Public sector sick days

• ppaw1999

  http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/six-figure-payouts-for-sick-leave-spur-outrage-calls-for-overhaul/ar-BBAY2yN?li=BBnb7Kz
  
  I think the sick days policy in the public sector is way out of hand. A large number of people working in the private sector do not have this benefit and I believe should not have it. If you have a job, working that job should be your responsibility. So much of our society is based on unhealthy activities. I can see having a safety net for serious illnesses. Unfortunately too much of people's ill health is simply a matter of an unhealthy lifestyle that they could work to prevent. I cannot agree with an unlimited amount of paid sick days in either the private or public sector. It is totally wrong for people in the public sector to expect others to pay taxes to cover all their paid sick days. Using teachers as an example I can't understand why the pupil is expected to attend classes x number of days or hours to pass that school year yet their teachers are not held to the same standards. My grandson's teacher has routinely missed days on a weekly basis. It is an added expense for the taxpayers to be paying out for substitute teachers. I believe after a set and reasonable amount of paid sick days, anything above that amount should be covered by taking the pay out of the teacher's personal pay. This should be true in all public sector jobs.
• gut

  I saw that article a few days ago. How in the world does someone accumulate 1250 sick days? Over a 30-yr career, that's over 40 days a year. If it's a form of disability insurance, well the way insurance works is there's no benefit if there's no claim.
  
  Nobody should get anything like that. Paid time off should be just that regardless of the use, and should cover time for both vacation AND several sick days. You can have a longer term sick or disability policy, but it should just be capped and not carry over and accumulate.
• Spock

  

  Well one thing....if you accumulated that many days...you never took a sick day.
  
  In regards to teachers......accumulating a sick bank is kind of an incentive to not take days off. So your opinion doesnt really reflect what is actually going on.
• ppaw1999

  Spock;1852869 wrote:Well one thing....if you accumulated that many days...you never took a sick day.
  
  In regards to teachers......accumulating a sick bank is kind of an incentive to not take days off. So your opinion doesnt really reflect what is actually going on.

  So what is really going on? If you have a job to do shouldn't that be incentive enough? If it isn't maybe you are in the wrong line of work?
• ppaw1999

  gut;1852868 wrote:I saw that article a few days ago. How in the world does someone accumulate 1250 sick days? Over a 30-yr career, that's over 40 days a year. If it's a form of disability insurance, well the way insurance works is there's no benefit if there's no claim.
  
  Nobody should get anything like that. Paid time off should be just that regardless of the use, and should cover time for both vacation AND several sick days. You can have a longer term sick or disability policy, but it should just be capped and not carry over and accumulate.

  What I was trying to say only you said it better.
• Ironman92

  

  I'm in my 19th year of my teaching job in which I travel 130 miles round trip. I've missed 1 day this year (funeral) and have 193 sick days built up. Once I get to 200 they pay me a nice sum for every day over. I'm looking forward to a very nice bonus check the last check of August every year....God willing.
  
  I have teaching cohorts with 15-35 years of experience and virtually no days built up. I don't condone or understand it.
• mcburg93

  

  gut;1852868 wrote:I saw that article a few days ago. How in the world does someone accumulate 1250 sick days? Over a 30-yr career, that's over 40 days a year. If it's a form of disability insurance, well the way insurance works is there's no benefit if there's no claim.
  
  Nobody should get anything like that. Paid time off should be just that regardless of the use, and should cover time for both vacation AND several sick days. You can have a longer term sick or disability policy, but it should just be capped and not carry over and accumulate.

  
  
  It was a 46 year career, so it would be around 27 days a year.
  
  I tried to find an article that was in a local paper a few years back about a guy that worked at the prison for 38 years. He never missed a day and banked his over time. He was paid some outrageous amount, I am going off memory so I could be wrong, 400k+.
  
  I dont have an issue with these guys banking their time. They earned it by not missing a day, they should have some sort of bonus for that alone.
• mcburg93

  

  gut;1852868 wrote:I saw that article a few days ago. How in the world does someone accumulate 1250 sick days? Over a 30-yr career, that's over 40 days a year. If it's a form of disability insurance, well the way insurance works is there's no benefit if there's no claim.
  
  Nobody should get anything like that. Paid time off should be just that regardless of the use, and should cover time for both vacation AND several sick days. You can have a longer term sick or disability policy, but it should just be capped and not carry over and accumulate.

  
  
  It was a 46 year career, so it would be around 27 days a year.
  
  I tried to find an article that was in a local paper a few years back about a guy that worked at the prison for 38 years. He never missed a day and banked his over time. He was paid some outrageous amount, I am going off memory so I could be wrong, 400k+.
  
  I dont have an issue with these guys banking their time. They earned it by not missing a day, they should have some sort of bonus for that alone.
  
  I would think the state would be happy these people are banking their time. They are making money off that money those people are not taking.
• ppaw1999

  I am curious if this is mostly an union benefit. Maybe I am old fashioned but I was brought up to believe a days pay for a days work.
  I agree with gut that there should be a cap on payed days. I would think not getting paid should be incentive enough to make you want to go to work. I can understand a limited number of paid sick days. It would be cheaper than paying overtime. But I would think that having to pay a bonus for just showing up for your job is over kill.
• Spock

  

  There is not one public school teacher that gets paid for all their days. My guess is that most get between 50 and 100 days.
  
  This guy was a college administrator that probably negotiated that
• Zunardo

  Sounds like this applies mostly to state employees. Yes, it is quite generous. Yes, the extreme examples are very rare, some of which are negotiated benefits for executives.
  
  I have no idea how city or county employees structure their sick leave program.
  
  In the federal government, all career employees (including management) earn a max of 104 hours sick leave per year, or 2 weeks and 3 days. However, that leave is not "cashed out" in retirement, because it can only be paid for approved illness or other FMLA usage. The "benefit" of unused sick leave at retirement, is that it is converted to months of service, which can increase your monthly retirement annuity slightly.
  
  I've heard of USPS employees who had 50 years of service retired with a little over 5000 hours sick leave. I retired last year with 33 years service, and 3300 hours sick leave, which added 17 months of service to my annuity calculation. I figured it gives me an additional $50 a month. Yeah, I rarely used sick leave, mostly for two surgeries I had.
  
  I know a couple of managers who got ticked off their bosses at the end of their career, and just called in sick indefinitely, then had their retirement papers filled out for the date they knew their sick leave would expired. One guy I worked with was off a little over a year. Had I done that, I could have been off something like 20 months before pulling the trigger.
• ppaw1999

  Spock;1852922 wrote:There is not one public school teacher that gets paid for all their days. My guess is that most get between 50 and 100 days.
  
  This guy was a college administrator that probably negotiated that

  I believe the average school years for students is around 185 days. Getting paid for between 50 and 100 days still seems overly high.
• ppaw1999

  Zunardo I think your sick leave was extreme. My "sick leave" was being allowed to take one of my paid vacations and using it on a daily basis. Basically getting 5 paid sick days a year. Maybe I am just jealous. I know people who belong to unions in the private sector and none of them have anything close to what you had.
• Benny The Jet

  

  I'm a teacher, I've banked around 50 sick days in my 6 years of teaching. It would be more, but whenever my kids are sick or have Dr. appointments...I'm the one to stay home. My wife's job doesn't have paid sick days...so I take over and she works. I think we max out at like 100 or maybe even 180, I'm not sure.
  
  I've only had a career as a teacher, and I'm elementary, so it's like 18 women and 2 guys in my building. This may sound dumb, but what happens when a woman gets pregnant in the private sector? Do they get paid maternity leave? I know for teachers, at least our district, you only get paid for the sick days you use. So for example, if you're a new teacher, and don't have much banked up....you may get paid for a week or 2 of leave, and the rest is unpaid. Not super awesome for them.
• Ironman92

  

  During my summers in college I worked for the county highway department...those guys didn't earn high salaries but damn their union had them building up days quickly. Guys would work many hours during bad weather working on roads and in the summer there were some that I rarely saw all season.
  
  Mine of course is union. My first year I got pulled in by the union heads and told I had to file for pay deviation because I was sometimes using my planning time to watch other teacher's classes. I told them I would not. My stuff was caught up and my fellow teachers every once in a while needed someone to watch their class....I was just helping out. Maybe later in my years I would need the favor returned. They were ticked but I didn't let them bully me. That same school had been through 9 principals in 13 years. So many terrible staff members.
• Zunardo

  ppaw1999;1852930 wrote:Zunardo I think your sick leave was extreme. My "sick leave" was being allowed to take one of my paid vacations and using it on a daily basis. Basically getting 5 paid sick days a year. Maybe I am just jealous. I know people who belong to unions in the private sector and none of them have anything close to what you had.

  ppaw1999, it depends on your perspective. I view it as normal. Of course, I grew up with two parents who started federal service as civilians in 1960, and the benefit hadn't changed on iota when I entered into it in 1983. We were never rich, but it was dependable and solid.
  
  I understand those in the private sector might see it differently. Good vacation leave (we call it annual) and sick leave, good insurance - but the pay in general has been better in the private sector for comparable work
  
  Another thing that private sector unions offer is more flexibility with overtime, and not having to deal with the code of ethics.
  
  Case in point: recently a mail carrier was injured badly while he was on the outside of this vehicle, private car hit him, severing one leg and mangling another. Some fellow postal employees started a GoFundMe campaign to help him and his family out with the massive bills - then USPS officials stepped in and had the campaign cancelled, because the ethics rules prohibit any sort of solicitation for contributions by fellow employees, beyond something like a baby shower or wedding gift. A private-sector employee probably wouldn't have that issue.
  

  Benny The Jet;1852935 wrote: This may sound dumb, but what happens when a woman gets pregnant in the private sector? Do they get paid maternity leave? I know for teachers, at least our district, you only get paid for the sick days you use. So for example, if you're a new teacher, and don't have much banked up....you may get paid for a week or 2 of leave, and the rest is unpaid. Not super awesome for them.

  I'd say it's the same - no seniority, no leave built up. As I understand it, the Family Medical Leave Act just ensures the absence is protected from issuing discipline, and that the employee still has their job when they return after having the baby - but their absence would be still unpaid. Pregnancies aside, that's why we always preached to the young whippersnappers coming in, "Don't call in for every little thing - build up that sick leave balance for the day when you might really need it, heaven forbid."
  
  Same issue for federal employees who have babies or have medical absences early in their careers. My sister started with the Dept of Defense in 1989 when she was 7 months pregnant. When her son was born, she took off for a month, but she had only a day or two of sick leave built up. However, my father (also Dept of Defense) was able to donate some of his annual to her for her to have some paid leave while she was out.
• Al Bundy

  ppaw1999;1852930 wrote:Zunardo I think your sick leave was extreme. My "sick leave" was being allowed to take one of my paid vacations and using it on a daily basis. Basically getting 5 paid sick days a year. Maybe I am just jealous. I know people who belong to unions in the private sector and none of them have anything close to what you had.

  How many vacation days did you get a year?
• GOONx19

  

  I work for a non-profit hospital and start at 24 days PTO per year. It increases with each few years of experience. All holidays have to come from that bank, though.
• ppaw1999

  Al Bundy;1852941 wrote:How many vacation days did you get a year?

  5 weeks vacation after 25 years of service. 1 personal day per year.
• ppaw1999

  This may sound dumb, but what happens when a woman gets pregnant in the private sector?
  
  Most private sector that I know of don't have sick days to build on. Usually an unpaid leave with guarantee of having a job when they come back.
• GOONx19

  

  ppaw1999;1852947 wrote:This may sound dumb, but what happens when a woman gets pregnant in the private sector?
  
  Most private sector that I know of don't have sick days to build on. Usually an unpaid leave with guarantee of having a job when they come back.

  Ours requires they utilize banked PTO until they run out, and then they get unpaid leave for the remainder of the 3 months.
• Spock

  

  ppaw1999;1852926 wrote:I believe the average school years for students is around 185 days. Getting paid for between 50 and 100 days still seems overly high.

  That number isn't for a year. That's after 35 years
• ppaw1999

  Ironman92 that is quite a turnover for principals. Do you think the problem is the union or administration or something else?
• Spock

  

  Most teachers sick days are accumulated monthly. When you first start you have zero. You usually get 1.5 days a month. You build up to 200+ by never using them. The OP falls short of actually praising most teachers for This.
• ppaw1999

  Spock;1852950 wrote:That number isn't for a year. That's after 35 years

  If you don't mind me asking how many paid sick days per year are you entitled to?