(1) Duke vs. Butler in the Meadowlands -- A National Championship Rematch

• reclegend22

  

  First off, this isn't a rematch. The player who came within a tenth-of-an-inch of taking down Duke last April in Indianapolis with a 48-foot prayer at the buzzer is no longer there. Gordon Hayward is playing ball in the NBA this winter. Jon Scheyer, Duke's soul during the Blue Devils' run to the national championship, is coaching high school basketball in suburban Illinois. Brian Zoubek, who intentionally missed that last Duke free-throw, which led to the moment of wonder that completely entranced the basketball universe as Hayward's shot floated through the drafty Lucas Oil air, was waived by the Nets over the summer and is still in search of a permanent basketball job. Lance Thomas, gone. And so is Willie Veasely, the Indiana native who provided the Bulldogs with such determined leadership.
  
  But it sounded good for the title of this thread.
  
  If you couldn't care less, you'll have to forgive me, I have taken a lot of speed. Surely I jest. But Monster energy drinks I am a bondservant to.
  
  The Game
  
  Butler has had a bit of a rough go to this point in the season, and have struggled against teams that would at least seem to be very much inferior to the Bulldogs. Butler's two losses this season have come to Louisville (not a bad loss by any means other than the fact that the Dawgs' were pummeled) and at home in Hinkle to Evansville (a bad, bad loss). Butler also is coming off of a two-point victory over Loyola of Illinois. This is certainly not what we're accustomed to seeing from Brad Stevens-coached teams at this point in the year. But maybe that's because he's only coached for three seasons.
  
  But let's not forget that Butler still has a former league player of the year in Matt Howard, a spectacular shooter and proven scorer in Shelvin Mack and the deft floor game of veteran point guard Ronald Nored. Nored is still a game time decision from the most recent reports I've heard after suffering some sort of injury earlier in the week, but I expect it will take a hell of a lot to keep Nored off the floor in this marquee matchup. This is Butler's national championship. They will not be spending spring break in Houston. This is, as Duke is to many, Butler's most awaited game of the year. Brad Stevens won't need to give his boys a dose of Rockne quintessence to amp them up for the top-ranked Devils.
  
  With that, I warn Duke to be ready. There is nothing more dangerous in sport than an inspirited underdog, especially one that came within a fraction of an inch of cutting down their game's most coveted prize. This could be a good one. Or Duke could win by 50.
  
  The game is on ESPN at 3:15, Saturday December 4.
• wildcats20

  

  This is going to be ugly.
• CinciX12

  

  Butler is terrible. This game will likely be considered a homicide scene when it is done with. For all your sakes do not watch the Butler and Xavier game Thursday as that just adds another terrible team to a terrible team. Your eyes will bleed.
• Prescott

  Butler isn't good and Nored hasn't played the past two games due to a concussion. If duke does not win by 20, they are underachieving.
• wildcats20

  

  regardless who they are playing.......Duke in New York City is always tough.

  Considering they are playing in Jersey.
• CinciX12

  

  Yeah, they are faiirly good in Jersey too. Personal experience.
• Leonardo

  

  Duke by 20+
• Laley23

  

  Duke by what they want. 20, 30, 40. 50 may be pushing it however. So maybe by what they want till 40.
• reclegend22

  

  Yeah, I agree that Duke is going to take Butler's heart and stomp it. But it's always good to at least give the opponent some credit for karma purposes.
  
  Not to get into any specifics on certain posters' personal experiences here, but Duke is lethally good in the Tri-State Area, specifically in MSG and at the Meadowlands complex.
  
  2005 in Jersey over #2 Texas by 31 (Redick goes for 41 and 9 threes)
  2008 in Jersey over #7 Xavier by 18 (up by over 30)
  2009 in MSG over #15 Gonzaga by 35 (up almost 40)
  
  Those are simply taking into account single neutral site contests. When taking into account all games -- preseason tourneys and match-ups with St. John's -- Duke is 7-0 in Manhattan and Jersey since 2008 and 15-1 since 2003. They don't call it Cameron North for nothing.
• CinciX12

  

  They have also never lost a game in that arena (meadowlands) if I remember right? NCAA Tourney and regular season. They were like 18-0 in games when X played them.
• Prescott

  When does duke play it's first true road game?
  
  Btw, Jacob Pullen continues to struggle. Last night he was 2/11 from the field and 1/6 from behind the arc.
  
  Two games that might be more interesting are Kentucky@UNC(12:30 ESPN2) and Illinois@Gonzaga(5:15 ESPN). The UK/UNC game is at The Dean Smith Center. Unfortunately, the Ill/ Gonzaga game is at Key Arena and not the McCarthey Athletic Center
• Laley23

  

  Prescott;587226 wrote:When does duke play it's first true road game?
  
  Btw, Jacob Pullen continues to struggle. Last night he was 2/11 from the field and 1/6 from behind the arc.

  
  He seems to be missing his running mate Denis Clemente.
• reclegend22

  

  CinciX12 wrote:They have also never lost a game in that arena (meadowlands) if I remember right? NCAA Tourney and regular season. They were like 18-0 in games when X played them.

  
  
  Duke and Coach K are 18-1 all-time at the Meadowlands, including 10-0 in the NCAA Tournament. The sole loss was to Arizona in 1989.
  

  When does duke play it's first true road game?

  Duke's first road game comes at the Greensboro Coliseum against the UNC Greensboro Spartans on Dec. 29. UNCG plays its home games in the Coliseum. The Devils also travel to Philly to take on Temple as well as to MSG to play the revitalized St. John's program under the headship of Steve Lavin.
  
  There is a reason Coach K schedules so many neutral site contests early in the year. It is to prepare his kids for the larger, neutral-site arenas they will play in during both the ACC and NCAA Tournaments in March. The 12 Final Fours and 4 NCAA trophies would make one at least perceive this method to be working, wouldn't you say?
  
  There is no reason at all to schedule true road games at, say, Butler, when the Blue Devils will never play in that type of small, packed and raucous environment come tournament time. Why risk so much -- a possible loss at a mid-major's home gymnasium -- for a game experience that would be much more valuable if played inside of an NBA-style venue common to March tourney sites? It only benefits the schools like Butler in the long run. I don't buy into needing that type of true road game to become tough; Coach K has proved this to be correct.
• Prescott

  Why risk so much

  What's the risk?? One loss. Big deal.I think many of the coaches, Thad Matta included, should be ashamed of their schedules.
  

  It is to prepare his kids for the larger, neutral-site arenas they will play in during both the ACC and NCAA Tournaments in March.

  Do you really think that playing Texas in the Meadowlands or Gonzaga in the Garden is a "NEUTRAL" environment?
  
  

  The 12 Final Fours and 4 NCAA trophies would make one at least perceive this method to be working, wouldn't you say?

  And I thought championships were a product of great recruiting and good coaching. Boy, do I feel dumb.
• reclegend22

  

  Do you really think that playing Texas in the Meadowlands or Gonzaga in the Garden is a "NEUTRAL" environment?

  Considering that Duke has played many of late stage March games in this particular venue, I would say it doesn't matter if it's a Duke slant in the stands. The Duke support will be there in the tournament, as well. It is the getting familiar with the dynamics of that kind of arena atmosphere that counts most.
  
  Also, the Duke game against Oregon played in the Portland Trail Blazers' Rose Garden rather than in Eugene is practice for, say, a Duke game against Kansas in St. Louis, or Ohio State in Lexington. That type of tournament preparation is genius and something more coaches should pattern after Coach K.
  

  And I thought championships were a product of great recruiting and good coaching. Boy, do I feel dumb.

  And you should, because that was not in any way whatsoever the actual meaning of my words. It's just one small example of why the importance placed on true road games is overrated and not significant when it comes to tournament play.
• reclegend22

  

  recelegend22 wrote:With that, I warn Duke to be ready. There is nothing more dangerous in sport than an inspirited underdog, especially one that came within a fraction of an inch of cutting down their game's most coveted prize. This could be a good one.

  I normally never post during games, but thought I would point out why I said this yesterday before this game began. Butler up one with seven to play in the first half.
  
  Also, I needed to post to reverse the karma that is currently happening to me for saying Duke would stomp Butler's heart.
• swamisez

  

  Game is being officiated very loosely, Butler is gonna hang on every screen and really ugly this one up. Works out perfectly for their style of play. Will be a nail biter. Duke is settling for threes early, open shots, but not the best ones.
• swamisez

  

  Nice win for the Dukies. I know right now it looks like a marginal victory, but when we look back and Butler is 24-6 it will look a bit more impressive.
  Tight contest throughout.
• reclegend22

  

  Yep, I'll take it. Big performance today from Andre Dawkins and Kyrie Irving. Both picked their spots beautifully, and I think Andre's steal at mid-court and coast to the hoop for a slam dunk three-point play late in the second half was a complete back breaker for Butler. That capped a 10-point Blue Devil run and literally took the breath out of the Dawgs. And Irving's 19-point second half was huge. Nolan scored 24, but he really needs to pick his shots better. There are times when it seems he thinks he's Isiah Thomas playing alongside four strobe lights; Nolan, they are people, and will accept your passes. But, come to think of it, how can you really argue with 24 big points in a game that was really hard to score early.
• Prescott

  That type of tournament preparation is genius and something more coaches should pattern after Coach K.

  You are certifiable.

  
  It's just one small example of why the importance placed on true road games is overrated and not significant when it comes to tournament play.

  Who said playing true road games had any impact on the tournament? The point is, playing a true road is great for the fans and presents a unique challenge for the players.. Kentucky lost on the road to UNC, does it really matter?? No, because they played a quality opponent on the road and performed admirably.
• reclegend22

  

  I presented my reasons for why preparing for the NCAA Tournament by playing tournament caliber teams -- both mid-major and major -- multiple times a year inside venues that are typically designated as March sites is more important to me -- and, historically, Coach K -- than unique player and fan experiences on an opposing team's home wood. Coach K has commented on this over the years and believes it gives his program an added advantage come post-season. I would tend to agree with him.
• swamisez

  

  I used to believe that true road games were necessary for Duke to prepare for the NCAA tournament. Now, given the crowds they face in neutral sites outside of New York area and the occasional game at Greensboro Coliseum, and the in-conference road games slate I am inclined to think that those are more than enough.
  
  Road games for the sake of road games are becoming a bit overrated. Coach K is beyond my questions, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt after winning a title with last year's group.
• Prescott

  I used to believe that true road games were necessary for Duke to prepare for the NCAA tournament.

  I have never believed this. Teams play true road games in their league. I happen to enjoy seeing quality programs step out of their comfort zone and compete. It's great for the fans and good for college basketball.
  
  I wish OSU would schedule home and homes with UC and X. I would love to see OSU go to Allen Fieldhouse or CIS,if they could get a home and home. It would be awesome!!
  

  I presented my reasons for why preparing for the NCAA Tournament by playing tournament caliber teams -- both mid-major and major -- multiple times a year inside venues that are typically designated as March sites is more important to me

  If you think playing a game regional type venue helps a team in the tournament, we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it means squat.
  
  BTW, I think duke plays at MSG or New Jersey just to placate the big dollar donors that live in the area.
• swamisez

  

  the fact Duke managed to win the national title, and did so by beating Baylor in Houston and a Butler team in Indianapolis illustrated to me that it doesn't really matter if your team is road tested or not. it matters how good your team is. the rest are all semantics. I was once a believer in what Izzo does, sure it is good for basketball. But given that Duke games at Cameron push ratings more than Duke games on the road or at neutral sites, in the case of the Devils it doesn't really matter if they play a true road game or neutral site game.
• Prescott

  it matters how good your team is.

  Exactly.Playing here or playing there doesn't really matter. I happen to think college basketball would be better if more coaches had enough chutzpah to schedule home and homes with other top-notch programs college basketball would be better.