Poll: Thoughts on Lannce Armstrong?

• gut

  So what say you? He's been suspected of cheating for a long-time, and it would appear the case against him is as strong as it gets short of the needle sticking out of his arm. He has, at this point, been stripped of all 7 TdF titles, officially DQ'd in those events.
  
  We'll run a poll and then I'll comment later.
• sleeper

  

  I don't think he doped and he is an American hero and the best cyclist of all time.
• Rotinaj

  

  I honestly don't give a shit if he doped. I'm with sleeper, the guy is a hero in my book.
• BORIStheCrusher

  

  They all cheat, but nobody can name a cyclist other than Armstrong.
• Rotinaj

  

  BORIStheCrusher;1254719 wrote:They all cheat, but nobody can name a cyclist other than Armstrong.

  Peewee Herman.
• sleeper

  

  BORIStheCrusher;1254719 wrote:They all cheat, but nobody can name a cyclist other than Armstrong.

  I know Landis and Gary Fisher. That's about it.
• gut

  BORIStheCrusher;1254719 wrote:They all cheat, but nobody can name a cyclist other than Armstrong.

  MOSTLY true, in the US. I'll admit Lance made me a fan of cycling, and the TdF in particular.
• mella

  The is no proof. He or at least his name has done a lot of good for cancer research and raising money for cancer research.
• cruiser_96

  

  Over 7 years, a few hundred tests via blood, urine, swab, stool, etc, in season, out of season, pre comp, post comp, and not ONCE did he fail. Not for HGH, various PEDs, or even masking agents!!!
  
  If I'm Lance, and my competitive career is over, I'd Do the same thing. "I'm not spending another dime of mine to go over something that's been settled for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!! now." in the immortal words of many OC posters, I'd tell'm "GFY!"
• hasbeen

  

  cruiser_96;1254824 wrote:Over 7 years, a few hundred tests via blood, urine, swab, stool, etc, in season, out of season, pre comp, post comp, and not ONCE did he fail. Not for HGH, various PEDs, or even masking agents!!!
  
  If I'm Lance, and my competitive career is over, I'd Do the same thing. "I'm not spending another dime of mine to go over something that's been settled for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!! now." in the immortal words of many OC posters, I'd tell'm "GFY!"

  This x a million
• sportchampps

  The evidence isn't really any more then it's ever been before. All they have are former teammates saying they saw him dope. They have had the same evidence for years just more teammates now. The case isn't any stronger really then before. There is no test that shows he cheated no receipts no needles no physical evidence. The USADA can't even really strip his titles like they said so that's up for debate as well.
  
  I think he cheated but the USADA case isn't why and doesn't say anything different then before except they are over stepping their boundaries and will be taken to international court because of it. This is all politics in an election year.
• gut

  Actually, it's pretty widely beleived he failed a test in 1999, I think, that was covered up (and I believe this was referenced by the USADA investigation). There was another test of frozen 2001 samples that he failed, and he got that sealed on a technicality. If you're into the science of the sport, some of the benchmarks just aren't achievable clean. And then there's the fact of how he dominated a doped-up field.
  
  The drugs are always ahead of the tests. There's a long, long list of pro athletes who never tested positive but were later found to have cheated (BALCO being one of the more publicized cases). He had a big budget and a machine - numerous former teammates got busted for doping when they were no longer backed by such deep pockets.
  
  You don't hear about it in the American press, but there's a pretty long and documented history of witness intimidation and other aggressive tactics. To me that's what makes Armstrong such a fraud. There's never been an athlete that dirty, that in denial, and that aggressive in keeping the lie. Being clean was a big part of his story, and while you can't argue the good done by his foundation I think he used it to promote his own self-interests, as well.
  
  There's a line in his first book that really disgusts me. Something about how, after going thru cancer and chemo treatment that he couldn't imagine ever putting anything foreign into his body. Winning clean was a critical piece of his "beating all odds" story that made him one of the most famous and recognizeable athletes ever. That's what makes him such a fraud.
  
  And by all accounts, he's a class A prick personally. Not uncommon for many elite athletes, but this is a guy held in unusually low regard by his competition. Doesn't change the fact that he was awesome to watch, I just struggle to call him an inspiration.
• friendfromlowry

  I don't know much about the sport and who is responsible for what, but it's crazy that the USADA would continue to go out of their way to bust him. As someone eluded on the pro sports thread, how many of the recent winners have actually NOT been stripepd for doping? It can't be good for the sport...
  
  I don't blame him for giving up the fight. He's not even a professional cycler anymore. He's got bigger things on his agenda these days.
• reclegend22

  

  He was really good at riding a bicycle. So are 12-year-olds with paper routes. Count me as not caring.
• OSH

  

  Where's the "Don't care" option?
  
  It doesn't affect me, nor will it ever. I could care less what he did or didn't do.
• Sonofanump

  BORIStheCrusher;1254719 wrote:They all cheat, but nobody can name a cyclist other than Armstrong.

  I just know Greg Lemond, Floyd Landis, Alberto Contado, Miguel Indurain and Andy Schlek. That is it, the sport does not really exist.
• ricola

  

  gut;1254856 wrote:Actually, it's pretty widely beleived he failed a test in 1999, I think, that was covered up (and I believe this was referenced by the USADA investigation). There was another test of frozen 2001 samples that he failed, and he got that sealed on a technicality. If you're into the science of the sport, some of the benchmarks just aren't achievable clean. And then there's the fact of how he dominated a doped-up field.
  
  The drugs are always ahead of the tests. There's a long, long list of pro athletes who never tested positive but were later found to have cheated (BALCO being one of the more publicized cases). He had a big budget and a machine - numerous former teammates got busted for doping when they were no longer backed by such deep pockets.
  
  You don't hear about it in the American press, but there's a pretty long and documented history of witness intimidation and other aggressive tactics. To me that's what makes Armstrong such a fraud. There's never been an athlete that dirty, that in denial, and that aggressive in keeping the lie. Being clean was a big part of his story, and while you can't argue the good done by his foundation I think he used it to promote his own self-interests, as well.
  
  There's a line in his first book that really disgusts me. Something about how, after going thru cancer and chemo treatment that he couldn't imagine ever putting anything foreign into his body. Winning clean was a critical piece of his "beating all odds" story that made him one of the most famous and recognizeable athletes ever. That's what makes him such a fraud.
  
  And by all accounts, he's a class A prick personally. Not uncommon for many elite athletes, but this is a guy held in unusually low regard by his competition. Doesn't change the fact that he was awesome to watch, I just struggle to call him an inspiration.

  this. what a fraud.
• Cher

  He's just tired of dealing with accusations, and I don't blame him.
  
  No proof, no doping.
• Automatik

  

  Cher;1254970 wrote:He's just tired of dealing with accusations, and I don't blame him.
  
  No proof, no doping.

  How do you know they don't have proof?
  
  He doesn't want to fight it because he knows he's fucked.
• said_aouita

  

  He made millions. He's done competing. He keeps practically all of the money.
  
  
  Lance wins.
• Paul_1

  

  Sonofanump;1254891 wrote: the sport does not really exist.

  Thats because riding a bicycle isn't a sport.....
• Heretic

  

  Personally don't care.
  
  Didn't care about cycling before Lance Armstrong. Didn't care about cycling while he was winning whatever. Don't care about it now.
• Automatik

  

  said_aouita;1254984 wrote:
  
  Lance wins.

  Except for the fact that he's a fraud.
• GOONx19

  

  
• Trueblue23

  

  Everyone is saying there is no proof..
  
  I can pretty much assume had Armstrong not backed down, we would have gotten a lot of proof. He bailed to save face.