HBO: Hard Knocks featuring the New York Jets

• justincredible

  

  wes_mantooth;446745 wrote:Won't cripple them, but Revis may be the best in the game. Cromartie is a gambler....he gives up some big plays.

  
  Revis is the best in the game, but I trust Ryan enough to know that he can minimize the loss as much as possible.
• wes_mantooth

  

  That is true...a good scheming can cover up some losses in the secondary. Look at the Steelers, their secondary has always been suspect at best, but with the scheming and pass rush....it never gets exposed.
• karen lotz

  

  Justin, when you say losing Revis won't cripple the defense, do you really think he and the Jets won't work something out? I'm only asking because I would be shocked. He is by far the best corner in the league. Oakland really screwed the Jets with that contract they gave.
• karen lotz

  

  http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5449302
  
  
  Can't believe this.
• justincredible

  

  karen lotz;446815 wrote:Justin, when you say losing Revis won't cripple the defense, do you really think he and the Jets won't work something out? I'm only asking because I would be shocked. He is by far the best corner in the league. Oakland really screwed the Jets with that contract they gave.

  
  I don't see Revis playing another game with the Jets, at leastnot this year.
  
  Al Davis is a real piece of crap.
• IggyPride00

  

  Al Davis is a real piece of crap.

  Yeah, he totally blew up the market on DB prices with that deal.
  
  The NFL kind of breads this sort of thing without guaranteed deals though. I don't blame Revis for sitting out until he gets paid. He might have signed a contract, but if he had a career threatening injury he would probably get cut and never live to see the big pay day.
• thedynasty1998

  

  I just can't see him sitting out a whole year. I just don't understand what that accomplishes? He's not making that much money where I would think he can even afford to do that. And if he takes a year off, he's still in the same deal a year from now.
  
  But I do think he's worth the money. Maybe not what he wants, but seems to be worth more than the Jets are currently offering. He will get his deal done in time and will be a MVP candidate once again.
  
  And I don't think you can minimize his absence. They absolutely put him on an island all by himself. That's just not something you can do in the NFL.
• IggyPride00

  

  And if he takes a year off, he's still in the same deal a year from now.

  If he really does sit out the whole year, the Jets will move him after the season out of their own self-interest.
  
  If they reach the conclusion he is going to continue to sit, they will trade him for a first round pick as well as a bounty of other picks as teams would be lining up for him even at a steep price.
  
  They aren't going to have him just continue to sit forever to try and prove a point, because those picks would help the team in ways that him sitting out won't.
  
  The Redskins got 2 first rounders from the Panthers for Revis's uncle Sean Gilbert after he sat out the season over a contract dispute. I don't think the Jets can get that, but they can probably get a first and 2nd or 3rd, and that would make it worth it if he isn't going to play.
  
  The only reason I believe Revis is in for the long haul as far as the holdout goes is because his uncle (and closest adviser) is telling him that it worked for him and got him the payday he was looking for.
• justincredible

  

  If I am woody and tannenbaum, I let him sit for the next three years.
• IggyPride00

  

  justincredible;447302 wrote:If I am woody and tannenbaum, I let him sit for the next three years.

  
  That sounds great and in principle I agree, but Revis at home doesn't help the team nearly as much as a bounty of good draft picks does. This is a team on the cusp of a Super Bowl possibly, so you can't just let an asset like that rot away if you have determined he will never help your team again.
• justincredible

  

  IggyPride00;447324 wrote:That sounds great and in principle I agree, but Revis at home doesn't help the team nearly as much as a bounty of good draft picks does. This is a team on the cusp of a Super Bowl possibly, so you can't just let an asset like that rot away if you have determined he will never help your team again.

  
  Yeah, I definitely see the benefit of trading him away, I just don't want to trade him for a bunch of picks. I want another proven player, at least.
• Heretic

  

  wes_mantooth;446807 wrote:That is true...a good scheming can cover up some losses in the secondary. Look at the Steelers, their secondary has always been suspect at best, but with the scheming and pass rush....it never gets exposed.

  
  I'd say it's more that the Steelers secondary doesn't get exposed IF Polamalu is healthy and on the field. You take him out of the equation and their suspect secondary suddenly gets really shaky. That's the thing that would worry me about not having Revis if I was a Jets fan -- you've suddenly removed the one most crucial element from that unit.
• wes_mantooth

  

  Heretic;447368 wrote:I'd say it's more that the Steelers secondary doesn't get exposed IF Polamalu is healthy and on the field. You take him out of the equation and their suspect secondary suddenly gets really shaky. That's the thing that would worry me about not having Revis if I was a Jets fan -- you've suddenly removed the one most crucial element from that unit.

  
  Yeah, Troy is very disruptive and the Steelers are a different defense without him.
• IggyPride00

  

  They never came to an agreement and Gilbert sat out the entire 1997 season.
  
  Thirteen years later, Darrelle Revis' training-camp holdout looks similar to the one his uncle staged. Gilbert, one of the major influences in Revis' life, eventually was traded to the Panthers in 1998 for two first-round picks and signed a seven-year, $46.5 million deal.
  
  "If you're good enough and you sit out, you're still going to make a lot of money the next year," said Casserly, then Washington's general manager. "I think that's where (Revis') mindset is: What am I risking? One million dollars? I'm still going to be paid."
  
  Casserly admitted the team "couldn't rationalize paying" Gilbert what he wanted and slapped the franchise tag on him. Subsequent negotiations stalled as well.
  
  "We had an open line of communication the whole time," Casserly said. "But sometimes there wasn't a lot to talk about."
  
  Casserly, more than anyone, knows not to take anything for granted.
  
  "At this point (in 1997), I'm figuring the guy's coming in," Casserly said. "I never thought the guy would not show up. The negotiations kept dragging on. We were stuck on our position and they were stuck on their position for a long time."
  
  "In Sean Gilbert's case," he added, "he actually made more money by holding out for the season."
  
  Gilbert's prominent role in Revis' life is undeniable. On the third day of the All-Pro cornerback's holdout, Rex Ryan even admitted that he was "sure" that Gilbert has advised Revis throughout this process.
  
  "This is a real close-knit family," Schwartz told the Daily News. "Sean has helped and nurtured Darrelle's football talents."

  http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2010/08/0/2010-08-04_darrelle_revis_holdout_with_new_york_jets_looks_similar_to_that_of_uncle_sean_gi.html
  
  This is part of a NY Daily News article with Charley Casserly, who dealt with the Gilbert hold-out situation in the season he sat out.
  
  I bolded the most important part, because that is exactly what Revis is hearing from Gilbert right now, and if the Jets had better decide just how important he is and make an offer accordingly.
  
  On Profootball talk they said it will come down to how the Jets start. If they start out hot, then Revis losses any leverage he may have and will probably just pack it in for the year. On the other hand, given the expectation level if they start slow pressure on management will be intense to give him whatever he wants to get back onto the team.
  
  Emmitt Smith missed the first 2 games after the Cowboys first Super Bowl season because he was holding out for a new deal. The Cowboys lost both games, and he got his money before the 3rd game.
  
  I think there is a very good chance we don't see Revis this year unless the Jets start slow.
• justincredible

  

  IggyPride00;447512 wrote:I bolded the most important part, because that is exactly what Revis is hearing from Gilbert right now, and if the Jets had better decide just how important he is and make an offer accordingly.

  
  This is why, if I were the GM and/or owner, I'd let him sit. You think he's gonna make more money after sitting out for 3 years? No chance.
  
  And again, Al Davis is a piece of crap. Revis definitely deserves to be the highest paid DB in the league, but Asomough's contract is just absurd. Team-crippling, especially for one pushing hard for a Super Bowl like the Jets.
• justincredible

  

  Revis is being fined $16,523 for each day he misses, meaning he is already out $148,707. By sitting out, he also waived a clause in his contract which would have guaranteed him $20 million over the last two years of his deal.

  Come on, kid.
• wes_mantooth

  

  justincredible;447563 wrote:This is why, if I were the GM and/or owner, I'd let him sit. You think he's gonna make more money after sitting out for 3 years? No chance.
  
  And again, Al Davis is a piece of crap. Revis definitely deserves to be the highest paid DB in the league, but Asomough's contract is just absurd. Team-crippling, especially for one pushing hard for a Super Bowl like the Jets.

  
  I agree about Davis being pure garbage for the NFL, but honestly, the Jets need to pony up and pay him crazy amounts of money. In the NFL, there is always a small window for winning a championship. The Jets are right there...very close. Who knows what the CBA will bring after this season.
• justincredible

  

  wes_mantooth;447567 wrote:I agree about Davis being pure garbage for the NFL, but honestly, the Jets need to pony up and pay him crazy amounts of money. In the NFL, there is always a small window for winning a championship. The Jets are right there...very close. Who knows what the CBA will bring after this season.

  
  Right, which is why they don't want to give him a ridiculous contract. It could completely cripple the team.
• wes_mantooth

  

  justincredible;447571 wrote:Right, which is why they don't want to give him a ridiculous contract. It could completely cripple the team.

  
  I guess this is just me being a Cleveland fan, but I would overpay a ton if it was going to help me get one championship...fuck the future. With that said, even with Revis...they are not the favorite in the AFC....very tough situation.
• BigAppleBuckeye

  

  When you mentioned "Hard Knocks" and "Jets" I thought you meant Jenn Sterger:
  
  
  
  
• justincredible

  

  I wish Revis would take a page out of Mangold's book. Mangold is the best center in the NFL and a HUGE reason that the run game is so good, and he definitely deserves more money, but he's putting the team ahead of himself for the time being.
  

  NEW YORK (AP)—Jets center Nick Mangold(notes) says he will report for training camp with the rest of the team next weekend despite not having a new contract in place.
  
  Mangold tells the NFL Network on Friday night that it wouldn’t do him any good to hold out, so “I’ll be there with bells on.”
  
  The Jets report for training camp on Aug. 1 in Cortland, N.Y.
  
  The All-Pro center is making $3.3 million entering the final year of his rookie deal, but is seeking a long-term contract extension. He decided to participate in minicamp despite being unhappy with the lack of negotiations.

• wes_mantooth

  

  All of this makes for some interesting tv starting tomorrow though....
• Firad

  

  If you don't have HBO you shuldn't have trouble finding it somewhere online. I did have HBO but watched all of the Bengals online. I think it was on www.justin.tv maybe.
• Art Modell

  

  justincredible;447586 wrote:I wish Revis would take a page out of Mangold's book. Mangold is the best center in the NFL and a HUGE reason that the run game is so good, and he definitely deserves more money, but he's putting the team ahead of himself for the time being.

  
  I feel sorry for Nick. Poor guy only making 3.3 million this year.
• justincredible

  

  Season starts tonight at 10pm. Just a reminder.