Time for the Reds to fire Brooke Jacoby?

• Mooney44Cards

  

  Man their hitting is god-awful. Yes the pitching is not what we all expecting, but I feel like our pitchers are at least putting us into position to win games and the last two nights, we needed our closer to bail us out and they failed. So yes you can blame the bullpen, but honestly lets take a look at some of our good young hitters:
  
  Joey Votto, after last night's game has upped his batting average to .310, which is good. He has struck out 13 times though, and only has 3 RBI. This is supposed to be our best hitter? THREE RBI?!
  
  Jay Bruce, batting a pitiful .146 which I was willing to excuse because he had some bad luck in the first week of the season, but he's looking worse and worse at the plate, swinging at nothing. He has a whopping 2 RBI, neither of which came from a base hit (sac fly, BB). Jay has struck out 11 times so far.
  
  Drew Stubbs, has looked pitiful at the plate since his heroics against Chicago. .182 avg, 14 strikeouts (and he hasn't even played in a few days) 5 RBI, 4 of which came on that one swing of the bat against the Cubs.
  
  It seems that timely hitting, something that has always plagued the Reds the past few years, seems to be the problem yet again. I don't know how to remedy the problem, but it seems to me that if your offense can't hit, thats on the hitting coach. Maybe its not his fault, maybe its all mental with these guys, but the job of a coach is to have your guys mentally prepared for whats coming at them from the opposition and some of these guys I think are going out there to chop wood the way they're swinging the bat. We know these guys can hit, we've seen it. But nobody on this team seems to want to live up to their expectations, let alone surpass them.
  
  The only thing that has pleasantly surprised me about this team so far is the maturity of Mike Leake (looks miles ahead of Homer Bailey) and the aggressiveness (and success) running the bases. Everything else has been a disappointment and Dusty is well on his way out the door unless things turn around.
• Ironman92

  

  Jacoby may be the hitting coach....but I see Dusty approaches. I believe he's behind the poor at bats more than Jacoby.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Of course Jacoby should be fired...as should Dusty.
  
  I mean seriously, our hitting is awful and we have good hitters on the team...what other industry can you not do your job and keep your job?
• BCBulldog

  

  Ironman92 wrote: Jacoby may be the hitting coach....but I see Dusty approaches. I believe he's behind the poor at bats more than Jacoby.

  They are one in the same. Both were half-assed former players, now they are even worse as coaches. The destruction of Jay Bruce as a hitter from the beginning of his career to what he is now is obscene. I blame Baker and Jacoby for that. Stubbs appears to be their next victim. Let's just hope Francisco stays down until after Baker is fired.
• justincredible

  

  I agree with the consensus. Jacoby AND Dinglebaker should both be kicked to the curb.
• Big Red Monster

  One of the biggest mistakes ever was going ahead with Dusty Baker when Joe Torre was out there.
• brutus161

  

  Are the Reds pulling a Bluejackets ie. not playing up to potential to get rid of a manager?
• BR1986FB

  As a Tribe fan who grew up watching Jacoby play for the Indians, I almost spit out my drink when I heard the Reds had signed him as their hitting coach. He was one of the most undisciplined hitters, along with Cory Snyder, that the Indians had. Dude would swing at pitches 3 feet outside, 3 feet short of the plate and 3 feet over his head. He was the king of the meaningless solo home run. One year I think he had 33 HR's and 69 RBI's.
• IggyPride00

  

  No way. Brooke Jacoby is a GOAT. I remember being a kid and him being a part of some of the first Tribe teams I remember along with Joe Carter and Corey Snider and I thought he was a stud. Firing him now would be like firing Nick Mangold as a strength and conditioning coach later in life. Once you're a goat your always one.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Cleveland Buck

  

  Who is Brooke Jacoby? Brook Jacoby's wife? Or did Brook have a sex change operation since he stopped playing ball?
• Mooney44Cards

  

  Cleveland Buck wrote: Who is Brooke Jacoby? Brook Jacoby's wife? Or did Brook have a sex change operation since he stopped playing ball?

  Were you too bored and couldn't find anything else to do, or is this all you really had to add to the discussion, that I spelled his first name wrong? Not only is this completely derailing the thread, but its not even funny. You want some humorous internet brownie points, head back to the drawing boards and find a better sense of humor cuz "hurf durf you spelled his name like a girl" is just so far from funny its painful.
• NNN

  

  The Reds' problems are multifold.
  
  1) Dusty Baker is a grade-A bonehead. For the most part, a manager has very little effect on whether a team wins or loses relative to their talent level. Dusty Baker is one of those rare guys who has a big effect, and it happens to be a negative one. Anyone who would tell Adam Dunn to lay down a sacrifice bunt should have been railroaded immediately.
  
  2) Their talent level remains feeble. Can anyone honestly say that this is a better team than they would be if Dunn, Hamilton, or even Austin Kearns were still around?
  
  3) They have no clue how to put together a team. Heck, coming off a year with one of the worst records in the NL, they decided to spend $12 million per year on a closer.
  
  4) This team has less of a future than the Pirates do. Yes, I just said that. They traded good players with something of a future for Scott Rolen, whose best asset is that he was once a pretty good player. Only three of their starting fielders are under age 29.
  
  Walt Jocketty should have been honest a couple years back by standing up and saying "Fans, the last attempt at a rebuild has failed. It's going to be painful, but we need to start rebuilding again and we'll be back in the postseason hopefully within five years". Instead, it's been nothing but slapping Band-Aids all over the place, and he'll have to pay the piper at some point.
• Mooney44Cards

  

  1. Agree
  
  2. DISAGREE. You've got to be kidding me. Dunn fans will never come off it, so I won't even touch him. And though Volquez is hurt right now, most people agree that was a solid trade on both accounts. But AUSTIN KEARNS? Are you serious? He was an average player at best for the Reds. Though Jay Bruce may have had a slow start this year, ask all 30 GMs and who they'd rather have in RF Jay Bruce or Austin Kearns and I bet they'd all say Bruce. He's got more power and he's better defensively. Oh and he's like 22.
  
  3. Coco Cordero is under contract until next year, what were the Reds supposed to do, trade him? Find me a team thats gonna take that contract for a closer past his prime. And he was pretty effective in 2009, so I'm not complaining. A closer is a very underrated position and Coco is above average in the closer department (recent blown save notwithstanding). And I think Walt Jocketty knows what he's doing, especially compared to Wayne Krivsky and Jim Bowden. Unlike those other two, Walt built a winner in St. Louis.
  
  4. Edwin Encarnacion was the biggest flop for the Reds in 10 years, I'll take Scott Rolen over him any day. EE was below average defensively and always streaky. How long was he going to be given a pass based on his future prospects? And Orlando Cabrera and Scott Rolen are short term solutions, not to mention Ramon Hernandez. Having as many players as possible under the age of 28 (wherever that magic number comes from) does not make a good team. The Yankees had maybe 2 position players under the age of 28 and won a World Series. In fact their average age was probably around 35.
  
  I'm not bashing the makeup of this team. Many people in baseball consider it one of the better young teams in the league if they can play up to their potential, my problem is, they're not playing anywhere close to that potential.
• BCBulldog

  

  1. Agreed in part. The manager sets the tone for the clubhouse. The tone Baker sets is mute. The team has no fire, no direction and therefore, no success. It is Baker's fault.
  
  2. Mostly disagree. Dunn would have provided some of the power that this team sorely needs, Hamilton is a great player, Kearns is about two months until working at the Citgo. However, Hamilton was traded for a pitcher that the Reds were in desperate need of at the time. Even with the injuries, Volquez will prove to be a good acquisition for the Reds. But to the larger point, this team has plenty of talent. Most of it at the ML level is pitching, but they have some serious position players that will be up in the next two years.
  
  3. Agree and disagree. I do not think they knew what they were doing when Krivsky was running the show. Now that Jocketty is in charge, it is clear they have a plan in place. The problem is that Jocketty's plan is far different from Krivsky's and it takes time to turn a ship with a small motor (think $$). And Cordero has earned every penny of his salary. I have no problem with that deal.
  
  4. Completely and wholeheartedly disagree. Again, there is plenty of young, good talent in the organization. Votto is one of the best hitters in the NL and he is young. Phillips holds his own quite well for a slick-fielding 2B who is forced to hit in the wrong position in the batting order. Bruce has all the potential in the world. Stubbs can be good. The problem isn't them. It's Baker. As far as the Rolen deal goes, please explain to us who of Edwin Encarnacion, Zach Stewart or Josh Roenicke is 'good.' I'll admit that I didn't like the deal at first, but since Rolen re-signed for a fair deal and has provided a good influence in the clubhouse (something I didn't think he would do), I see this as a great deal for the Reds.
  
  I think the part that you are missing in all of this is that the Reds have been rebuilding in the background while using stop gaps like Cabrerra, Hernandez and Rolen to hold the fort and teach the youngsters until they are ready. This is Jocketty's contribution that Krivsky and O'Brien could never provide. Not all teams need a fire sale to rebuild.
  The only concern I have with Walt is the retention of Baker as the manager. However, I don't know of a real candidate they would want right now. You will have to pay Baker for this year no matter what, so why bring in someone you really don't want right now? After this season, there is bound to be a couple better candidates than there were this past off-season. Take your shot then.
• NNN

  

  Mooney44Cards wrote: 2. DISAGREE. You've got to be kidding me. Dunn fans will never come off it, so I won't even touch him. And though Volquez is hurt right now, most people agree that was a solid trade on both accounts. But AUSTIN KEARNS? Are you serious? He was an average player at best for the Reds. Though Jay Bruce may have had a slow start this year, ask all 30 GMs and who they'd rather have in RF Jay Bruce or Austin Kearns and I bet they'd all say Bruce. He's got more power and he's better defensively. Oh and he's like 22.
  
  3. Coco Cordero is under contract until next year, what were the Reds supposed to do, trade him? Find me a team thats gonna take that contract for a closer past his prime. And he was pretty effective in 2009, so I'm not complaining. A closer is a very underrated position and Coco is above average in the closer department (recent blown save notwithstanding). And I think Walt Jocketty knows what he's doing, especially compared to Wayne Krivsky and Jim Bowden. Unlike those other two, Walt built a winner in St. Louis.
  
  4. Edwin Encarnacion was the biggest flop for the Reds in 10 years, I'll take Scott Rolen over him any day. EE was below average defensively and always streaky. How long was he going to be given a pass based on his future prospects? And Orlando Cabrera and Scott Rolen are short term solutions, not to mention Ramon Hernandez. Having as many players as possible under the age of 28 (wherever that magic number comes from) does not make a good team. The Yankees had maybe 2 position players under the age of 28 and won a World Series. In fact their average age was probably around 35.

  2) Understand that I'm a firm believer in the Earl Weaver school of "If someone can do something, I want him on the team". Certainly Kearns is not as good at anything as Jay Bruce, but I'd rather have his bat in the lineup (even as a stopgap) over Willy Taveras or Laynce Nix or Miguel Cairo.
  
  3) I wouldn't have signed him in the first place. Closers have a tendency to flame out big-time, leaving them as nothing more than the answer to "remember him?" As in: remember Billy Koch?
  
  4) Having youth isn't necessarily an indicator of team success, but there's a big difference between old and productive and old and unproductive.
  
  To the point of Encarnacion, the big question would be whether Scott Rolen on the obvious downside of his career would be better than what Encarnacion would likely become. I'm also not a fan of trading someone who might still blossom into an All-Star for someone who is quite obviously a short-term stopgap.
• jordo212000

  

  NNN, you are off on a lot of things brother. I respect your opinion... but the Reds talent level is "feeble"? That's laughable and could only be uttered by somebody who doesn't really follow the team and only goes by perception. The Reds have a pitcher (Leake) who skipped the minors entirely. They have Aroldis Chapman who is left handed and throws 100 mph, Joey Votto who is one of the top young 1B in the game, Phillips who is a 20-20 2B, Yonder Alonso and Juan Francisco (both big time prospect in the minors), Drew Stubbs who looks like the everyday CF for many years to come, and several young guys who could be good to great (Bailey, Bruce, Volquez).
  
  Dusty Baker is a terrible manager. No argument there.
  
  In regards to Rolen, are you seriously saying that Encarnacion was a "good" player? Haha. Rolen is old, but he is far better than Encarnacion. Roenicke was also in the trade, but so far he hasn't shown me anything that suggests he is going to be good.
  
  Hamilton and Volquez both had the 1 good year for both of their teams... since then both have been useless for the most part. Hamilton's body shuts down all the time and he has consistently hit under .250. Not sure why you think the Reds are stupid for trading him. They sold high on him at the right time. It would be nice to have Dunn still, no arguments there. And Kearns, seriously? Do you think it is 2003? He sucks
• jordo212000

  

  NNN wrote:
  2) Understand that I'm a firm believer in the Earl Weaver school of "If someone can do something, I want him on the team". Certainly Kearns is not as good at anything as Jay Bruce, but I'd rather have his bat in the lineup (even as a stopgap) over Willy Taveras or Laynce Nix or Miguel Cairo.
  
  3) I wouldn't have signed him in the first place. Closers have a tendency to flame out big-time, leaving them as nothing more than the answer to "remember him?" As in: remember Billy Koch?

  again, you are showing your "ignorance" for lack of a better word.
  
  Taveras is no longer on the team. He sucked. Even if he was, I'm not sure why you are comparing him to Kearns... Kearns could not play centerfield at this point in his career if his life depended on it. He is a RF. As to Nix and Cairo, neither of them are everyday guys. Up until the other day, Cairo hadn't even started and the only reason he did was because Rolen was sick. Laynce Nix is what he is, a bat off the bench who hardly plays. Dickerson and Gomes both play far more than Nix does.
• RiverRat13

  The Reds have a lead-off hitter in Stubbs who is a totally unproven quantity.
  Their 2nd and 4th hitters in the line-up have a proven track record of not finding first base.
  Their left field options either can get on base but have no power (Dickerson) or have power but can't find first base (Gomes)
  Their phenom was relatively a free swinger in the minors, a fact that has been exploited by pitchers on the major league level.
  Their catching duo will be lucky to have an OPS+ of 70 between them.
  
  There are two legit bats in the line-up, one of which is a mid-30s third baseman who probably can't be counted on to play more than 120 games. The other bat is my favorite player on the team, but his peripherals suggest he will come back to being just a good to very good hitter instead of the great hitter he was in '09.
  
  Now, I'm not saying Brook Jacoby is a great hitting coach, but when you put together a team like what I listed above, you are going to struggle to score runs no matter who is the hitting coach. The Reds need more guys who can find first base. Period.
• mhs95_06

  RiverRat13 wrote: The Reds have a lead-off hitter in Stubbs who is a totally unproven quantity.
  Their 2nd and 4th hitters in the line-up have a proven track record of not finding first base.
  Their left field options either can get on base but have no power (Dickerson) or have power but can't find first base (Gomes)
  Their phenom was relatively a free swinger in the minors, a fact that has been exploited by pitchers on the major league level.
  Their catching duo will be lucky to have an OPS+ of 70 between them.
  
  There are two legit bats in the line-up, one of which is a mid-30s third baseman who probably can't be counted on to play more than 120 games. The other bat is my favorite player on the team, but his peripherals suggest he will come back to being just a good to very good hitter instead of the great hitter he was in '09.
  
  Now, I'm not saying Brook Jacoby is a great hitting coach, but when you put together a team like what I listed above, you are going to struggle to score runs no matter who is the hitting coach. The Reds need more guys who can find first base. Period.

  And that is the point, they neew to get a hitting coach to help with plate approach and discipline so the team can get better and "find first base"!
• Mooney44Cards

  

  NNN wrote: 2) Understand that I'm a firm believer in the Earl Weaver school of "If someone can do something, I want him on the team". Certainly Kearns is not as good at anything as Jay Bruce, but I'd rather have his bat in the lineup (even as a stopgap) over Willy Taveras or Laynce Nix or Miguel Cairo.
  
  3) I wouldn't have signed him in the first place. Closers have a tendency to flame out big-time, leaving them as nothing more than the answer to "remember him?" As in: remember Billy Koch?
  
  4) Having youth isn't necessarily an indicator of team success, but there's a big difference between old and productive and old and unproductive.
  
  To the point of Encarnacion, the big question would be whether Scott Rolen on the obvious downside of his career would be better than what Encarnacion would likely become. I'm also not a fan of trading someone who might still blossom into an All-Star for someone who is quite obviously a short-term stopgap.

  Ok, lemme hop in my DeLorean and let them know not to sign Cordero back in 07 or whenever. I prefer discussing what this team can do to get better not griping over what they should or shouldn't have done in the past. It doesn't take a genius to after the fact say "they should have done this" or "they shouldn't have traded him". It takes a little more knowledge and insight to provide solutions to what you deem are the current problems on the club and how to fix them, even if we are just random nobodys on the internet who have no bearing on what will happen with a Major League Baseball team.
• CinciX12

  

  Dusty Baker is a saint!