it already sucks compared to where it was during the superteam eras of the 80s and 90s. Again, we've been through this. This is going to bring casual fans back in greater volume...and that is where the money is.

  
  Are you just being the devil's advocate for the sake of it? I can't imagine you are truly this ignorant.
• enigmaax

  like_that;447312 wrote:Are you just being the devil's advocate for the sake of it? I can't imagine you are truly this ignorant.

  
  Not at all. Great word, ignorant. I'm really interested to see you have any better input than that. If it is the same old, "LeBron promised us this and he should've told us first" crap, you might as well save it. Bottom line is that people are doing the old living vicariously through their sports hero and trying to make more out of a guy's personal decision than what it should be. If you wanted to move to Miami and work with your buddies, nobody would hold it against you...even if you announced on TV. Except, you wouldn't announce it on TV because nobody cares enough to watch, unlike the millions of people who did care enough to watch LeBron.
• SportsAndLady

  

  enigmaax doesn't have a life..he just sits on the computer all day and writes long ass stories because he is a fucking loser.
• thedynasty1998

  

  Of all the people who are so appalled at his one hour special, how many of you didn't watch it?
• Commander of Awesome

  

  enigmaax;447318 wrote:Not at all. Great word, ignorant. I'm really interested to see you have any better input than that. If it is the same old, "LeBron promised us this and he should've told us first" crap, you might as well save it. Bottom line is that people are doing the old living vicariously through their sports hero and trying to make more out of a guy's personal decision than what it should be. If you wanted to move to Miami and work with your buddies, nobody would hold it against you...even if you announced on TV. Except, you wouldn't announce it on TV because nobody cares enough to watch, unlike the millions of people who did care enough to watch LeBron.

  
  Def more to it than that. Its been all over the boards, including about 15 different threads the day of the TV event. Not even going to bother explaining it again for an idiot like you.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  thedynasty1998;447351 wrote:Of all the people who are so appalled at his one hour special, how many of you didn't watch it?

  
  You didn't have to watch the whole thing to know it was ABSOLUTELY a childish, ego-driven and foolish thing to do.
  
  If you have any PR sense AT ALL (most people do) you understand how wrong it was; how unnecessary and childish. That's why just about every national commentator and pundit blasted him for how he handled this.
  
  Had Lebron handled this like a professional and told Cleveland, up front, that he'd be leaving to explore greener pastures at the end of his contract, the organization could have made some different choices to put itself in a more solid situation now.
  
  Instead, he tried to have it both ways: keep the fans in Cleveland adoring him, but playing coy and not revealing his plans.
  
  I can't think of one thing he did leading up to and including the announcement on TV that was the decent, responsible and respectful way to go about leaving the Cavs and moving on. He made just about every wrong move, and I think it's because (1) the people that surround him are stupid and are a bunch of sycophants who do nothing but caress and feed that massive ego.
• thedynasty1998

  

  Writerbuckeye;447366 wrote:You didn't have to watch the whole thing to know it was ABSOLUTELY a childish, ego-driven and foolish thing to do.
  

  
  That's my point. Everyone is so quick to criticize his one hour special now, but those same people were glued to the TV. Personally, I loved it. Not because of his decision, but because I thought it was great TV in that it was dramatic and really a monumental event.
  
  I don't fault anyone for disliking the way he handled things, but I just think it is somewhat hypocritical of people to criticize the one hour special, yet be glued to it.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  
• enigmaax

  Writerbuckeye;447366 wrote:You didn't have to watch the whole thing to know it was ABSOLUTELY a childish, ego-driven and foolish thing to do.
  
  If you have any PR sense AT ALL (most people do) you understand how wrong it was; how unnecessary and childish. That's why just about every national commentator and pundit blasted him for how he handled this.
  
  Had Lebron handled this like a professional and told Cleveland, up front, that he'd be leaving to explore greener pastures at the end of his contract, the organization could have made some different choices to put itself in a more solid situation now.
  
  Instead, he tried to have it both ways: keep the fans in Cleveland adoring him, but playing coy and not revealing his plans.
  
  I can't think of one thing he did leading up to and including the announcement on TV that was the decent, responsible and respectful way to go about leaving the Cavs and moving on. He made just about every wrong move, and I think it's because (1) the people that surround him are stupid and are a bunch of sycophants who do nothing but caress and feed that massive ego.

  
  One, I would say he did say two years ago he'd be exploring options. Cleveland knew this was coming a long time ago. They pretty much banked on the fact that it was "home" as being the reason he'd stay. And it burnt them.
  
  As for all of the other things, he was ALWAYS this way. He called himself the King without ever winning shit. Your team gave his buddies jobs. You didn't have to see the special to know all of this about him. That's my point. You loved all of that about him when he was on your team. Now he's not so you hate it all. For years Cleveland fans defended those same points when other people made them - everyone was a "hater". But now it is suddenly all true? No, you were either a dipshit for seven years or you are a dipshit now (not "you, writerbuckeye"...general statement). Which is it?
• ClayAikenation

  

  thedynasty1998;447371 wrote:That's my point. Everyone is so quick to criticize his one hour special now, but those same people were glued to the TV. Personally, I loved it. Not because of his decision, but because I thought it was great TV in that it was dramatic and really a monumental event..

  First of all Mr Dynasty1998, I feel the Lebron James Happy Happy Fun Hour can be easily compared to American Idol (especially the Clay Aiken/ Ruben Studdard season tee hee). Much like the Lebron James special, during the hour long voting episode Fox puts on for American Idol, they basically string the audience for the whole hour long showing stupid clips such as cooking rhubarb with their mothers back home or playing strip pool with Ruben Studdard before they get to the final voting in the last 5 minutes of the hour long special. Now, ya know what makes great television Mr. Dynasty? Well, I know what doesn't make good television and thats the stupid Greenwich,CT Boys and Girls Club. If you have the gall to claim that you thought this was great television, then you sir must be a pedophile or had great personal memories of your own boys and girls club experiences. Now, you claim that Lebrons hour of TV was AWESOME, then wow, wouldn't a TV executive at NBAtv (which is a horrible redundant network) try to start a 30 min or hour long specials during the summer hours advertising the Carlos Boozer decision, or the Penny Hardaway Claim me off waivers special? And that my friends, is why that hour was horrible television. Ciao!! XoxXo
• thedynasty1998

  

  ClayAikenation;447412 wrote:First of all Mr Dynasty1998, I feel the Lebron James Happy Happy Fun Hour can be easily compared to American Idol (especially the Clay Aiken/ Ruben Studdard season tee hee). Much like the Lebron James special, during the hour long voting episode Fox puts on for American Idol, they basically string the audience for the whole hour long showing stupid clips such as cooking rhubarb with their mothers back home or playing strip pool with Ruben Studdard before they get to the final voting in the last 5 minutes of the hour long special. Now, ya know what makes great television Mr. Dynasty? Well, I know what doesn't make good television and thats the stupid Greenwich,CT Boys and Girls Club. If you have the gall to claim that you thought this was great television, then you sir must be a pedophile or had great personal memories of your own boys and girls club experiences. Now, you claim that Lebrons hour of TV was AWESOME, then wow, wouldn't a TV executive at NBAtv (which is a horrible redundant network) try to start a 30 min or hour long specials during the summer hours advertising the Carlos Boozer decision, or the Penny Hardaway Claim me off waivers special? And that my friends, is why that hour was horrible television. Ciao!! XoxXo

  
  Glad that you had to create a username for this rant. I'm not sure what you are trying to say after reading it though.
  
  First off, I appreciate you calling me Mr. and sir. Not sure how or why I earned so much of your respect.
  
  Secondly, I must be a pedophile for enjoying the Lebron special. Not sure how, but if that's your logic, then yea, label me a pedophile.
  
  Thirdly, I said I understand that people didn't like it. But I said "personally" I enjoyed it. Sorry for having an opinion.
  
  Lastly, did you see the ratings? It was watched by A LOT of people. Why did people watch it? Because he's arguably the biggest superstar in the world today. Sorry, Penny Hardaway just doesn't have that much interest.
• like_that

  

  Anyone else surprised that dynasty LOVED the show?
• ClayAikenation

  

  Well Mr Dynasty, I call you sir and madam because I am from North Carolina and I value manners. Now down to business, if you have any reading comprehension skills, I did not call you a pedophile for enjoying the lebron special but rather because if you watched the whole thing then u must have really really enjoyed the boys and girls club fluff. Now, funny thing about the ratings. Outside of Columbus/ Cleveland/ Cincinnati and Miami, the ratings were paltry. Ya know why? Because nobody else cared. Hey, did I watch the last season of American Idol? No? O yea, I didn't because nobody cared about that season LOL.
• Con_Alma

  Enigmaax...I appreciate your expanding on how you might interpret that. If I read your explanation it sounds like Mr. James doesn't use all the words he could in order to communicate what the greatest challenge means in his mind.
• stroups

  

  thedynasty1998;447351 wrote:Of all the people who are so appalled at his one hour special, how many of you didn't watch it?

  
  I didn't, I was at a roosters and they turned everyone of their TV's to that channel(even the one I was watching the reds game on) and I finished my beer and left. I could care less about an hour special dedicated to a one sentence answer.
• Heretic

  

  I think I watched it through the part after THE DECISION was made where LeBron made the comment that came off like he was giving Cleveland fans permission to have mixed feelings about him leaving. Around that time, I found it more interesting to surf the net and keep tabs on the news to see if a torch-wielding mob was converging on his house.
• SportsAndLady

  

  I didn't watch it. I was at Oklahoma Joe's in Kansas City...they had one TV on; no one was watching, including myself.
• Tiernan

  Cleveland sucks as a whole, but Lebron sucks harder and this "thank-you" is PR bullshit in its purest form.
• enigmaax

  Tiernan;448250 wrote:this "thank-you" is PR bullshit in its purest form.

  
  I agree with this. But, my question is, aren't these always the same thing? I mean, ever since the decision everyone has been whining that he didn't thank Cleveland. Then he thanked Akron and not Cleveland and that sucked. So now he thanks Cleveland and it wasn't genuine. How could he ever win?
  
  I know the obvious answer is that he should've thanked Cleveland during the decision or not made a spectacle of the announcement in the first place. But he DID do the TV thing and would people really have been any happier if he specifically said, "Thank you Cleveland"? I mean, when a guy makes a conscious decision to move on, isn't saying "thanks" still kind of like the its-not-you-its-me line. Or another way, isn't it like saying, hey we had a good time but you still aren't good enough? Honest question, would it really have made a difference if he had said it then or would people still have called it nongenuine?
• tsst_fballfan

  

  He is keeping tabs on everyone!
  
  http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38657631/ns/sports-player_news/
• SportsAndLady

  

  enigmaax;448273 wrote:I agree with this. But, my question is, aren't these always the same thing? I mean, ever since the decision everyone has been whining that he didn't thank Cleveland. Then he thanked Akron and not Cleveland and that sucked. So now he thanks Cleveland and it wasn't genuine. How could he ever win?
  
  I know the obvious answer is that he should've thanked Cleveland during the decision or not made a spectacle of the announcement in the first place. But he DID do the TV thing and would people really have been any happier if he specifically said, "Thank you Cleveland"? I mean, when a guy makes a conscious decision to move on, isn't saying "thanks" still kind of like the its-not-you-its-me line. Or another way, isn't it like saying, hey we had a good time but you still aren't good enough? Honest question, would it really have made a difference if he had said it then or would people still have called it nongenuine?

  
  Do you want to fuck Lebron dude? Every time someone posts something about Lebron you defend him with 11 paragraphs...get off his cack.
• -Society-

  

  SportsAndLady;448434 wrote:Do you want to fuck Lebron dude? Every time someone posts something about Lebron you defend him with 11 paragraphs...get off his cack.

  
  Is he on his nuts just like every Cleveland fan was the past 7 years, you included?