intentional grounding

• mhs95_06

  I'm wondering how the rule actually is. They say to avoid intentional grounding the QB has to be outside the tackle box and the throw has to go past the line of scrimmage. Yesterday Pryor threw one that they said didn't get past the line of scrimmage, but it looked to me like it landed past the LOS, but was way out of bounds. Does the rule state that it has go go past the LOS in the air and inside the sideline, or is it supposed to matter if it is way OB so long as where it lands is past the extended LOS?
• WebFire

  I always assume it is where the ball crosses the sideline.
• derek bomar

  

  yea i dont get this rule...like when a qb spikes it to stop the clock, how is that not intentional grounding?
• Altor

  An immediate spike to stop the clock is not intentional grounding by rule.
  
  I can't answer the part about where it crosses the sideline. I swear Forcier threw a ball on the following possession for Michigan that crossed behind the down marker too.
• WebFire

  Altor wrote: An immediate spike to stop the clock is not intentional grounding by rule.
  
  I can't answer the part about where it crosses the sideline. I swear Forcier threw a ball on the following possession for Michigan that crossed behind the down marker too.

  No, that one went past the marker before going out of bounds.
• football71

  I could quote the high school rule on intentional grounding, but I don't have an NCAA rulebook with me. In high school, there is no such thing as a "tackle box," so the rules are different between the two. I'll get the answer for you as soon as I can.
• mhs95_06

  On the spike, I think intentional grounding is if you are trying to avoid losing yardage, not time.
• 3reppom

  

  There is an exception to the rule when it comes to killing the clock. If there is a receiver deemed to be "in the area" the QB can ground it at his feet at any time and it will be a legal play. The only time the QB has to be outside the box and throw the ball beyond the LOS is if there is no receiver in the area.
• Altor

  Rule 7-3-2-f:

  f. If, to save loss of yardage, a forward pass is thrown where no eligible Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch it. When in question, the Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch the pass (A.R. 7-3-2-I) [S36 and S9].
  
  [Exception: It is not a foul when the passer, who is or has been outside the tackle box, throws the ball so that it crosses or lands beyond the neutral zone or neutral zone extended (Rule 2-19-3) (A.R. 7-3-2-IX)].
  PENALTY—Loss of down at the spot of the foul [S36 and S9].

  I was wrong, there is no exception for an immediate spike, since an immediate spike is not done "to save loss of yardage."
• Altor

  3reppom wrote: There is an exception to the rule when it comes to killing the clock. If there is a receiver deemed to be "in the area" the QB can ground it at his feet at any time and it will be a legal play. The only time the QB has to be outside the box and throw the ball beyond the LOS is if there is no receiver in the area.

  The statement in bold is not true. The receiver must have a reasonable opportunity to catch it. I often argue that this is not called enough.
  
  I was at a D-III game a couple weeks ago where the QB was about to go down and he threw the ball at his full back who had his back to the QB. The full back turned around just in time to watch the ball land at his feet. The referee was in the process of throwing his flag while the ball was still in the air.
  
  It was the right call, but I have to question what he would have done if the full back had gotten a hand on the pass since he had already decided that it was IG.
• se-alum

  

  The statement in bold is not true. The receiver must have a reasonable opportunity to catch it. I often argue that this is not called enough.

  It might not be technically true, but it's never called that way. Peyton Manning is the master of that play!
• dat dude

  Altor wrote:

  3reppom wrote: There is an exception to the rule when it comes to killing the clock. If there is a receiver deemed to be "in the area" the QB can ground it at his feet at any time and it will be a legal play. The only time the QB has to be outside the box and throw the ball beyond the LOS is if there is no receiver in the area.

  The statement in bold is not true. The receiver must have a reasonable opportunity to catch it. I often argue that this is not called enough.

  Are you sure? I don't think you are correct. I'm with 3reppom.
• 3reppom

  

  It's entirely a judgement call. The verbiage is that the receiver has to have a reasonable opportunity to catch the ball. However the official has the sole discretion to determine what is "reasonable". In reality if there is a receiver within 3 or so yards of where the ball landed the official won't throw the flag.
• football71

  Altor, Any flag thrown in error can be picked up, and waved off.
• Altor

  I know. But in a case like that, I'd imagine his face would be awfully red while he was waving it off. Probably not as embarrassing as an inadvertent whistle, though.
• mhs95_06

  Altor wrote: Rule 7-3-2-f:

  f. If, to save loss of yardage, a forward pass is thrown where no eligible Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch it. When in question, the Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch the pass (A.R. 7-3-2-I) [S36 and S9].
  
  [Exception: It is not a foul when the passer, who is or has been outside the tackle box, throws the ball so that it crosses or lands beyond the neutral zone or neutral zone extended (Rule 2-19-3) (A.R. 7-3-2-IX)].
  PENALTY—Loss of down at the spot of the foul [S36 and S9].

  I was wrong, there is no exception for an immediate spike, since an immediate spike is not done "to save loss of yardage."

  So, in answer to my original question, the ball does not have to be "in bounds" when it crosses the LOS when the passer is outside the tackle box. So this means there is no limit to how far OB it is thrown, so long as it crosses the extended LOS in the air.
  
  So I think the one Pryor got called for was in error as the ball did just barely go past the extended LOS. Is that something that can be challenged, and if video evidence shows that it did go past the line, reversible? And would it be within the ref's right once it was shown by video to be wrong, to go back and say that "Oh yes, he wasn't outside the tackle box either" and not negate the penalty?
  
  Also, why is there no punitive penalty for being caught intentionally grounding? The result is the same as if you just got tackled! It just encourages QBs to keep trying as it doesn't cost them anything to try!
• bigkahuna

  I thought the problem with Pryor was that he didnt get outside the tackle box. From where I was sitting, that's what it looked like. When the replayed it on the monitors, it still looked like he was inside the box. The pass wasnt the issue
• Altor

  The announcers were the ones going on about the tackle box, and they didn't know what they were talking about. The referee didn't drop the flag until the line judge came over to tell him the pass didn't reach the LOS.
• bigkahuna

  I was at the game, so I didnt hear the announcers. That was just the way it looked to me from my seat
• OneBuckeye

  

  Pryor got called for that because he didn't get outside the tackle box. It has to go over the LOS in the air, in bounds if there is no intended reciever close. I like the rule and see nothing wrong with it.
• Laley23

  

  On the ball crossing the LOS out of bounds I was always under the impression that if it was "close" to being inbounds at the time it was ok. But if the QB throws it and it crosses the LOS like 10 yards out of bounds that is intentional grounding.