Indians at Pirates, Game 3

• Heretic

  

  Pirates win the rubber match of two young, struggling teams by a 5-3 margin. Santana continues to kick ass for the Indians (had a couple RBIs, batting nearly .400 right now). Brad Lincoln had his first quality start (but not his first win) in the bigs, the bullpen was good and the offense did enough.
  
  As bad as they are, I'm excited about the team for the rest of the year, as they're giving their prospects a shot with Tabata, Walker, Alvarez, Lincoln, McCutchen, etc. all currently playing important roles. I'm extremely impressed with Walker this year. As of last year, he was a guy whining that he wasn't getting a shot because he was drafted by the previous GM WHILE batting about .230-40 with decent (but not amazing) power at AAA. This year, he spent spring working at multiple positions, hit for average as well as production in the minors and has been both productive offensively and defensively for the Pirates after getting called up.
• Non

  

  They have a nice core. I don't care about wins and losses this year, just that they get some experience and bring some excitement and optimism.
  
  The pitching staff is still a major concern moving forward.
• newarkcatholicfan

  

  The Pirates got just what they needed to break out of their slump and that was the mistake on the Lake known as the Cleveland Indians.
• hoops23

  

  ^STFU
  
  Carlos Santana is the truth.
• wes_mantooth

  

  Other than Santana, there is no reason to watch this team.
• Glory Days

  

  this game was painful to watch in more ways that one. not only do i look like a lobster from roasting in the sun at the game, but i just wanted to stab my eyes out after cleveland failing to be able to throw the ball to first base time after time. then getting runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs and failing to score. its almost pathetic to watch.
• hoops23

  

  wes_mantooth;395625 wrote:Other than Santana, there is no reason to watch this team.

  
  Choo, Fausto, Masterson
  
  
  
  Other than that, you're 100% right.
• KR1245

  

  wes_mantooth;395625 wrote:Other than Santana, there is no reason to watch this team.

  
  Isnt that the truth. I hate half the guys on this team. Peralta and Jensen Lewis might be my least favorite Cleveland athletes of all time.
• Mohican00

  

  wes_mantooth;395625 wrote:Other than Santana, there is no reason to watch this team.

  
  Choo??
• Heretic

  

  Non
  I agree. IF Lincoln becomes a solid starter and Owens, Morris and Adcock ALL prove to be solid or better, the team could have a quality rotation in 2012. But right now, Maholm and Ohlendorf are the only two I'd consider decent (giving Ohlendorf a bit of a pass due to how he's had to fight back from early-season back issues). Duke teased us the first half of last year, but has been a disappointment since; Karstens is a serviceable #5 starter, but for whatever reason, management looks at him as an afterthought; who knows when/if Morton gets his head right.
  
  In my opinion, there's a BIG reason why their draft featured so many pitchers (especially in the early rounds): the fact that at the time of the draft, their MLB rotation sucks and most of their bullpen guys are one-year (or less) veterans (with the exception of Jesus Meek and Hanrahan). Despite how far apart we and Tampa are in the standings, we can at least lord over them that they gave our team Meek in the Rule 5...and let them keep him after they offered him back. He has developed into one hell of a reliever and seems to have "future closer" written all over him.
• wes_mantooth

  

  Mohican00;395638 wrote:Choo??

  
  Yeah, I suppose. I haven't heard of have of the guys playing now....Donald, Hernandez....etc
• GoPens

  

  Was at game 2 Saturday night. Loved the atmosphere and game. Hopefully the Pirates can get back to that, but I have my doubts with Nutting owning the team.
• Mulva

  

  hoops23;395633 wrote:Choo, Fausto, Masterson
  
  
  
  Other than that, you're 100% right.

  Masterson? 2-6, 4.87 hardly qualifies as a reason to watch.
• Laley23

  

  Mulva;395685 wrote:Masterson? 2-6, 4.87 hardly qualifies as a reason to watch.

  
  
  He is getting better, and has sick stuff when its working. It is worth watching to see if he continues to get better. But his numbers do blow ass.
• HitsRus

  

  What really bothers me is not so much that the varsity sucks, because all rebuilding teams suck....but that there is such a dearth of talent in the minors that I fear the team is irreversibly bad. The team was in such a hurry to cut salary, that they received 2nd tier players at best for a Cy Young pitcher and an all star catcher.
• Laley23

  

  HitsRus;395703 wrote:What really bothers me is not so much that the varsity sucks, because all rebuilding teams suck....but that there is such a dearth of talent in the minors that I fear the team is irreversibly bad. The team was in such a hurry to cut salary, that they received 2nd tier players at best for a Cy Young pitcher and an all star catcher.

  
  Which is so upsetting when you look at a trade such as Carlos Santana in return for Casey Blake.
• Heretic

  

  GoPens
  
  Here is my dream: While we all know that the Nuttings are all about the bottom line (NO. DENYING. THAT.), if the team improves, excitement is generated by their performance AND revenue increases (due to better attendance and merchandise sales), they will at least be willing to increase payroll to a competitive level. Nothing amazing, but at least something like what Minnesota's done recently. The way Huntington's worked to improve the minor league system gives us fans hope for a more positive future, but the players have to work out to give the team success and the ownership has to respond if that happens, so the success can continue.
  
  I have a black-and-white way of looking at things.
  
  1. Trading away guys who haven't made the team winners to improve the main reasons the team isn't winning isn't bad. Pitching (starters in particular) has been our worst aspect for a long time. Guys like Bryan Morris, Nathan Adcock, Jeff Locke, etc. at least have the potential to improve that aspect. All obtained in trades.
  
  2. If the team isn't winning, players are expendable. If the team is winning, you better keep important guys. Or at least as many as is feasible (since they won't EVER have a Bankee payroll). The number of young guys with legit potential gives them the potential to be a playoff team down the road (especially considering how weak the NL Central tends to be...a parity-ridden division where 85-90 games usually has a team in contention until the bitter end). If that happens, they have to make an effort to keep things rolling and operate out of the "we're in a position of strength" mindset with any potential transaction they make.
• HitsRus

  

  I am going to watch the Cliff Lee sweepstakes closely the next month....I'll bet the Mariners get more than a catcher who can't hit above the Mendoza line, a AAA pitcher, and a single A pitcher with a sore arm. I'll bet they won't have to throw in another major league player (Ben Francisco) as well.
  Yessir, we really pulled a fast one on the Phillies!
• newarkcatholicfan

  

  I agree Seattle will get a lot more.
• wes_mantooth

  

  Yeah, they will get more and he isnt as contract friendly as he was when the indians traded him
  
  Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
• Heretic

  

  Hits
  I don't know. For Jack Wilson (past his prime) and Ian Snell (headcase recently DFA'd), Seattle gave the Pirates: Ronnie Cedeno (Wilson with a bit more power, a bit worse ability to hit for average and a bit worse defense probably), Jeff Clement (recent elite prospect who hasn't shown the ability to hit with consistency in the bigs yet), Nathan Adcock (having a very good year at A+ Bradenton), Brett Lorin (was great at the A level last year, but hasn't pitched yet this year due to injury, which is slowing his development) and Aaron Pribanic (organizational filler; was pretty good at A, but really struggling at A+).
  
  I'm not saying they'll do worse than the Tribe concerning Lee, as I feel you got fleeced in that deal, but as for them getting legit compensation, I'd be skeptical.
• hoops23

  

  Mulva;395685 wrote:Masterson? 2-6, 4.87 hardly qualifies as a reason to watch.

  
  Are you serious?
  
  Justin Masterson is 25 and finally getting a legit chance to start. His stuff is FILTHY and his last 4 or 5 starts have been GREAT.
  
  for the month of June he has around 22 IP a 2.91 ERA and has went 2-1. His ERA would be MUCH better than that had it not been for the ineptitude on defense against the Mets when our fielders were playing like the Bad News Bears--how none of them were charged with errors on some of those gaffs is beyond me.
  
  And let's not act like this month is a fluke, he's shut down both the Red Sox and the Yankees during this stretch.
• HitsRus

  

  Masterson may be all we will have to show for trading an allstar catcher and a Cy Young winning pitcher. He better pan out.
• hoops23

  

  HitsRus;395777 wrote:Masterson may be all we will have to show for trading an allstar catcher and a Cy Young winning pitcher. He better pan out.

  
  Ugh, don't remind me...
  
  Though honestly, I wasn't really bothered by the Victor trade. I knew we had Carlos Santana coming up. I do think we could have gotten more for him, but if Masterson continues to improve I'll take a good pitcher with great stuff any day.
  
  Maybe we can strike it rich and fleece somebody for Jake Westbrook? (LOL)
  
  Seriously, why does it seem we fleece teams when it comes to the midlevel talent (Casey Blake got us Santana, Mark DeRosa got us Chris Perez) but we get fleeced when trading studs... SMH.
• Mulva

  

  hoops23;395773 wrote:Are you serious?
  
  Justin Masterson is 25 and finally getting a legit chance to start. His stuff is FILTHY and his last 4 or 5 starts have been GREAT.
  
  for the month of June he has around 22 IP a 2.91 ERA and has went 2-1. His ERA would be MUCH better than that had it not been for the ineptitude on defense against the Mets when our fielders were playing like the Bad News Bears--how none of them were charged with errors on some of those gaffs is beyond me.
  
  And let's not act like this month is a fluke, he's shut down both the Red Sox and the Yankees during this stretch.

  I'm very serious. The fact that you consider him to be a top 3-4 reason to watch the team is a great argument for NOT watching this team ever.
  
  He's made about 3 great starts all year, 3 terrible starts, and a bunch of average ones. And he got a "legit chance to start" last year. He started 10 games, and went 1-7 with a 4.55 ERA. That's 1/3 of a seasons worth of starts.
  
  He obviously has potential, but there are plenty of guys in the league with filthy stuff and nothing to show for it. There is no way I would tune in just to watch him pitch 6 innings and give up 4 runs.