Sippin' the Koolaid

• enigmaax

  lep - Interesting points and ultimately, yes, there's a lot of subjectivity to the debate. I'd just rather have some kind of facts to use and I'm never real big on disqualifying based on if's. However, I'll offer this as my own subjective way of looking at conference strength. If I am an independent team looking to join a conference, which one gives me the best and least opportunity to win the conference title?
  
  I would much rather have to try and beat OSU and then maybe worry about the occasional Wisconsin (or Michigan) of the past than know I'm going to run into at least three and more like 4-5 of the following: Florida/Georgia/Tennessee/Alabama/LSU/Auburn.......plus a title game.
  
  The other thing I look at, that we haven't talked about is who has bad losses. It is easy to look at Kentucky or South Carolina when they win their OOC games and say, "they didn't beat anybody". But if they also didn't lose to anyone, then you can't really knock them. But take last year as an example - those middle-of-the-pack Big Ten teams LOST to MAC teams. The Big XII had several of those types of losses as well. The Big East always gets a bad rap, but last year, they had less bad losses OOC than any other conference. Those aren't "even" match-ups, but it definitely counts for something when you can't even win the games you are supposed to (and makes it worse when a team like Purdue, who lost to Northern Illinois, beats your conference champion).
• lhslep134

  

  Enigmaax, I completely agree with you that a bad OOC loss should be worth just as much in the best conference debate as a good OOC win.
  
  
  
  Truthfully, I think that the entire strength of conference debate is reserved to spots 2-6 in the rankings. Until the SEC falls on its face, I just don't see another conference bringing in the same players or coaches, and the only other conference with coach pedigree anything like the SEC is the Big 10, and even then there's a considerable gap between the two conferences.
  
  
  You bring up completely valid points about "what conference would you rather join", and it's just another subjective measuring stick. It's frustrating that there's not a more objective measure, but that's the hand we're dealt and we have to just try and be as objective as possible when it comes to the subjective measuring sticks.
• -Society-

  

  Do fans of SEC teams wear clothes of their respective team, or do they all have SEC gear with every team on it?
• GOONx19

  

  I love Kentucky and hate the SEC. I root for the Big Ten in any game in which UK isn't involved. The SEC fanboys down at school are ridiculous.
• lhslep134

  

  -Society-;442554 wrote:Do fans of SEC teams wear clothes of their respective team, or do they all have SEC gear with every team on it?

  
  Depends.
  
  Anything SEC related is Florida for me, but I'm not sure I can say the same about Cats.
• enigmaax

  I never really noticed SEC fans being such staunch supporters of the conference until 1) the talking heads on TV mentioned "SEC speed" and then 2) fans from other conferences started looking for every reason to prove there was no such thing (and that the SEC isn't the best). But really, it is no different than someone knocking Cleveland as a city and then people from all over Ohio defending it because it happens to be in their state. People are naturally inclined to defend something they feel an association to and for various purposes (mostly familiarity), boundaries expand - the key thing being, other people grouped the SEC first. Why a person wouldn't want to be proud of their conference is beyond me.
  
  I understand where people find the "S-E-C" chants annoying. The funny thing is that people correlate that to crappy teams using the conference to prop themselves up, which isn't the case at all. I've heard that chanted by national title winners and it basically amounts to a show of respect to the gauntlet they had to run to get there (and in some cases, the games against the conference were much tougher than the title game itself). It isn't like Vandy loses to someone and does the chant as some way of saying, "you beat us, but we're still better because of our conference".
  
  And the reason that conference strength is so important, regardless of how much you like other teams in your conference is because it can make a difference when you are trying to get to the title game. If records are equal, how are people going to determine which two teams deserve to play for the title. It is nearly always going to come down to who beat the better teams as an entire body of work.
• Automatik

  

  I saw cats rockin' something similar to this last time I was in Powhatan.
  
  All SEC logos of course
  
  
• cats gone wild

  lhslep134;442330 wrote:I take it that I'm going to be a huge OSU fan since I was born, and especially since I'll be broadcasting play by play this year.
  
  I take it that I'm going to be a huge Florida fan this year when they rip LSwho to shreds, and then the only thing you'll be able to hang your hat on is the SAME PATHETIC YOU HANG YOUR HAT ON ALL THE TIME, THE SEC.
  
  As a Florida fan, I couldn't give two about the rest of the conference, I hate every other school, especially the fans like you who beat your chest for your conference when your team has a pathetic year and gets beat by a slowwwwwwwwwwwwwww Penn State team.

  How's this picture make you feel? Happy or sad. Please tell us.........
  
  
  
  Uploaded with ImageShack.us
• Automatik

  

  cats gone wild;442666 wrote:How's this picture make you feel? Happy or sad. Please tell us.........
  
  
  
  Uploaded with ImageShack.us

  
  lol.....point proven.
  
  So which is it? LSU or UF?
• lhslep134

  

  Let's put it this way. I skipped school the next day (senior year) after OSU got murdered by Florida. I was that distraught.
  
  I have nothing to hide, I'm a buckeye born and bred, I'm a third generation Buckeye. Someone in my family decided to attend Florida, and I've rooted for them since I was younger also because I thought the logo was awesome, had family ties, and it helped that Spurrier racked up points in bunches. It also never came into play with OSU bc they never played each other until the championship game.
• Automatik

  

  lhslep134;442842 wrote:Let's put it this way. I skipped school the next day (senior year) after OSU got murdered by Florida. I was that distraught.
  
  I have nothing to hide, I'm a buckeye born and bred, I'm a third generation Buckeye. Someone in my family decided to attend Florida, and I've rooted for them since I was younger also because I thought the logo was awesome, had family ties, and it helped that Spurrier racked up points in bunches. It also never came into play with OSU bc they never played each other until the championship game.

  It was the first day winter quarter....if I'm not mistaken. I remember it well. Cloudy day, everyone was so PISSED.
  
  Thats the only loss from the "mighty SEC" that irks me. Me, along with every other Buckeye fan, the coaches, players etc.....took that game for granted. I severly underestimated Florida's talent.
  
  As for the bball....I wasn't really mad. Hell I was shocked that we even made it that far. And for the LSU game.....same thing. I wasn't expecting to win that game from the go, although I was disappointed with how OSU played.
  
  Also, SEC fans are absolutely hilarious. Head down south for a game and you will see what I'm talking about. I always hear that "OSU fans are stupid" and blahhh blahh.....doesn't even compare to the Southern tards.
• SportsAndLady

  

  cats gone wild;442666 wrote:How's this picture make you feel? Happy or sad. Please tell us.........
  
  
  
  Uploaded with ImageShack.us

  
  All you do is come on this board and upload pictures from tigerdroppings onto this site...and act as if you're hilarious and made the picture yourself.
• Pick6

  

  lol, cats is one to be talking about rooting for 2 different teams...he roots for lsu football and kentucky in basketball..
• darbypitcher22

  

  some real interesting points, but let's just find out who's better by doing things the right way: Having a playoff
• TheMightyGators

  lhslep134;442329 wrote:No. That's something to be said for a conference over a span of 10 years.
  
  
  I'm talking about in any single year. In any single year the top of the SEC is the best in the country but that doesn't mean there's 3 other elite teams in the conference that year. In most years there's only 1 other "elite" team, if any.

  What about the SEC's bowl record over that time? The Big10 has been blasted the past 4-5 years because of their conference's bowl record, with the exception of last years 4-3 record. I don't think the Big10 ha been horrible, but it's far from great or near the best. Probably somewhere in the middle of the BCS conferences. For those who say they are now on par with the SEC is a bit ridiculous. Lets see them do it on the field first.
• TheMightyGators

  darbypitcher22;442940 wrote:some real interesting points, but let's just find out who's better by doing things the right way: Having a playoff

  
  I doubt you would like the results of a playoff.
• Cleveland Buck

  

  BCS Era
  
  1999 Citrus Bowl: Michigan 45, Arkansas 31
  1999 Outback Bowl: Penn State 26, Kentucky 14
  2000 Orange Bowl: Michigan 35, Alabama 34
  2000 Citrus Bowl: Michigan State 37, Florida 34
  2000 Outback Bowl: Georgia 28, Purdue 25
  2001 Citrus Bowl: Michigan 31, Auburn 28
  2001 Outback Bowl: South Carolina 24, Ohio State 7
  2002 Sugar Bowl: LSU 47, Illinois 34
  2002 Citrus Bowl: Tennessee 45, Michigan 17
  2002 Outback Bowl: South Carolina 31, Ohio State 28
  2002 Music City Bowl: Minnesota 29, Arkansas 14
  2003 Capital One Bowl: Auburn 13, Penn State 9
  2003 Outback Bowl: Michigan 38, Florida 30
  2003 Music City Bowl: Auburn 28, Wisconsin 14
  2004 Capital One Bowl: Georgia 34, Purdue 27
  2004 Outback Bowl: Iowa 37, Florida 17
  2004 Music City Bowl: Minnesota 20, Alabama 16
  2005 Capital One Bowl: Iowa 30, LSU 25
  2005 Outback Bowl: Georgia 24, Wisconsin 21
  2006 Capital One Bowl: Wisconsin 24, Auburn 10
  2006 Outback Bowl: Florida 31, Iowa 24
  2007 BCS National Championship: Florida 41, Ohio State 14
  2007 Capital One Bowl: Wisconsin 17, Arkansas 14
  2007 Outback Bowl: Penn State 20, Tennessee 10
  2008 BCS National Championship: LSU 38, Ohio State 24
  2008 Capital One Bowl: Michigan 41, Florida 35
  2008 Outback Bowl: Tennessee 21, Wisconsin 17
  2009 Outback Bowl: Iowa 31, South Carolina 10
  2009 Capital One Bowl: Georgia 24, Michigan State 12
  2010 Outback Bowl: Auburn 38, Northwestern 35
  2010 Capital One Bowl: Penn State 19, LSU 17
  
  Ohio State 0-4
  Michigan 5-1
  Iowa 3-1
  Illinois 0-1
  Michigan State 1-1
  Purdue 0-2
  Minnesota 2-0
  Wisconsin 2-3
  Penn State 2-1
  Big Ten - 15-14
  
  The Big Ten doesn't seem to have a problem getting it done against the SEC in bowl games.
• trackandccrunner

  Good thing Michigan is there to pick up OSU's slack...
• Automatik

  

  Cleveland Buck;443066 wrote:BCS Era
  
  1999 Citrus Bowl: Michigan 45, Arkansas 31
  1999 Outback Bowl: Penn State 26, Kentucky 14
  2000 Orange Bowl: Michigan 35, Alabama 34
  2000 Citrus Bowl: Michigan State 37, Florida 34
  2000 Outback Bowl: Georgia 28, Purdue 25
  2001 Citrus Bowl: Michigan 31, Auburn 28
  2001 Outback Bowl: South Carolina 24, Ohio State 7
  2002 Sugar Bowl: LSU 47, Illinois 34
  2002 Citrus Bowl: Tennessee 45, Michigan 17
  2002 Outback Bowl: South Carolina 31, Ohio State 28
  2002 Music City Bowl: Minnesota 29, Arkansas 14
  2003 Capital One Bowl: Auburn 13, Penn State 9
  2003 Outback Bowl: Michigan 38, Florida 30
  2003 Music City Bowl: Auburn 28, Wisconsin 14
  2004 Capital One Bowl: Georgia 34, Purdue 27
  2004 Outback Bowl: Iowa 37, Florida 17
  2004 Music City Bowl: Minnesota 20, Alabama 16
  2005 Capital One Bowl: Iowa 30, LSU 25
  2005 Outback Bowl: Georgia 24, Wisconsin 21
  2006 Capital One Bowl: Wisconsin 24, Auburn 10
  2006 Outback Bowl: Florida 31, Iowa 24
  2007 BCS National Championship: Florida 41, Ohio State 14
  2007 Capital One Bowl: Wisconsin 17, Arkansas 14
  2007 Outback Bowl: Penn State 20, Tennessee 10
  2008 BCS National Championship: LSU 38, Ohio State 24
  2008 Capital One Bowl: Michigan 41, Florida 35
  2008 Outback Bowl: Tennessee 21, Wisconsin 17
  2009 Outback Bowl: Iowa 31, South Carolina 10
  2009 Capital One Bowl: Georgia 24, Michigan State 12
  2010 Outback Bowl: Auburn 38, Northwestern 35
  2010 Capital One Bowl: Penn State 19, LSU 17
  
  Ohio State 0-4
  Michigan 5-1
  Iowa 3-1
  Illinois 0-1
  Michigan State 1-1
  Purdue 0-2
  Minnesota 2-0
  Wisconsin 2-3
  Penn State 2-1
  Big Ten - 15-14
  
  The Big Ten doesn't seem to have a problem getting it done against the SEC in bowl games.

  
  wtf is wrong with you!? Get out of here with those facts!!
• Cleveland Buck

  

  One thing that stands out is that the Big Ten has 7 double digit wins against the SEC and the SEC has 7 double digit wins against the Big Ten.
• lhslep134

  

  TheMightyGators;443006 wrote:What about the SEC's bowl record over that time? The Big10 has been blasted the past 4-5 years because of their conference's bowl record, with the exception of last years 4-3 record. I don't think the Big10 ha been horrible, but it's far from great or near the best. Probably somewhere in the middle of the BCS conferences. For those who say they are now on par with the SEC is a bit ridiculous. Lets see them do it on the field first.

  
  It's a matter of individual matchups. A 5-2 bowl record is fantastic for a conference, but if 4 of those 5 wins were complete mismatches and the conference teams goes 1-2 in games against teams of comparable talent, then I wouldn't necessarily say that 5-2 means they're the best conference.
• TheMightyGators

  lhslep134;443408 wrote:It's a matter of individual matchups. A 5-2 bowl record is fantastic for a conference, but if 4 of those 5 wins were complete mismatches and the conference teams goes 1-2 in games against teams of comparable talent, then I wouldn't necessarily say that 5-2 means they're the best conference.

  
  it's a credit to the conference that they have better talent. I know recruits rankings don't always pan out to be as good as predicted, but for the most part they do. Just take a look at the team rankings in any year. The SEC dominates in recruiting. Just look at 2011 to this point. It's ridiculous.
• namod65

  

  Haha the SEC chest thumpers here are so offended by my stab at Florida and yet they still can't remember how they were before Tebow: Just okay, decent, respectable, average, etc. One title and two Heismans, tons of programs can claim those facts. I think they are a multiple loss team this year, sorry but you don't just replace Tim Tebow. You SECers sure let us know how great he was when he was there. There's going to be a drop off, it's inevitable.
• TheMightyGators

  namod65;444364 wrote:Haha the SEC chest thumpers here are so offended by my stab at Florida and yet they still can't remember how they were before Tebow: Just okay, decent, respectable, average, etc. One title and two Heismans, tons of programs can claim those facts. I think they are a multiple loss team this year, sorry but you don't just replace Tim Tebow. You SECers sure let us know how great he was when he was there. There's going to be a drop off, it's inevitable.

  
  Only the best record in college football the past 20 years. It's better to be thought of as an idiot, than to open up your mouth and remove all doubt.
• lhslep134

  

  TheMightyGators;444428 wrote:Only the best record in college football the past 20 years. It's better to be thought of as an idiot, than to open up your mouth and remove all doubt.

  
  Yeah man what a fucking idiot. Didn't the Gators win a national championship before Tebow was a starter?