Jordan rips LeBron at Lake Tahoe

• derek bomar

  

  thedynasty1998;427161 wrote:The playoffs are such a different game. They actually play defense. The benches are not as important. There are not as many easy baskets.
  
  The Cavs overachieved during the regular season as teams like the Lakers and Boston sort of coasted. Then when playoff time came around, Boston and LA turned it up a notch, whereas the Cavs were already playing at their max.

  
  you know you're argument is a fallacy right?
• ytownfootball

  

  thedynasty1998;427161 wrote:The playoffs are such a different game. They actually play defense. The benches are not as important. There are not as many easy baskets.
  
  The Cavs overachieved during the regular season as teams like the Lakers and Boston sort of coasted. Then when playoff time came around, Boston and LA turned it up a notch, whereas the Cavs were already playing at their max.

  You really think the Lakers just said F it and didn't get up to play the Cavs? Be realistic
• enigmaax

  ytownfootball;427158 wrote:Difference was that with LBJ on a 3 year deal the Cavs had to make moves, whether they were what they actually thought was best or not. They were on the clock, and the pieces that they actually may have wanted were not available at the time.

  
  I buy into the fact that they were crossed between trying to ensure they were good enough "now" and having to think of the future. It was a tough spot and maybe there was no way to really win for the Cavs. Thinking they had to be "good enough" to keep LeBron at the end of his contract might've meant spending on what was available. That is where the risk paid off for Riley, but it wasn't without its tough moments when Wade had to play on such an incredibly horrible team. Could the Cavs have pulled that type of roller coaster off and kept LeBron? Probably not. Still, all I'm saying is that I understand LeBron's mindset whether or not he realizes he put them in the bind to begin with.
• enigmaax

  ytownfootball;427165 wrote:You really think the Lakers just said F it and didn't get up to play the Cavs? Be realistic

  
  It didn't mean anything to the Lakers. Do you really think there's no difference between regular season and playoff basketball? It isn't a stretch to say that a team who has never won anything finds more moral victories in beating good teams when it counts for nothing (they think it shows they've arrived). It isn't that the Lakers didn't try to beat the Cavs (or anyone else in the regular season), it is just that they turn on the real drive when it counts. Cleveland never learned what that means.
• thedynasty1998

  

  I don't necessarily think the Cavs didn't have a chance the last couple years, I don't know if they had a realistic chance going forward with Lebron. The Lakers got better this offseason. The Magic are still there. The Celtics got better.
  
  And then you have Chicago who got a lot better as did Miami. If Miami didn't sign Lebron they certainly would have gotten someone else. Oklahoma City is improving.
  
  While everyone is getting better around him, Lebron had to wonder if Cleveland would be good enough going forward. He knew the cap situation and knew that the Cavs couldn't really make a drastic change for at least a year. He was going to have to win with the current guys, and with everyone else getting better, maybe he didn't think he could win in Cleveland, and I happen to agree with that.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  thedynasty1998;427173 wrote:If Miami didn't sign Lebron they certainly would have gotten someone else.

  Oh really?!!?!!! Who would they have gotten? They got the best player in the league, who else could they have gotten that would have as much impact? Nice FAIL.
  
  Why do you guys let him get away with this shit?
• thedynasty1998

  

  Commander of Awesome;427179 wrote:Oh really?!!?!!! Who would they have gotten? They got the best player in the league, who else could they have gotten that would have as much impact? Nice FAIL.
  
  Why do you guys let him get away with this shit?

  
  When did I ever say they would have gotten someone of equal talent? Nice FAIL at trying to call me out.
  
  I said that other teams in the East were getting better and if Miami didn't sign Lebron, they still have the cap space to get someone else to join Wade, Bosh and Mike Miller.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Oh they could have gotten mystery player x? Ok.
• krazie45

  

  thedynasty1998;427183 wrote:When did I ever say they would have gotten someone of equal talent? Nice FAIL at trying to call me out.
  
  I said that other teams in the East were getting better and if Miami didn't sign Lebron, they still have the cap space to get someone else to join Wade, Bosh and Mike Miller.

  
  Does Mike Miller still join the Heat if LeBron doesn't sign there first and recruit him?
  
  Also to say that the Cavs played as well in the playoffs as they did in the regular season is false. The Shaq injury (ironically against Boston) threw off their entire mojo as they were ROLLING prior to that. Obviously the playoffs and regular season are different but I mean the Cavs and Lakers played on national television on X-Mas day and the Cavs rolled them. Do you really think the Lakers weren't playing hard in that situation? Do you think that the Cavs played as well against the Celtics in the playoffs as they did in that Lakers game? (answer is no, except for Game 3 where they gave the Celtics their worst home loss in the history of their entire franchise). The problem the last few years for the Cavs haven't been the other guys on the court, or the guys on the bench, it was the bald guy in the suit.
  
  Anyone else notice how no other team has really jumped at the chance to hire Mike Brown?
• Skyhook79

  

  enigmaax;427170 wrote:It didn't mean anything to the Lakers. Do you really think there's no difference between regular season and playoff basketball? It isn't a stretch to say that a team who has never won anything finds more moral victories in beating good teams when it counts for nothing (they think it shows they've arrived). It isn't that the Lakers didn't try to beat the Cavs (or anyone else in the regular season), it is just that they turn on the real drive when it counts. Cleveland never learned what that means.

  
  
  There is a difference but it certainly doesn't involve turning it on and off for the Playoffs and regular season, ie: Coasting. Its more about one team focusing and gameplanning on 1 team and 1 team only for 4-7 games. You don't do that in the regular season. No one today does that better than the Celtics and Lakers.
  Heck Mike Brown couldn't even get Lebron to pay attention in a timeout huddle. The Cavs had the talent but they didn't have the focus and it starts with Lebron James.
  No one focuses more than Kobe Bryant today and THAT is the difference between Champions and just Contenders.
• Sonofanump

  killdeer;426928 wrote:I realize you are probably exaggerating to make a point...but, that statement is absolutely ludicrous.
  
  You are obviously not of a generation to have ever seen Kareem play live.
  If all you know of the NBA in the 1980's is what you see on ESPNClassics, I can see why you might say that.......however,
  
  although KAJ was in the second half of his career by the time Magic was drafted in 1979, he went on to put up numbers that would argue against any assessment of him being a mere "shell of his former self."
  
  For the initial Magic season in LA, Abdul-Jabbar (24.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg) further cemented his place in history by winning a record sixth MVP Award.
  
  Abdul-Jabbar continued to average at least 20 points for the next six seasons.
  
  The Lakers reached the NBA Finals eight times in the 10 seasons between 1979-80 and 1988-89.
  In the 1985 Finals, Game 2, Abdul-Jabbar recorded 30 points, 17 rebounds, 8 assists and 3 blocked shots in a 109-102 Lakers win. Los Angeles went on to win the series in six games.
  
  In the Lakers' four victories in that Final, Abdul-Jabbar averaged 30.2 points, 11.3 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 2.0 blocks.
  
  Abdul-Jabbar was named Finals MVP 1985.
  
  Before you throw your "expert assessment" of Kareem's career out there so lightly, perhaps you should have the knowledge to back up your sass.

  Joey: I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense, and he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.
  KAJ: The hell I don't. LISTEN KID. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.
• enigmaax

  Skyhook79;427203 wrote:There is a difference but it certainly doesn't involve turning it on and off for the Playoffs and regular season, ie: Coasting. Its more about one team focusing and gameplanning on 1 team and 1 team only for 4-7 games. You don't do that in the regular season. No one today does that better than the Celtics and Lakers.
  Heck Mike Brown couldn't even get Lebron to pay attention in a timeout huddle. The Cavs had the talent but they didn't have the focus and it starts with Lebron James.
  No one focuses more than Kobe Bryant today and THAT is the difference between Champions and just Contenders.

  
  Agreed.
  
  I think that focus you mention is related to the whole "coasting" idea. There is more focus across the board when the playoffs roll around, for those teams that know how to win in the playoffs.
• lhslep134

  

  I think the best argument here is somewhat in between Krazie and Dynasty.
  
  Yes, playoff basketball is a different beast, but I think Dynasty is taking WAY too much stock in the ridiculous turnaround the Celtics had this year. There's a reason that seeds 4-whatever never (with some exceptions) make it to the finals. The teams that perform the best in the regular season tend to make it to the finals. The Cavaliers did have the talent to make it, but Lebron laying a goose egg during the Celtics series shows that you need your whole team to step up at once to win playoff series, whereas in a regular season game you can have 1 player win you 1 game on 1 day.
  
  Anyone who doesn't think the Cavs had championship worthy talent this year is either a hater or ignorant to NBA basketball.
• ytownfootball

  

  Skyhook79;427203 wrote:There is a difference but it certainly doesn't involve turning it on and off for the Playoffs and regular season, ie: Coasting. Its more about one team focusing and gameplanning on 1 team and 1 team only for 4-7 games. You don't do that in the regular season. No one today does that better than the Celtics and Lakers.
  Heck Mike Brown couldn't even get Lebron to pay attention in a timeout huddle. The Cavs had the talent but they didn't have the focus and it starts with Lebron James.
  No one focuses more than Kobe Bryant today and THAT is the difference between Champions and just Contenders.

  
  Yet people swear up and down that the Cav FO shouldn't be firing the "Coach of the Year", and to clarify my thought: Doc Rivers is a pretty decent coach, but he's not Riley or Phil Jackson, he had a veteran team whose been there before. Brown, quite frankly couldn't motivate or coach his way out of a wet paper bag. His lone redeeming attribute was getting the most out of what he had defensively, and that fell short in the play-offs (Rondo). He had one task in CLE, that being keeping LBJ in the house, though not his entire responsibility, he failed.
• killdeer

  

  Sonofanump;427229 wrote:Joey: I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense, and he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.
  KAJ: The hell I don't. LISTEN KID. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

  
  
  "Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?"
• BRF

  

  Great lines from "Airplane". I like what MJ was getting at, too. Guys like him had respect for their teams and the cities they played for. I am SO tired of people who live here that say "get over it". They are NOT fans of the team and Cleveland. One guy says to me yesterday, "Wouldn't YOU like to play on the same team with your friends?". Duh! He tells me he was at Great Lakes brewery for the unveiling of the "Quitness" beer (a Bitter tasting ale"). He sees two women with LBJ shirts that have tape over his name and number. He tells them to get over it. They tell him to go back to your mother's basement.
• 2quik4u

  

  http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/07/17/20100717lebron-james-nba-legends-reaction-bickley.html
• enigmaax

  Uh oh, now the national media is starting to turn on you Cavs fans. Good comparisons, especially as it relates to Jordan.
  
  http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-takes-the-easy-way-out-Good-for-hi;_ylt=Ao6ZMhAXoj1We1IRp0CSYsK8vLYF?urn=nba,256810
• dat dude

  enigmaax;427974 wrote:Uh oh, now the national media is starting to turn on you Cavs fans. Good comparisons, especially as it relates to Jordan.
  
  http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-takes-the-easy-way-out-Good-for-hi;_ylt=Ao6ZMhAXoj1We1IRp0CSYsK8vLYF?urn=nba,256810

  
  How can you possibly interpret that as "turning on Cavs fans?" If anything, he repeatedly ripped Lebron for his tackless "Decision," which is what bothered the fans the most. I think most (on here, and personally in my experience) understand why he left, but are just pissed about the way he went about it.
• enigmaax

  dat dude;428028 wrote:How can you possibly interpret that as "turning on Cavs fans?" If anything, he repeatedly ripped Lebron for his tackless "Decision," which is what bothered the fans the most. I think most (on here, and personally in my experience) understand why he left, but are just pissed about the way he went about it.

  
  Hey, good to hear from you again! Seriously. No, um, you may have missed the conversation from the past week about how Jordan, Magic, Bird never would've left. LeBron's legacy is tainted. On and on. Surely you've seen (or used) the national-media-is-even-saying-this line as some support for the opinion. Well, now the national media is not supporting that ridiculous argument...because this writer said so.
• ytownfootball

  

  Why am I having such difficulty in finding rationale supporting your continued interest in the subject?
• enigmaax

  ytownfootball;428067 wrote:Why am I having such difficulty in finding rationale supporting your continued interest in the subject?

  
  Um, it was a new article if you are wondering why I posted today. Or if it makes you feel better, there isn't much else going on today. Why am I having difficulty in finding rationale supporting your continued interest in my continued interest?
• KR1245

  

  krazie45;427187 wrote:Does Mike Miller still join the Heat if LeBron doesn't sign there first and recruit him?
  
  Also to say that the Cavs played as well in the playoffs as they did in the regular season is false. The Shaq injury (ironically against Boston) threw off their entire mojo as they were ROLLING prior to that. Obviously the playoffs and regular season are different but I mean the Cavs and Lakers played on national television on X-Mas day and the Cavs rolled them. Do you really think the Lakers weren't playing hard in that situation? Do you think that the Cavs played as well against the Celtics in the playoffs as they did in that Lakers game? (answer is no, except for Game 3 where they gave the Celtics their worst home loss in the history of their entire franchise). The problem the last few years for the Cavs haven't been the other guys on the court, or the guys on the bench, it was the bald guy in the suit.
  
  
  
  Anyone else notice how no other team has really jumped at the chance to hire Mike Brown?

  
  Good post. I dont think Mike Brown is getting enough blame here. Cavs had the talent, Brown didnt know how to use it.
• enigmaax

  KR1245;428077 wrote:Good post. I dont think Mike Brown is getting enough blame here. Cavs had the talent, Brown didnt know how to use it.

  
  Here's a subtopic I'm interested in. I've seen people say that Phil Jackson and Pat Riley, as examples, aren't really that great of coaches because they had so much talent. Some people obviously feel that Mike Brown is just that bad of a coach. There's room for discussion on how an NBA coach can really be great or horrible, based on how much real influence on the team they have.
  
  So, throw your opinions out there - is Jackson great and Brown horrible? Does either get unfair praise or criticism? Does it really matter who is on the sideline? What determines if someone is great or horrible at that level?
• thedynasty1998

  

  enigmaax;428082 wrote:Here's a subtopic I'm interested in. I've seen people say that Phil Jackson and Pat Riley, as examples, aren't really that great of coaches because they had so much talent. Some people obviously feel that Mike Brown is just that bad of a coach. There's room for discussion on how an NBA coach can really be great or horrible, based on how much real influence on the team they have.
  
  So, throw your opinions out there - is Jackson great and Brown horrible? Does either get unfair praise or criticism? Does it really matter who is on the sideline? What determines if someone is great or horrible at that level?

  Interesting discussion. First off, I think it's hard to discredit what Jackson has done with all the rings he has. Sure he might have went ring chasing, but the fact remains, he gets it done. I think when you talk about the all time greats, he has to be up there.
  
  As for Mike Brown, I don't think he's a great coach, but I don't think he's bad either. I actually think the Cavs overachieved most years when he was at the helm and I give him credit for that. Also, it's hard to motivate a bunch of millionaires over the course of a season so I think that is something that you have to give Mike Brown credit for.
  
  As for how much of a difference a coach makes, I think they are more valuable than the casual fan tends to think. Look at a guy like Doc Rivers, he makes GREAT in game adjustments and after every single timeout he gets his team a good look.