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Chief of Police: Marijuana killed 37 people on the first day of legalization...

  • Fly4Fun
    justincredible;1585731 wrote:Depends on the price difference and overall sketchiness of where you buy. If it were considerably cheaper and I had access to a non-sketchy place to buy I would stick to the black market. Not all black market dealings happen in dark alleys.
    Black markets are for poor people.

    Had to be said.

    But seriously. I don't think the price difference would be enough for me to venture into the black market. If the price of the product was too unreasonable I just wouldn't partake.
  • Tiernan
    I thought this thread was about how stupid most cops are ...not about legalizing ganja. And just for the record most cops would have to pass a test just to be able to take another test that proved them to be stupid.
  • queencitybuckeye
    Says the person too stupid to be caught by those idiots.
  • Pick6
    Fly4Fun;1585767 wrote:Black markets are for poor people.

    Had to be said.

    But seriously. I don't think the price difference would be enough for me to venture into the black market. If the price of the product was too unreasonable I just wouldn't partake.
    well this thread went just about how I'd expect. Some of you care way too much about something being legal that you already do in the comfort of your home with no worries.

    Anywho, someone posted the price of pot being sold legally in CO is expected to "stablize" out at around $30 1/8th. I guess I would assume that's pretty standard stuff like mids? You can get 1/8th of mids in CrAkron for $15. Def an incentive to go black market if you have a trustworthy dealer. "Trustworthy dealer" lol...I think thats an oxymoron.
  • Fly4Fun
    Pick6;1585838 wrote:well this thread went just about how I'd expect. Some of you care way too much about something being legal that you already do in the comfort of your home with no worries.

    Anywho, someone posted the price of pot being sold legally in CO is expected to "stablize" out at around $30 1/8th. I guess I would assume that's pretty standard stuff like mids? You can get 1/8th of mids in CrAkron for $15. Def an incentive to go black market if you have a trustworthy dealer. "Trustworthy dealer" lol...I think thats an oxymoron.
    Actually I don't smoke weed since it is illegal. I did smoke every once in a while in college (a few times a year), but have not since I graduated. I just find it ridiculous that it is illegal for reasons that have already been discussed and I don't feel the need to restate.
  • justincredible
    Pick6;1585838 wrote:well this thread went just about how I'd expect. Some of you care way too much about something being legal that you already do in the comfort of your home with no worries.
    Sorry that I care about all of the people sitting in jail/prison for a victimless crimes. Sorry I care about the innocent civilians killed in no-knock drug raids on the wrong houses. Sorry I care that I could end up in jail for possessing a plant.

    I may be a libertarian/anarchist, but contrary to popular belief I do care about more than just myself.
  • justincredible
    Collateral damage in the war on a plant.

    http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-war-victim/
  • justincredible
    Botched raids thanks to the drug war.

    http://www.cato.org/raidmap
  • Pick6
    justincredible;1585843 wrote:Sorry that I care about all of the people sitting in jail/prison for a victimless crimes. Sorry I care about the innocent civilians killed in no-knock drug raids on the wrong houses. Sorry I care that I could end up in jail for possessing a plant.

    I may be a libertarian/anarchist, but contrary to popular belief I do care about more than just myself.
    none of those scenarios you posted are exclusive to marijuana.
  • Pick6
    Fly4Fun;1585842 wrote:Actually I don't smoke weed since it is illegal. I did smoke every once in a while in college (a few times a year), but have not since I graduated. I just find it ridiculous that it is illegal for reasons that have already been discussed and I don't feel the need to restate.
    The first part of my post was just speaking generally, not directed at you. The second part was, however.
  • justincredible
    Pick6;1585852 wrote:none of those scenarios you posted are exclusive to marijuana.
    You're right. Might as well not worry about it then.
  • justincredible
    BTW, I believe that all drugs should be legalized, not just marijuana. I also believe prostitution should be legal. Gambling. Etc. All consensual "crime" should be legal.
  • Tiernan
    queencitybuckeye;1585815 wrote:Says the person too stupid to be caught by those idiots.

    It would be "stupid enough to be caught..." Dumbass. Sounds like the idiots can't catch me the way you post it moron. You know better than to try and trade trash talk with me the smartest person on the OC don't you queen bee?
  • Sonofanump
    justincredible;1585861 wrote:BTW, I believe that all drugs should be legalized, not just marijuana. I also believe prostitution should be legal. Gambling. Etc. All consensual "crime" should be legal.
    Just a thought. Those on drugs that prevent them from being productive members of society would need some sort of income to provide for their addiction. What I read about most in the papers is that those who need money for drugs resort to victim crime, i.e. robbery, theft, assault to gain access to good or cash to provide for such habits. If those on drugs lived in a vacuum, I would be fine with it. I don't need a meth junkie breaking into my house threatening my family and property for their addictive habit.
  • Tiernan
    I myself don't do it but hang with some very productive members of society who take the edge off with a joint or two every single day. They've had a regular "dealer" for years that has ties within the Cols FD and functions at a highly recognized level. None of them has ever committed another crime to support their habit nor have they tried to "recruit" additional users to defray their costs. CO and WA are simply 10 yrs ahead of where the entire USA will be eventually. All of us will be able to smoke a joint at our gay friends wedding anywhere in America by 2025 people...deal with it and lets get to concentrating on fixing some shit that really matters.
  • justincredible
    Sonofanump;1585918 wrote:Just a thought. Those on drugs that prevent them from being productive members of society would need some sort of income to provide for their addiction. What I read about most in the papers is that those who need money for drugs resort to victim crime, i.e. robbery, theft, assault to gain access to good or cash to provide for such habits. If those on drugs lived in a vacuum, I would be fine with it. I don't need a meth junkie breaking into my house threatening my family and property for their addictive habit.
    Right, the extremely small number of drug users that resort to this are committing actual crime. And they are going to do it whether the drugs are legal or illegal. This is an overblown problem pumped up by drug warriors to keep everyone fearful of all drug users. Because 1% of drug users will resort to crime to feed their habit we must turn then other 99% in to criminals. Legalizing drugs will not cause a mad rush of people to run out and try meth or heroin, either. I actually read a good article the other day about the overblown "addictiveness" of meth. The numbers were basically something like 96% of people that have ever used meth use it less than once a month.
  • I Wear Pants
    Sonofanump;1585918 wrote:Just a thought. Those on drugs that prevent them from being productive members of society would need some sort of income to provide for their addiction. What I read about most in the papers is that those who need money for drugs resort to victim crime, i.e. robbery, theft, assault to gain access to good or cash to provide for such habits. If those on drugs lived in a vacuum, I would be fine with it. I don't need a meth junkie breaking into my house threatening my family and property for their addictive habit.
    Legalization actually can reduce those problems. A meth junkie right now can't really ask for help because they'll get arrested. Whereas an alcoholic can say "I've got a problem I need help". Now not everyone with a problem does that but a number do.

    Also I'd look to places like Portugal which changed tactics from "War on Drugs" to more decriminalization and treating addiction as a medical issue rather than a criminal one and they're seeing far greater success than they had been.
  • justincredible
    I Wear Pants;1585941 wrote:Legalization actually can reduce those problems. A meth junkie right now can't really ask for help because they'll get arrested. Whereas an alcoholic can say "I've got a problem I need help". Now not everyone with a problem does that but a number do.

    Also I'd look to places like Portugal which changed tactics from "War on Drugs" to more decriminalization and treating addiction as a medical issue rather than a criminal one and they're seeing far greater success than they had been.
    Yep.
  • Sonofanump
    OK. So legalization will not increase supply and use?
  • Glory Days
    I Wear Pants;1585693 wrote:Same could be said for tobacco, alcohol, etc but we don't see a very large black market for those items. Sure some people do it but most people go to the grocery, liquor store, or gas station for their booze because the taxes are actually a small price to pay for peace of mind. Hell we had a large black market for alcohol while it was illegal and it basically disappeared the second people could buy from businessman in stores rather than from criminals in back alleys.
    The drug black market is much more established than the alcohol one was back in the day. What are the tax rates or alcohol and tobacco, because it sounds like the taxes for marijuana are much higher.
  • Glory Days
    justincredible;1585846 wrote:Botched raids thanks to the drug war.

    http://www.cato.org/raidmap
    which came first, the militarized gang member/drug dealer or the militarized police?
  • Glory Days
    justincredible;1585940 wrote:Right, the extremely small number of drug users that resort to this are committing actual crime. And they are going to do it whether the drugs are legal or illegal. This is an overblown problem pumped up by drug warriors to keep everyone fearful of all drug users. Because 1% of drug users will resort to crime to feed their habit we must turn then other 99% in to criminals. Legalizing drugs will not cause a mad rush of people to run out and try meth or heroin, either. I actually read a good article the other day about the overblown "addictiveness" of meth. The numbers were basically something like 96% of people that have ever used meth use it less than once a month.
    1%?????

    http://www.bjs.gov/content/dcf/duc.cfm
    In 2004, 17% of state prisoners and 18% of federal inmates said they committed their current offense to obtain money for drugs. These percentages represent a slight increase for federal prisoners (16% in 1997) and a slight decrease for state prisoners (19% in 1997).
    The Uniform Crime Reporting Program (UCR) of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) reported that in 2007, 3.9% of the 14,831 homicides in which circumstances were known were narcotics related.
    About 26% of the victims of violence reported that the offender was using drugs or alcohol
    In the 2004 Survey of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional Facilities, 32% of state prisoners and 26% of federal prisoners said they had committed their current offense while under the influence of drugs. Among state prisoners, drug offenders (44%) and property offenders (39%) reported the highest incidence of drug use at the time of the offense. Among federal prisoners, drug offenders (32%) and violent offenders (24%) were the most likely to report drug use at the time of their crimes.
  • I Wear Pants
    Glory Days;1585974 wrote:The drug black market is much more established than the alcohol one was back in the day. What are the tax rates or alcohol and tobacco, because it sounds like the taxes for marijuana are much higher.
    The drug black market has also had a much longer time to develop and drugs have been prosecuted more severely both legally and socially than alcohol was.
    Glory Days;1585976 wrote:which came first, the militarized gang member/drug dealer or the militarized police?
    What gave the gang members and drug dealers the funds to be able to militarize? The drug war.
  • Glory Days
    I Wear Pants;1586003 wrote:
    What gave the gang members and drug dealers the funds to be able to militarize? The drug war.
    Elaborate please....

    The CIA paying drug cartels?
    The drug war created more drug users and thus allowed cartels to provide the supply?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/annabelle-buggle/after-40year-fight-illici_b_3623714.html
    Over the past decade, the number of deaths due to drugs has doubled, as other causes of death have declined
    so it has nothing to do with the users?
    The financial and economic drain of a drug habit is substantial. A heroin user who spends $50 a day on the drug could save $180,000 over a decade, were it not for their addiction. And cocaine abusers with a $75-a-day habit would save $250,000 over ten years. This money, which could have been reinvested in the economy, instead enters the illegal drug market and funds drug production and distribution operations on a massive scale.
  • justincredible
    Glory Days;1586001 wrote:1%?????

    http://www.bjs.gov/content/dcf/duc.cfm
    I was throwing a number out there to show that it's a very small percent. It may be higher than 1% (of ALL drug users, not just those in prison) but throwing out stats from prisoners is going to convince me. The vast majority of drug users are not in prison.