Can Turner win POY?
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thedynasty1998
I think Greg Monroe might end up in the discussion. He has some high profile games remaining, plays for a top 10 team, and is averaging 15, 10 and 3.
Doubt he does, but if he goes off for 30 today against Villanova it could be the kind of game that gets more people talking about him.
But I agree with above, that those three are probably the front runners. -
big_hits24I would say Turner is one of the most deserving players in the country to win it...that injury set him back a little. And a lot of folks are in love with John Wall and his style of play. He is a great player, not taking anything away from him, but there are better players out there. I think that if Wall gets UK to the Final Four and continues playing well, he will get the votes.
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Azubuike24
The hype on Wall was deserved early. However, since conference play, he has been inconsistent and prone to turnovers. His numbers haven't dropped much, if at all, but he certainly isn't ahead of the pack like he was in the pre-conference season.
It's a wide open race at this point. -
thedynasty1998
When is voting done for POY? How much emphasis is put on postseason play?
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Writerbuckeye
The 20-10-5 averages (points, rebounds, assists) for one player is VERY rare.Azubuike24 wrote: I agree with Turner being a candidate, but to say his stats are off-the-charts good isn't true.
Evan Turner
18.9 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 5.7 APG
Unknown Player
21.6 PPG, 11.2 PPG, 2.8 BPG
The unknown player is very good, will be playing in the NCAA Tournament and might get some All-American votes, but has no shot at NPOY and most likely won't be on any All-American teams.
Lets also remember Turner is the #1 offensive option on his team, is the point-guard and is the 2nd biggest starter on the floor. This helps him in all three of his highly productive categories. He also plays on a very thin team with only 6 players who are taking more than 2 shots per game.
These are all things in his FAVOR to win NPOY, but it doesn't mean he deserves it over others because of his stats. Clearly, his opportunity to produce more has helped with these numbers.
Stephen Curry scored 29 PPG, dished out 6 APG and grabbed 5 RPG last season. He certainly should have been in the discussion, but he didn't win NPOY.
Your example isn't there because he's not close to the 5 assists to go with his other numbers.
Don't take my word for it. There was a terrific column by an SI.com writer not that long ago in which he noted how rare what Turner may accomplish really is. We're talking only a few times in nearly 40 years rare.
Whether or not Turner is the first option or not is irrelevant, as is his size. There are plenty of players out there who are the primary weapon for their teams, and who have good size but aren't producing at this level.
What IS relevant is how many players are currently averaging beyond those thresholds in all three categories.
The answer right now is: only one. -
Azubuike24
Turner is in the race. I'd like to know how many players in that 40-year time span put up Stephen Curry's numbers. I doubt it was that common. Curry didn't win NPOY.
Evan Turner is having an amazing year, and believe me, I appreciate those stats. With that said, it doesn't mean he should be a lock for the award. -
Writerbuckeye
Here's the last section of the article I mentioned:Azubuike24 wrote: Turner is in the race. I'd like to know how many players in that 40-year time span put up Stephen Curry's numbers. I doubt it was that common. Curry didn't win NPOY.
Evan Turner is having an amazing year, and believe me, I appreciate those stats. With that said, it doesn't mean he should be a lock for the award.
Bottom line: If he keeps this up, POY should be his, and the better debate might be where Turner's season would place in the modern history of college basketball.
Right now, Turner is averaging 18.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 5.4 assists per game. However, if you exclude the seven-minute outing against Eastern Michigan (when he was injured) and his 20-minute return against Indiana, those averages jump to 20.7, 11.0 and 5.8. If Turner can maintain those standards (technically, he'd need about a 0.5 ppg bump in scoring), he will complete one of the most statistically improbable seasons in modern basketball history.
How rare is a 20/10/5 year in college hoops? According to Ohio State's sports information department, which consulted with Stats Inc., no Division I player has completed one since at least 1996. Stats Inc.'s best guess as to the last player to do it is Larry Bird at Indiana State in 1978-79, and that wasn't even in a major conference. Searching independently, the last player who did it in a top-tier league may have been Bill Walton at UCLA in 1972-73.
Think about what that means. Grant Hill (17.4/6.9/5.2) never got there. Neither did Dwayne Wade (21.5/6.3/4.4). Tim Duncan came moderately close (20.8/14.7/3.2), but still didn't do it. Even less-remembered one-man wrecking crews like N.C. State's Tom Gugliotta (22.5/9.8/3.1) couldn't get there.
The best proxies? The two most freakishly multitalented stars of the modern era: Magic Johnson (17.0/7.9/7.4 and 17.1/7.3/8.4 in his two seasons) and Jason Kidd (16.7/6.9/9.1 his sophomore season). Both had outrageously impactful seasons, but each still missed on two of these three specific metrics.
More recently, there have been only 19 20/10 guys in Division I in the last five seasons combined, and none averaged more than 2.7 assists per game. Yes, it takes a perfect confluence of events -- a multidimensional star playing with a solid supporting cast that lacks a true second go-to guy -- but the sheer rarity of the feat hints at both Turner's uniqueness and his quality.
If Kentucky ends the season at No. 1, Wall rightly will get a long look for Player of the Year. He's lived up to all expectations and team success, especially for a point guard, should be strongly considered. That said, if Turner does make it to 20/10/5 and Ohio State continues to thrive, the POY debate should be settled. If you deliver arguably the most dynamic season of the last 30 years, you have to be considered the best player in the land."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/andy_glockner/01/26/evan.turner.poy/index.html -
I drain 3'sWriterbuckeye wrote:
The 20-10-5 averages (points, rebounds, assists) for one player is VERY rare.Azubuike24 wrote: I agree with Turner being a candidate, but to say his stats are off-the-charts good isn't true.
Evan Turner
18.9 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 5.7 APG
Unknown Player
21.6 PPG, 11.2 PPG, 2.8 BPG
The unknown player is very good, will be playing in the NCAA Tournament and might get some All-American votes, but has no shot at NPOY and most likely won't be on any All-American teams.
Lets also remember Turner is the #1 offensive option on his team, is the point-guard and is the 2nd biggest starter on the floor. This helps him in all three of his highly productive categories. He also plays on a very thin team with only 6 players who are taking more than 2 shots per game.
These are all things in his FAVOR to win NPOY, but it doesn't mean he deserves it over others because of his stats. Clearly, his opportunity to produce more has helped with these numbers.
Stephen Curry scored 29 PPG, dished out 6 APG and grabbed 5 RPG last season. He certainly should have been in the discussion, but he didn't win NPOY.
Your example isn't there because he's not close to the 5 assists to go with his other numbers.
Don't take my word for it. There was a terrific column by an SI.com writer not that long ago in which he noted how rare what Turner may accomplish really is. We're talking only a few times in nearly 40 years rare.
Whether or not Turner is the first option or not is irrelevant, as is his size. There are plenty of players out there who are the primary weapon for their teams, and who have good size but aren't producing at this level.
What IS relevant is how many players are currently averaging beyond those thresholds in all three categories.
The answer right now is: only one.
Considering this "unknown player" is a center, of course he's not going to match Turner's assist numbers. Much like how Turner doesn't match this player's block per game numbers.
You can't just look at stats and say who's more deserving. IMO, this player is just as deserving as POY as anyone, considering he's lead his team to a 20-3 record while losing a great player in the offseason. The problem is, this player doesn't play in one of the high profile conferences that all the other mentioned names do, and therefor very few people get to watch and actually know who this guy is. -
Writerbuckeye
Not playing in a major conference should be a disqualifying factor, in my view. You are obviously not playing against the nation's more elite players on a regular basis.
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Azubuike24
That's usually the case in the voting. However, how do you discriminate at times? For instance, the Pac-10 this year isn't as good as even the WCC, and it's not even close to the A-10. Look at Jameer Nelson when he won the awards at St. Joe's.
It's tougher to vote for a guy in a small conference, but it shouldn't disqualify him. There is a gray area with leagues every year in-terms of how strong they are. -
centralbucksfanTurner with just a "ho hum" game today.....32pts, 7rbs, 5asst., and at least 3/4 steals. Sorry, isn't a better player in the country, nite in and nite out, then Turner. And NO, I honestly don't think its close.
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Scarlet_Fever
I agree with this. There are other players that are great. It's just Turner means so much to his team. He never gets a rest and still plays strong down the stretch.centralbucksfan wrote: Turner with just a "ho hum" game today.....32pts, 7rbs, 5asst., and at least 3/4 steals. Sorry, isn't a better player in the country, nite in and nite out, then Turner. And NO, I honestly don't think its close. -
karen lotz
I know it means very little in regards to who will actually win POY, but espn has a sportsnation poll on POY. Turner isn't listed as one of the options, unless you count "other." Wall is winning every state except 3: Reynolds in PA, Other in Kansas (Sherron Collins), and Other in Ohio (Turner). I find it hard to believe he isn't getting more credit on the national level with guys like Bilas talking him up. -
Azubuike24
The way OSU is playing, I'd definitely say Turner might be the front-runner. John Wall has not dominated games lately, even when his numbers are still there.
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centralbucksfan
IMO, Cousins is having as good if not better season then Wall. I believe he just recorded his 7th double double? Wall just got his first. Cousins has really stepped it up in conference play...which is obviously better competition then most OOC games when Wall had his better games.Azubuike24 wrote: The way OSU is playing, I'd definitely say Turner might be the front-runner. John Wall has not dominated games lately, even when his numbers are still there.