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Gender Identity Scenario

  • like_that
    I am sure this thread will turn into a classic OC thread, but I am interested to see how you all would handle this. I officiate wrestling, and an interesting scenario came up during our officials meeting today.

    A "female" wrestler is coming to weigh in and she says she identifies as a male. By rule females and males must weigh in separately. Males have to wear an undergarment covering the buttocks and groin region and females have to wear a garment covering their breasts in addition to the undergarment.

    What would you do?
  • BRF
    Quit officiating wrestling.

    j/k

    That is a tough one.
  • Ironman92
    What does her/his coach say? Must that be designated per state or national rules?
  • Rotinaj
    High school or younger I'm guessing? If so then I'd definitely make the person cover up top. Probably isn't even legal for an underage female to be topless even for weigh ins no matter what they identify as.
  • Ironman92
    If it is legal I'd have another official or coach there while it happened.
  • Ironman92
    Also....is there an advantage of some sorts for her to weigh in "as a guy"? I don't understand the designation.
  • like_that
    Rotinaj;1826764 wrote:High school or younger I'm guessing? If so then I'd definitely make the person cover up top. Probably isn't even legal for an underage female to be topless even for weigh ins no matter what they identify as.
    High school for me, but these rules also apply to junior high. That's the thing though, if he/she identifies as a a male, how can I tell her/him that she needs to cover up?
    Ironman92;1826765 wrote:If it is legal I'd have another official or coach there while it happened.
    Yes it is legal, and coaches always are at weigh ins, unless they are shitty coaches.
    Ironman92;1826767 wrote:Also....is there an advantage of some sorts for her to weigh in "as a guy"? I don't understand the designation.
    No advantage at all.
  • Con_Alma
    I don't think the NFHS rules differentiate between what a wrestler identifies as vs. what they are. The rules state females must be weighed in separately and have a garment covering her breasts. I would follow the rules.
  • like_that
    Con_Alma;1826773 wrote:I don't think the NFHS rules differentiate between what a wrestler identifies as vs. what they are. The rules state females must be weighed in separately and have a garment covering her breasts. I would follow the rules.
    So with this logic, you let the identifying male weigh in with the males.
  • Con_Alma
    POssibly but not necessarily. Unless it's obvious she is a female, in which case I'm following the rules and forcing her to weigh in with the females, I'm not checking her to see if she's a female or male. If she gets in line with the males and doesn't appear as if she's breaking a rule, then I'm not aware anything is being done any different than usual.

    If she approaches me as an official and tells me she identifies as a male, then there's reasonable suspicion that she may not be a male and I'm telling her I'm following the rules and weighing her in separately. I may even ask the coach if they are male or female. The rules require separate weigh ins for each as you know. That coach has to know what gender their athlete is.

    Males don't identify themselves at weigh ins other than showing up when called. If they feel the need to state how they identify then there's reason to believe they aren't genetically what they made a point to identify as and it warrants a step to enforce the rule.
  • like_that
    Con_Alma;1826780 wrote:POssibly but not necessarily. Unless it's obvious she is a female, in which case I'm following the rules and forcing her to weigh in with the females, I'm not checking her to see if she's a female or male. If she gets in line with the males and doesn't appear as if she's breaking a rule, then I'm not aware anything is being done any different than usual.

    If she approaches me as an official and tells me she identifies as a male, then there's reasonable suspicion that she may not be a male and I'm telling her I'm following the rules and weighing her in separately. I may even ask the coach if they are male or female. The rules require separate weigh ins for each as you know. That coach has to know what gender their athlete is.

    Males don't identify themselves at weigh ins other than showing up when called. If they feel the need to state how they identify then there's reason to believe they aren't genetically what they made a point to identify as and it warrants a step to enforce the rule.
    I feel in this scenario if you see a female looking contestant in the line for weigh ins with the males, most officials would inform him/her that he/she has to win in separately. This is when he/she could state their identity as a male.
  • Con_Alma
    like_that;1826781 wrote:I feel in this scenario if you see a female looking contestant in the line for weigh ins with the males, most officials would inform him/her that he/she has to win in separately. This is when he/she could state their identity as a male.
    If there is a question, a coach needs to know who the individual is. It's part of the rules. It should be on their formal school paperwork.

    If you have a concern or are unsure then you have to be made aware so that you can ensure the rules are applied properly. I wouldn't make this a bigger issue than it needs to be. If they look like they are breaking a rule on the mat, what would you do? You have an obligation to enforce the rules. Make a decision based on the information available and your experience and stand on it.

    The point is, if they make it a point to tell you how they identify, then they have given reasonable concern that they may be breaking a rule. If they show up for weigh-ins and nothing out of the ordinary is evident, weigh them in. If there's an obvious concern, then you need clarification from the coach on the legal gender of the individual.

    Do everything reasonable within your power to enforce the rules and maintain the integrity of the sport. You can't do any more than that.
  • Spock
    You don't deal with the athlete directly. You deal with the coaches. Adults are in charge. Above that tell the kid that they weigh in based on their birth certificate
  • Belly35
    What the mind thinks and the body reveals are two different aspect. Play the sport as a boy (mind) do the weighting in as a girl (body
  • Wally
    I would require a parent to make the decision to let her weigh-in topless.
  • Heretic
    Without putting much thought into it, my line of thinking would be as such:

    1. Whether it be her personally or her coaches, mention that while she identifies as a male; physically, she is a female who would be potentially putting herself in a situation where she'd be disrobing in front of teen boys who may or may not look at things the same way -- potentially leading to harassment.

    2. Offer a separate weigh-in for her where only her, officials and (optionally) coaches are present.
  • sleeper
    Heretic;1826863 wrote:Without putting much thought into it, my line of thinking would be as such:

    1. Whether it be her personally or her coaches, mention that while she identifies as a male; physically, she is a female who would be potentially putting herself in a situation where she'd be disrobing in front of teen boys who may or may not look at things the same way -- potentially leading to harassment.

    2. Offer a separate weigh-in for her where only her, officials and (optionally) coaches are present.
    SJW's would say on Point 1 that teen boys should be taught not to harrass and to treat everyone with respect.
  • like_that
    All solid takes. I am thinking he best route to take is speaking to the coach. Initially I thought asking for a doctors note, but I can see that causing an uproar. Realistically, I would probably just ask a more senior official (this is only my 2nd year) to handle it [emoji23].

    I hope it doesn't happen though. I can just see the huffpo headline now regardless of what I do.

    "Virginia ref discriminates against transgender athlete."
  • Ironman92
    like_that;1826919 wrote:All solid takes. I am thinking he best route to take is speaking to the coach. Initially I thought asking for a doctors note, but I can see that causing an uproar. Realistically, I would probably just ask a more senior official (this is only my 2nd year) to handle it [emoji23].

    I hope it doesn't happen though. I can just see the huffpo headline now regardless of what I do.

    "Virginia ref discriminates against transgender athlete."
    Nah, we could link this thread and save you. It's been surprisingly mature.
  • Classyposter58
    like_that;1826919 wrote:All solid takes. I am thinking he best route to take is speaking to the coach. Initially I thought asking for a doctors note, but I can see that causing an uproar. Realistically, I would probably just ask a more senior official (this is only my 2nd year) to handle it [emoji23].

    I hope it doesn't happen though. I can just see the huffpo headline now regardless of what I do.

    "Virginia ref discriminates against transgender athlete."
    I only ask that you wear a Make America Great Again hat while making this ruling and speaking to the coach
  • sleeper
    To sidetrack a bit, what incentive is there for male athletes to identify as a male? Obviously not for the pros because women's sports pay nothing, but for college admission and scholarships it makes a lot of sense to compete as a man against girls than a man against boys.

    Even marginal male athletes would dominate the women's game and snatch up spots meant for women in college. It'll be interesting to see the SJW clash on women's issues and trans issues; just like how SJWs defend Islam despite it being regressive as hell towards women and gays.
  • QuakerOats
    Classyposter58;1826927 wrote:I only ask that you wear a Make America Great Again hat while making this ruling and speaking to the coach

    thumbs up
  • like_that
    sleeper;1826961 wrote:To sidetrack a bit, what incentive is there for male athletes to identify as a male? Obviously not for the pros because women's sports pay nothing, but for college admission and scholarships it makes a lot of sense to compete as a man against girls than a man against boys.

    Even marginal male athletes would dominate the women's game and snatch up spots meant for women in college. It'll be interesting to see the SJW clash on women's issues and trans issues; just like how SJWs defend Islam despite it being regressive as hell towards women and gays.
    There was already controversy in some state where a male identified as a female in track and field. He/she was all state and everyone said it was unfair.

    I said before I am going to LOL when some of these 6'6+ guys play girls basketball.
  • Iliketurtles
    like_that;1826979 wrote:There was already controversy in some state where a male identified as a female in track and field. He/she was all state and everyone said it was unfair.

    I said before I am going to LOL when some of these 6'6+ guys play girls basketball.
    Lol yeah I remember that dude I think he got like 3rd in one event and 6th in another while competing against women.
  • Ironman92
    I like in this past Olympics in the 800m women's track final the "girl" that won was built like Zeke Elliott and the "girl" taking silver was built like Von Miller....and the bronze medalist was maybe 100 lbs