Rules Reaction

• NilesPacMan

  Story: Duke Player's Helmet Ripped Off
  
  Basically, Duke player has clear path to the end zone, and his helmet his ripped off by a beaten Wake Forest player. Play is called back and penalty assessed.
  
  Sometimes, I wonder whether the NCAA Rules Committee has any common sense when they make new rules like this. They make them with the best intentions, but they often fail to consider the changes in behavior when dealing with rules changes. They fail to see the new strategies (and how they can actually make the play more dangerous) when they make new rules. Of course, if you're going to make a rule that states the player with a helmet off is now out of the play and out for the next one, people are going to try to rip helmets off with more frequently.
  
  Also, regarding kickoffs out to the 25 to encourage more touchbacks by receiving teams, in the effort to eliminate kickoffs... What if the kicking teams (who have strong faith in their special team units) try to not put the ball in the end-zone and actually create more kickoff returns?
• sleeper

  

  Wake Forest player should have been ejected.
• Trueblue23

  

  sleeper;1283802 wrote:Wake Forest player should have been ejected.

  Honestly, you're right. What a bitch move. That's just like when a guy is burnt and intentionally gets called for pass interference. Pussies.
• gerb131

  

  Ball or the man never both behind you.
• Sonofanump

  NilesPacMan;1283798 wrote:Basically, Duke player has clear path to the end zone, and his helmet his ripped off by a beaten Wake Forest player. Play is called back and penalty assessed.
  
  Sometimes, I wonder whether the NCAA Rules Committee has any common sense when they make new rules like this. They make them with the best intentions, but they often fail to consider the changes in behavior when dealing with rules changes. They fail to see the new strategies (and how they can actually make the play more dangerous) when they make new rules. Of course, if you're going to make a rule that states the player with a helmet off is now out of the play and out for the next one, people are going to try to rip helmets off with more frequently.

  Who writes these stupid articles, have they every watched let alone played the game? Clear path except for #45 of Wake Forest who would have made the tackle 8 yards down field, but stopped since the runner did not have a helmet. 15 is greater than 8. Also, he does not have to sit out a play since the removal involved a flag. Derp. Trying to remove helmets off with more frequency. It has always been a rule that a runner can not advance without a helmet.
• Sonofanump

  NilesPacMan;1283798 wrote:Also, regarding kickoffs out to the 25 to encourage more touchbacks by receiving teams, in the effort to eliminate kickoffs... What if the kicking teams (who have strong faith in their special team units) try to not put the ball in the end-zone and actually create more kickoff returns?

  What? Kick it short so they get a better return? Who writes this stuff?
• Fly4Fun

  

  Some kind of penalty for the opposing player if you rip someone's helmet off. If it's knocked off because of a collision... nothing. But if a player rips the helmet off make them sit out the next snap as well (in addition to the 15 yards for the personal foul -face mask).
• Devils Advocate

  

  The refs blew the call on this play. If you watch the replay, there was an offensive holding directly after the helmet being pulled off before the play was blown dead. The penalties should have been off setting.
• Sonofanump

  Devils Advocate;1284249 wrote:The refs blew the call on this play. If you watch the replay, there was an offensive holding directly after the helmet being pulled off before the play was blown dead. The penalties should have been off setting.

  Lulz.
• WebFire

  IMO, if a helmet comes off because a defensive player "forces" it off (whether intentional, or unintentional), the offensive player should NOT have to sit out. It should only be if the helmet comes off itself.
• WebFire

  Also, kids are wearing their helmets waaaaaay to loose these days. When I played, you never saw helmets come off, at any level (well, it was rare). There was no way my helmet was coming off my head, and if it did, it would have hurt like hell.
• Tiger2003

  

  I'm just wondering. If the Duke player had a clear path for a TD, how was his helmet ripped off?
• bigkahuna

  It's been stated a few times that this rule (while intentions are good) is causing more helmets to come off.
  
  I think the number of helmets coming off has greatly increased this season.
  
  I agree with webbie that is was quite rare for a helmet to come off 5-10 years ago. Now, you see it at least once a quarter.
• Sonofanump

  bigkahuna;1284365 wrote:I think the number of helmets coming off has greatly increased this season.
  
  I agree with webbie that is was quite rare for a helmet to come off 5-10 years ago. Now, you see it at least once a quarter.

  The NCAA is requiring us to track this. I am guess we (games I have worked) are averaging 3-4 helmets off a game.
• jmog

  Sonofanump;1283836 wrote:What? Kick it short so they get a better return? Who writes this stuff?

  Actually I've seen it, kick it up higher (more hang time, longer time for gunners to get downfield) and try to have the ball land/be caught at the goal line.
  
  The OPs first reaction to the helmet was definitely dumb and not well thought out, but I have personally seen the kickoffs getting pooched more in the air instead of booted deep.
  
  Heck, I've even seen it at the NFL level, not as much since its still out to the 20. The other thing in the NFL is we see more and more guys coming from 5+ yards deep in the end zone out. This is probably just because most returners only return, and want to be able to do SOMETHING that day besides catch touchbacks and fair catch punts.
• jmog

  As sonofanump has said already.
  
  In the NFL and NCAA, if the helmet comes off due to a penalty by the other player, the player whose helmet came off does NOT have to sit out a play. If it comes from a legal hit then they do have to sit out a play.
  
  Also, as it has already been said, it was not a clear shot to the end zone on this particular play.
• WebFire

  jmog;1284401 wrote:As sonofanump has said already.
  
  In the NFL and NCAA, if the helmet comes off due to a penalty by the other player, the player whose helmet came off does NOT have to sit out a play. If it comes from a legal hit then they do have to sit out a play.
  
  Also, as it has already been said, it was not a clear shot to the end zone on this particular play.

  Thanks for the clarification.
• se-alum

  

  jmog;1284396 wrote:Actually I've seen it, kick it up higher (more hang time, longer time for gunners to get downfield) and try to have the ball land/be caught at the goal line.
  
  The OPs first reaction to the helmet was definitely dumb and not well thought out, but I have personally seen the kickoffs getting pooched more in the air instead of booted deep.
  
  Heck, I've even seen it at the NFL level, not as much since its still out to the 20. The other thing in the NFL is we see more and more guys coming from 5+ yards deep in the end zone out. This is probably just because most returners only return, and want to be able to do SOMETHING that day besides catch touchbacks and fair catch punts.

  Yea, Basil has actually been trying to kick the ball to the goal line, instead of into the endzone for a Touchback. This was talked about after the first game.
• bigkahuna

  Sonofanump;1284375 wrote:The NCAA is requiring us to track this. I am guess we (games I have worked) are averaging 3-4 helmets off a game.

  Does it not at least seem more prevalent now? It might be because the announcers point it out due to the rule, but it seems like more helmets come off than in the last 1-3 years.
• sleeper

  

  WebFire;1284299 wrote:IMO, if a helmet comes off because a defensive player "forces" it off (whether intentional, or unintentional), the offensive player should NOT have to sit out. It should only be if the helmet comes off itself.

  That is the rule.
• WebFire

  sleeper;1284457 wrote:That is the rule.

  Yes, that was cleared up. Thanks.
• Sonofanump

  bigkahuna;1284435 wrote:Does it not at least seem more prevalent now? It might be because the announcers point it out due to the rule, but it seems like more helmets come off than in the last 1-3 years.

  I'd say that the helmets coming off is reduced from last year. Last year was bad, I think on average 5-6 helmets a game, henceforth the new rule. The numbers had been builing over the last few years. Hope the rule gets these kids to put more air in them and strap them down tighter.
• sherm03

  

  Trueblue23;1283811 wrote:Honestly, you're right. What a bitch move. That's just like when a guy is burnt and intentionally gets called for pass interference. Pussies.

  Disagree with your last statement 100%. If you're burnt, why wouldn't you trip up the player and draw the PI call? It's no different than a guy in basketball going up for a layup and someone grabbing their arm and making them earn the points at the stripe.
  
  If I'm a coach...I'm telling every CB and safety that if they are beat, they better interfere with the WR, just make sure he doesn't catch it. I'd rather get 15 on the penalty than the other team get 6 points on the board.
  
  Pussies? I don't think so. That's just playing smart.
• WebFire

  I agree with sherm on that. It's smart football.
• bigkahuna

  Sonofanump;1284473 wrote:I'd say that the helmets coming off is reduced from last year. Last year was bad, I think on average 5-6 helmets a game, henceforth the new rule. The numbers had been builing over the last few years. Hope the rule gets these kids to put more air in them and strap them down tighter.

  I hope so. How often do you see a kid with a red mark on his forehead from the helmet anymore? Almost every kid used to get that. I remember I had to pull the ears out to get mine off.