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Tubby Smith reportedly out at Minnesota, Rich Pitino to replace

  • reclegend22
    ^What does that even mean?
  • Azubuike24
    Trevor Mbakwe also made some comments about Tubby's approach to games, and some commucation problems with players and recruits. Talked about how it really rubbed some players the wrong way. The above retweet from Nolen is just harsh...calling him the devil. Still, I mean does any of this surprise people? Tubby is a dinosaur. The same stuff happened at UK, but instead of being fired, he was basically ripped to shreds by the fans and forced to leave.

    Of course, it was because he was "black" and the fanbase is racist :)
  • said_aouita
    wkfan;1414136 wrote:Does Minnesota really expect to get a better coach than Tubby Smith?
    .

    They mistakenly believe they are a top-tier B10 team.
    They fired Glen Mason and their football team has been on a downward spiral ever since. No doubt their bball team will go down hill too.

    Did J Robinson get a raise?
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    Azubuike24;1414550 wrote:Trevor Mbakwe also made some comments about Tubby's approach to games, and some commucation problems with players and recruits. Talked about how it really rubbed some players the wrong way. The above retweet from Nolen is just harsh...calling him the devil. Still, I mean does any of this surprise people? Tubby is a dinosaur. The same stuff happened at UK, but instead of being fired, he was basically ripped to shreds by the fans and forced to leave.

    Of course, it was because he was "black" and the fanbase is racist :)
    Agree with this. Pretty much every UK fan thought it was Tubby's time to go when he did, if not sooner. He had discipline problems after discipline problems, top recruits that never panned out (see Joe Crawford, Marvin Stone, Randolph Morris) and generally seemed aloof in running a blue-chip program. He'll always be remembered as a guy that won a National Championship in his first year - and that's a credit to him. But the years of turmoil afterwards are evidenced by the disappointing seasons and transfers. Maybe he just isn't that great of a coach.
  • gorocks99
    said_aouita;1414592 wrote:They fired Glen Mason and their football team has been on a downward spiral ever since.
    Glen Mason was a dolt. Hiring Brewster was the problem, not firing Mason (just as hiring coach x would be the problem, not firing Tubby). And Kill has the team back to a 6-7 record - the same as Mason's last year.
  • reclegend22
    I disagree strongly that Tubby can't coach.

    I've been a big UNLV fan this season -- the Rebels might be comprised of the most talented cast of players in the country, but they fell flat on their face in the first round, for the second straight year. Anthony Bennett was the best player in his class coming in. They have four McDonad's All-Americans on the roster in all. That failure starts with their head coach, Dave Rice. He cannot coach and has proven it time and time again. You need coaching to win. Rice tried the roll-the-ball-on-the-court approach this year and it was a colossal failure.

    Kentucky's '98 squad was not an all-star team. It had one player drafted into the NBA that year -- Nazr Mohammed. It was a team made up of really good college players, not future NBA stars. Sure, UK was the national runner-up the year prior, but off that team the Wildcats lost Derek Anderson and Ron Mercer. Tubby did a masterful job with the team he had, in my view. Winning a title is hard as hell.
  • gorocks99
    reclegend22;1414643 wrote:I disagree strongly that Tubby can't coach.
    My experience over the past 6 years is that Tubby can coach (you don't get to where he is and not have a strong knowledge of the game), and I have no doubts that he is one of the "good guys," but I saw too many failures on routine inbounds plays, or stagnant offensive trips where the ball is dribbled around the perimeter for 30 seconds and a desperation 3 is heaved.

    I also think that his fire isn't there, as Azubuike has alluded to. Almost seemed "checked out" at times, saying the reason the team didn't live up to potential this year was because there wasn't any leadership. To an extent it's true, but you're the coach getting paid $2.5m a year to figure it out.
  • sleeper
    I don't think Tubby is a good coach. Minnesota was good enough to make a run this year and failed.
  • reclegend22
    gorocks99;1414646 wrote:My experience over the past 6 years is that Tubby can coach (you don't get to where he is and not have a strong knowledge of the game), and I have no doubts that he is one of the "good guys," but I saw too many failures on routine inbounds plays, or stagnant offensive trips where the ball is dribbled around the perimeter for 30 seconds and a desperation 3 is heaved.

    I also think that his fire isn't there, as Azubuike has alluded to. Almost seemed "checked out" at times, saying the reason the team didn't live up to potential this year was because there wasn't any leadership. To an extent it's true, but you're the coach getting paid $2.5m a year to figure it out.
    From what I have seen of him in recent seasons, as an outside observer, I actually agree with all of this. But somebody above presented the question of whether or not Tubby could actually coach, and that is not accurate based on his overall track record. The more likely answer is that he has, as you say, just lost his desire to coach at the big time level and all that goes into it.
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    reclegend22;1414643 wrote:I disagree strongly that Tubby can't coach.

    I've been a big UNLV fan this season -- the Rebels might be comprised of the most talented cast of players in the country, but they fell flat on their face in the first round, for the second straight year. Anthony Bennett was the best player in his class coming in. They have four McDonad's All-Americans on the roster in all. That failure starts with their head coach, Dave Rice. He cannot coach and has proven it time and time again. You need coaching to win. Rice tried the roll-the-ball-on-the-court approach this year and it was a colossal failure.

    Kentucky's '98 squad was not an all-star team. It had one player drafted into the NBA that year -- Nazr Mohammed. It was a team made up of really good college players, not future NBA stars. Sure, UK was the national runner-up the year prior, but off that team the Wildcats lost Derek Anderson and Ron Mercer. Tubby did a masterful job with the team he had, in my view. Winning a title is hard as hell.
    Can you name any UK player during Tubby's time other than Bogans, Prince, Hayes or Azuibuike - in around 10 years? UK was not an elite program during his tenure, and they underachieved in the tournament. Zero final 4 appearances after 1998.
  • gorocks99
    Manhattan Buckeye;1414668 wrote:Can you name any UK player during Tubby's time other than Bogans, Prince, Hayes or Azuibuike - in around 10 years? UK was not an elite program during his tenure, and they underachieved in the tournament. Zero final 4 appearances after 1998.
    Rondo :)
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    ^^^

    And how many people know he played at Kentucky? The guy was completely underutilized and take a look at the rest of Tubby's last 2 seasons in Lexington - obviously the guy checked out when it came to giving a darn.
  • reclegend22
    Manhattan Buckeye;1414668 wrote:Can you name any UK player during Tubby's time other than Bogans, Prince, Hayes or Azuibuike - in around 10 years? UK was not an elite program during his tenure, and they underachieved in the tournament. Zero final 4 appearances after 1998.
    Fitch, Hayes and Sparks weren't bad. Not sure what naming players has to do with Tubby's ability to coach the game of basketball. That speaks to recruiting, which as some of us have pointed out, might have declined over the years due to Tubby seemingly becoming disenchanted with big-time college basketball and the pressure/time that encompasses it. That doesn't, however, mean that he cannot coach the game. At this stage of his career, he'd probably do very well at a mid-major where he can focus on just the game.
  • reclegend22
    So you mentioned Hayes. Just caught that. I stand behind everything else.
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    Sparks was a transfer. I don't see how anyone that remotely followed college basketball, particularly Kentucky, could say that Tubby deserved his blue-chip job after losing to UAB in the second round of the '04 tourney. It was as if he completely lost interest in coaching. He was not a UK level of coach at that time, assuming he was before.
  • reclegend22
    Manhattan Buckeye;1414704 wrote:Sparks was a transfer. I don't see how anyone that remotely followed college basketball, particularly Kentucky, could say that Tubby deserved his blue-chip job after losing to UAB in the second round of the '04 tourney. It was as if he completely lost interest in coaching. He was not a UK level of coach at that time, assuming he was before.
    Who here says that he deserved his blue-chip job?

    All I've said is that I believe Tubby Smith is a good coach. He just wasn't cut out for the magnitude of the job at Kentucky or the Big Ten, for that matter. He's old-fashioned and doesn't enjoy all of the behind-the-scenes stuff that goes into winning at that level -- recruiting, managing stars, dealing with media, serving as a CEO of a program, etc. He just wants to coach the game, which I believe he can do. But he got lost in the shuffle of everything else that happens away from the court over the past decade and the results just haven't been there. That's my take.
  • Azubuike24
    reclegend22;1414708 wrote:Who here says that he deserved his blue-chip job?

    All I've said is that I believe Tubby Smith is a good coach. He just wasn't cut out for the magnitude of the job at Kentucky or the Big Ten, for that matter. He's old-fashioned and doesn't enjoy all of the behind-the-scenes stuff that goes into winning at that level -- recruiting, managing stars, dealing with media, serving as a CEO of a program, etc. He just wants to coach the game, which I believe he can do. But he got lost in the shuffle of everything else that happens away from the court over the past decade and the results just haven't been there. That's my take.
    Which lends credence to exactly why he should be fired. If you're a Big Ten (or any major conference school), hiring a guy in his career-state is accepting mediocrity. I'd rather hire someone who might crash and burn, but has a 20% chance of hitting a home run, rather than someone who's potential is a single or a double.
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    ^^^

    Agree with Azubuike. Tubby might have been a nice guy, but he appeared completely disinterested in coaching in his last few years at UK - not sure if that transferred to his tenure at Minnesota as I haven't really followed that program closely. Reading his results he seemed to do ok there - but not worth $2M a year. If a university is going to put up that type of cash, it should expect more.
  • reclegend22
    Manhattan Buckeye;1414896 wrote:^^^

    Agree with Azubuike. Tubby might have been a nice guy, but he appeared completely disinterested in coaching in his last few years at UK - not sure if that transferred to his tenure at Minnesota as I haven't really followed that program closely. Reading his results he seemed to do ok there - but not worth $2M a year. If a university is going to put up that type of cash, it should expect more.
    So we agree that Tubby can coach. That was my only point.

    Where he fell short was not wanting to deal with all of the extracurricular stuff that is required of a coach to succeed at the highest of levels. As I said, Tubby would probably be a perfect fit at a school like the College of Charleston, where former Georgia Tech coach Bobby Cremins ended his career.
  • reclegend22
    So we agree that Tubby can coach. That was my only point.

    Where he fell short was not wanting to deal with all of the extracurricular stuff that is required of a coach to succeed at the highest of levels. As I said, Tubby would probably be a perfect fit at a school like the College of Charleston, where former Georgia Tech coach Bobby Cremins ended his career.
  • ou1980
    I bet Minn hires VCU's guy...Minn AD hired him when he was AD at VCU
  • Mulva
    Katz says no Flip Saunders. I think Minnesota should breath a sigh of relief about that one.

    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9115329/flip-saunders-turns-minnesota-golden-gophers-job-source-says
  • reclegend22
    Maybe Minnesota should look at Gregg Marshall. He's going to be a hot commodity this off-season, and I don't think there is any way that he stays at Wichita State if offered by a major school. He's not on the same level as Brad Stevens, so he can't hold out for an elite basketball school, but I think he'll definitely get looks from the Big Ten, Pac-12, ACC, SEC and the like, if any positions become available.

    Perhaps UCLA shouldn't have jumped the gun..
  • Azubuike24
    reclegend22;1417302 wrote:Maybe Minnesota should look at Gregg Marshall. He's going to be a hot commodity this off-season, and I don't think there is any way that he stays at Wichita State if offered by a major school. He's not on the same level as Brad Stevens, so he can't hold out for an elite basketball school, but I think he'll definitely get looks from the Big Ten, Pac-12, ACC, SEC and the like, if any positions become available.

    Perhaps UCLA shouldn't have jumped the gun..
    Wichita State returns 7 of their top 10 scorers. They also bring in a decent transfer and Freshman PG. They might not make the Final Four again, but they certainly will have a high quality team.

    To think he would do anything but laugh at MINNESOTA, is insane.

    I could see him ending up at Missouri after next year when Frank Haith's BS and terrible underachieving catches up to him. It would be a natural move.
  • Laley23
    I think Minny goes after Marshall, but I think he hold out. He was a great coach at Winthrop and now at WSU. I dont think Minny is a good move, and while he wont get an elite school, Minny is a downgrade, imo.