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Defeating deeply held beliefs

  • sleeper
    Do you believe it is possible to remove/change deeply held beliefs from an individual? If so, what strategies do you find effective in doing so? If not, why do you believe so?

    Most of you have seen/read my strategy on how to change the beliefs of an individual and I'm not sure my strategy is very effective. I'm looking for new ideas to improve my ability to persuade people into my line of thinking.

    Thoughts? : thumbup:
  • vball10set
    anything short of mind altering drugs is worthless

    /boomer'd
  • like_that
    sleeper;1622494 wrote:Do you believe it is possible to remove/change deeply held beliefs from an individual? If so, what strategies do you find effective in doing so? If not, why do you believe so?

    Most of you have seen/read my strategy on how to change the beliefs of an individual and I'm not sure my strategy is very effective. I'm looking for new ideas to improve my ability to persuade people into my line of thinking.

    Thoughts? : thumbup:
    Unfortunately no. Some people just drink far too much kool aid to the point that you can destroy their views with facts, but they will still be stubborn to their view.
  • queencitybuckeye
    If some of your views weren't ridiculous, that could help.
  • sleeper
    like_that;1622496 wrote:Unfortunately no. Some people just drink far too much kool aid to the point that you can destroy their views with facts, but they will still be stubborn to their view.
    Do you think ignorance is the primary driver of this? I don't understand why people are so stubborn in their views; it logically does not make any sense to maintain a broken line of thinking just because you were initially anchored into that belief.
  • vdubb96
    I'll change your beliefs for $20
  • sleeper
    queencitybuckeye;1622497 wrote:If some of your views weren't ridiculous, that could help.
    I would argue that is part of my current strategy. When presented with a logically flawed opposing position, merely taken the middle ground position to sway the masses allows too much overlapping of facts, logic and evidence. Taken the extreme contrary position is much more viable because at the end of the argument the person has no choice but to at least move from their current 'extreme' position to at least some step towards your position. That is progress, which is at least something, especially given how entrenched most people are in their beliefs.
  • Con_Alma
    Yes I believe it is possible.

    I don't employ any strategies because I don't attempt to change someone's beliefs.
  • queencitybuckeye
    sleeper;1622503 wrote:I would argue that is part of my current strategy. When presented with a logically flawed opposing position, merely taken the middle ground position to sway the masses allows too much overlapping of facts, logic and evidence. Taken the extreme contrary position is much more viable because at the end of the argument the person has no choice but to at least move from their current 'extreme' position to at least some step towards your position. That is progress, which is at least something, especially given how entrenched most people are in their beliefs.
    Of course they have a choice. They can see that your argument is at least as flawed as theirs, therefore, there's no reason to change. And in that case, they're right.
  • SportsAndLady
    Con_Alma;1622516 wrote:Yes I believe it is possible.

    I don't employ any strategies because I don't attempt to change someone's beliefs.
    Con Alma'd
  • sleeper
    queencitybuckeye;1622519 wrote:Of course they have a choice. They can see that your argument is at least as flawed as theirs, therefore, there's no reason to change. And in that case, they're right.
    By taking a position counter to mine, your baseline logic is flawed by definition. The issue is getting the other party to see how flawed their logic is and submit to the correct position.
  • sleeper
    SportsAndLady;1622523 wrote:Con Alma'd
    Indeed.
  • vball10set
    The idiocy continues...
  • lhslep134
    sleeper;1622501 wrote:Do you think ignorance is the primary driver of this? I don't understand why people are so stubborn in their views; it logically does not make any sense to maintain a broken line of thinking just because you were initially anchored into that belief.
    Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.
  • Heretic
    lhslep134;1622531 wrote:Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.
    This.

    The best solution is forced euthanasia. I mean, words and stuff is always good for shits and giggles, but if you truly want to solve people, you finish them.
  • queencitybuckeye
    sleeper;1622526 wrote:By taking a position counter to mine, your baseline logic is flawed by definition.
    Your topics are often interesting and thought-provoking, then you go into troll mode with statements like this. Why?
  • vball10set
    Heretic;1622532 wrote:This.

    The best solution is forced euthanasia. I mean, words and stuff is always good for shits and giggles, but if you truly want to solve people, you finish them.
    So sleeper should just off himself?
  • sleeper
    lhslep134;1622531 wrote:Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.
    This is probably the bigger offender. Emotions have a way of disrupting even the most intelligent humans on the planet, particularly the emotion of fear.
  • vball10set
    sleeper;1622537 wrote:Emotions have a way of disrupting even the most intelligent humans on the planet...
    I think you just answered your question :cool:
  • sleeper
    queencitybuckeye;1622534 wrote:Your topics are often interesting and thought-provoking, then you go into troll mode with statements like this. Why?
    I'm not sure its troll statement rather my own perspective. I derive my thoughts, ideas, beliefs from a logical position regardless of its morality, popularity, or emotional response. In the event, on certain topics, that I do not have sufficient data to form a rational opinion, only then is the above statement that I made wrong. However, most of the time, in most scenarios, a counter position to mine is indeed flawed. Call it ego, call it arrogance, disagree all you want; but that is my perspective and that is my reality.
  • Con_Alma
    sleeper;1622537 wrote:This is probably the bigger offender. Emotions have a way of disrupting even the most intelligent humans on the planet, particularly the emotion of fear.
    I would also include love with a similar strength of impact from an emotional perspective.
  • gut
    Confirmation bias, among other behavioral psychology explanations. Basically, you'd have to pretend to be a like-minded idiot in order to gain their trust so that you can trick them into learning something.

    In real life, I don't care about educating my barber...I just want a good haircut. And I just want my cleaning lady to do a good job scrubbing my toilets - if I were to convince her of the scores of hidden taxes Democrats are dumping on her, then she might want to be paid more :)
  • sleeper
    Con_Alma;1622545 wrote:I would also include love with a similar strength of impact from an emotional perspective.
    Agreed. Love is extremely irrational.
  • Con_Alma
    Only using the left side of the brain to make decisions denies the individual of the full capacity and process available to them as a human. The most exhaustive decision making process a human can make should come from a a right brain /left brain blended, cross-over process.
  • BR1986FB
    Heretic;1622532 wrote:This.

    The best solution is forced euthanasia. I mean, words and stuff is always good for shits and giggles, but if you truly want to solve people, you finish them.
    I live by these words and agree 100%.