Pittsburgh Pirates - a new era beginning?
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Non
It's been a rough stretch. The Pirates have had 17 consecutive losing seasons and they'll make it 18 this year. Dead last in the NL Central and again one of the weaker teams in Major League Baseball.
However...
With some of the young players who have joined the mix, recently, they might have a strong core for a few years.
Jose Tabata, Neil Walker, Andrew McCutchen, Garrett Jones, Pedro Alvarez
The win Sunday against the Phillies was one of their best in awhile, rallying back in the seventh to win the game and take three out of four in the series. Alvarez hit his second home run to spark the comeback. He's finally starting to pick it up some after being overwhelmed for a few weeks.
Their bullpen is actually good. Starting pitching is not. They have a bunch of average pitchers but nobody to anchor the staff. It would take some luck to find a player like that even before next season. So that's the big problem.
Farm system has come a long way in the past few years and they have some quality options at the top three levels.
I think 2011 has a chance to be respectable. I'll say maybe even a chance at .500. -
killer_ewok
.500 would be nice..... -
hoops23
LOL -
justincredible
I have a feeling the Pirates will trade away the young talent before they really have a chance to contribute towards a winning team. -
David St. Hubbins
Not gonna happen unless the Nutting family jet crashes. Otherwise it's still the Pittsburgh Prospects for the forseeable future. -
Non
It's hard to sell a team that is currently 30-52 -- second worst in MLB - as having a bright future but I think the framework is in place, finally.
They've made huge strides in the farm system and the draft.
And this young group at the big league level has brought some excitement. They still have a lot of improving to do but the rest of this season will be good for that.
With Tabata, McCutchen and Alvarez there is the makings of a big three.
Like justin said, there is the question of how long before they end up losing these guys. But the problem has been that they've traded away solid players to rebuild the system and that wasn't working. Their drafting has been much better the past few years and they've stocked up on pitching. They have a lot of options now in the minors. -
Gardens35Nice ballpark...
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Hb31187
Everytime they get good young players....theyre traded lol. -
Automatik
Doubt it. I've given up on them a while ago. As long as Nutting is the owner I don't see any chance of success. -
wes_mantooth
justincredible;411794 wrote:I have a feeling the Pirates will trade away the young talent before they really have a chance to contribute towards a winning team.
This is spot on. They do it every year....why should they change their approach? -
End of Line
If the nuttings are still in charge, it'll never happen. -
Heretic
The team has been stocking up their minor league system. Drafting and signing Pedro Alvaraz is another good sign, as under Littlefield, they tended to go for cheap guys without much upside (A. McCutchen and Brad Lincoln being two exceptions to the rule, which included guys like Van Benschoten and Bullington). If they sign that pitcher they drafted in the first round this year, that would be another encouraging sign. While they have very little invested in their major league team right now, they are dumping a lot of cash into the draft and developmental system, which is a necessity for any small-market team.
Team president Coonelly has said that as the team gets more successful, the payroll will increase. If that statement proves to be honest, the team could come around in the next couple of years. For the first time in a long while, they actually have a NUCLEUS of young guys with legit talent and potential. They've had teams with a couple of good guys, but a ton of retreads, but never a legit group of guys. They've pretty much vultured Indy, but Altoona (AA) is just raping the Eastern League and Bradenton (high-A) is doing very well, also, so the team has plenty of quality hands who could be up next year or the year after.
The three worries I have:
1. Power. Pedro can provide that, but the organization really is lacking in power hitters. They have a bunch of players with 15-20 HR potential (Walker, McCutchen), but Pedro and Jones are really the only guys with 20+ potential.
2. Starting pitching. Charlie Morton regressed horribly, Kevin Hart's out for the year with an injury. Donnie Veal's hurt. Tim Alderson has been much worse than expected. The team has potential help at AA with Rudy Owens, Justin Wilson and Bryan Morris and at A+ with Nathan Adcock and Jeff Locke. With all the big league starters ranging from inconsistent to horrible, they REALLY need many of those potential guys to work out. If guys like Maholm and Duke are the cornerstone of the rotation, the team will need 6+ runs a game night-in and night-out to be .500.
3. Minor league injuries. A lot of prospects have missed (or are currently missing) a lot of valuable developmental time. Look at Bradenton. Starling Marte (considered one of the organization's top prospects) missed about two months. Both Tony Sanchez and Brock Holt, who were having very good seasons, are out now. Last year, after being obtained from Seattle, Brett Lorin was awesome on the mound at A-level West Virginia. He's just finally starting to see action (in rookie ball) after missing the first half of the season. Dudes need to stay healthy.
It all still comes down to the organization making efforts to keep guys if the team does turn around though. Minnesota's not a big payroll team, but they were smart enough to keep guys like Mauer and Morneau. -
Non
You're right. They had a lot of injuries at Bradenton and to many of their best position players.
Tony Sanchez, Brock Holt, Jeremy Farrell, Eric Fryer, Starling Marte.
Hopefully that group comes back strong.
Rudy Owens and Justin Wilson have been the most consistent pitchers at Altoona and should be promoted to AAA very soon.
And then hopefully some others will pan out from the group of Alderson, Hughes, Morris, Locke, Adcock, Irwin.
I think Tabata will end up being a 20-20 guy. That should help the home run output.
There are some options as far as position players although no other stars I'd say.
AAA
Clement (still might be a factor)
Presley (having a big year, is he for real?)
Kratz (30-year-old catcher might still be a No. 2)
Moss (serviceable)
Negrych (good bat, weak fielding)
Diaz (defensive shortstop)
Friday (middle infield with some pop but has been injured)
AA
Hague (a little older 24 but he's been on a tear)
Gimenez (big season for the 28-year-old catcher, another No. 2 option)
Gorkys (starting to come around now)
Josh Harrison (forgotten man in that trade with Cubs but he is doing well, no power but can hit)
A
Calvin Anderson (big 6'7 kid that strikes out too much but has some power)
Farrell
Holt
Sanchez
Marte
Fryer
...all injured but a good group if they can get back healthy next season -
Heretic
Non;412415 wrote:You're right. They had a lot of injuries at Bradenton and to many of their best position players.
Tony Sanchez, Brock Holt, Jeremy Farrell, Eric Fryer, Starling Marte.
Hopefully that group comes back strong.
Rudy Owens and Justin Wilson have been the most consistent pitchers at Altoona and should be promoted to AAA very soon.
And then hopefully some others will pan out from the group of Alderson, Hughes, Morris, Locke, Adcock, Irwin.
I think Tabata will end up being a 20-20 guy. That should help the home run output.
There are some options as far as position players although no other stars I'd say.
AAA
Clement (still might be a factor)
Presley (having a big year, is he for real?)
Kratz (30-year-old catcher might still be a No. 2)
Moss (serviceable)
Negrych (good bat, weak fielding)
Diaz (defensive shortstop)
Friday (middle infield with some pop but has been injured)
AA
Hague (a little older 24 but he's been on a tear)
Gimenez (big season for the 28-year-old catcher, another No. 2 option)
Gorkys (starting to come around now)
Josh Harrison (forgotten man in that trade with Cubs but he is doing well, no power but can hit)
A
Calvin Anderson (big 6'7 kid that strikes out too much but has some power)
Farrell
Holt
Sanchez
Marte
Fryer
...all injured but a good group if they can get back healthy next season
Morris, Locke and Adcock all have been strong this year, although Morris hasn't been dominating at Altoona, like he was at Bradenton, where he was near-unhittable. Owens and Wilson have been the best two minor league pitchers, now that Lincoln no longer is in the minors.
The worry about Tabata as far as developing power goes is that he's been the same hitter moving up through the minors. Good average, good speed, little power. He's only 21 or 22, so he has time to add more (as does McCutchen), but I'd like to see at least a bit of improvement in that aspect.
For AAA:
I'd add Pearce, as he did solid for once in the bigs before getting hurt. To be honest, I don't know why he's in AAA right now. If the team was willing to cut ties with the pile of suck known as Iwamura, they could do the same with Church (or Delwyn Young, who hasn't been the super-utility guy he was last year). I mean, the team's going to stink this year, so they might as well stink with guys who have some potential. Presley's fallen off since his hot start. Right now, he's hitting about .230ish.
But yeah, when I look at that list of position players, most of them look to be good role players. If Marte develops like people think he could, he'll be a star. Sanchez could be a starting catcher if he continues to hit as he moves up the ladder. If Clement can hit for average, he could be a good power hitter. Thing is, he's starting to enter the Andy LaRoche category of being a minor-league superstar who can't deliver in the bigs. -
Non
Without seeing much of Tabata in the minors I thought he'd be smaller, but he has a good build and good hands, a lot of things that would suggest he has some power. He's driven the ball pretty well already although many of them have been right at people. I'd be surprised if he doesn't develop into at least a 15-20 HR guy.
Presley hit about .350 at Altoona and then started fast at Indy before falling off the past few games. He's not a blue chip prospect being 25 but could still have some value.
I think their position players are going to be set, mostly. Particularly the outfield.
SS is a huge need area. Maybe another veteran bat with power and not sure what's going to happen at catcher for a few years. Doumit is terrible defensively. Kratz and Gimenez are solid players but not long-term starters. Sanchez is too far away at this point. -
vball10setthis kid's gonna' be a nice addition to their staff..I watched him in high school & college,and he's got a lot of talent--now,if they just let him pitch,and grow...
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10184/1070239-63.stm -
Heretic
vball10set;412530 wrote:this kid's gonna' be a nice addition to their staff..I watched him in high school & college,and he's got a lot of talent--now,if they just let him pitch,and grow...
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10184/1070239-63.stm
Thomas had great numbers this year in AAA. So far in the bigs, he hasn't done much (like a 10.8 ERA in 3-4 appearances), but he's in the "pitch blowouts" role right now as the low man on the relief totem pole. -
Non
LF-Tabata
CF-Cutch
RF-Milledge
3B-Alvarez
SS-
2B-Walker
1B-Jones
C-Doumit
Crosby hits pretty well but I don't know if defensively he can be the answer long term at SS. They would have to re-sign him anyway.
Milledge does ok defensively and has delivered enough clutch hits to remain in RF.
Jones at 1B with maybe Pearce as a RF/1B flex player.
I'm not that concerned with the position players. I think they have a good core they're just in the early stages.
pitching wise they need to find another top of the rotation starter
Maholm is a No. 3 maybe No. 2 on his best day
Lincoln 3/4
Karstens 4/5
Duke 4/5
Ohlendorf 4/5
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Owens
Wilson
For next season they can't count on those two being in the mix. I think if they could sign a solid veteran they'd be able to round it out. At least be good enough to be about a .450 to .500 team.