Why would a top recruit want to play for Roy Williams?

• SportsAndLady

  

  He's has like ONE very good player in the NBA, almost all of them fail.
  
  If you're a top recruit, how do you not see this list and still want to play for him?
• SportsAndLady

  

  In almost 25 years of coaching, these are his players sent to the NBA
  
  Paul Pierce
  Kirk Hinrich
  Nick Collison
  Drew Gooden
  Wayne Simien
  Kieth Langford
  Aaron Miles
  Raef LaFrentz
  Greg Ostertag
  Scot Pollard
  Jacque Vaughn
  Rex Walters
  Kevin Pritchard
  Billy Thomas
  Mark Randall
  Darrin Hancock
  Sean May
  Rashad McCants
  Raymond Felton
  Marvin Williams
  David Noel
  Jawad Williams
  Brandan Wright
  Tyler Hansbrough
  Ty Lawson
  Wayne Ellington
  Danny Green
  Ed Davis
• cview

  How many coaches really send a ton of studs to the NBA? Since the beginning of the decade, if you're going to be an NBA star, you either a) skipped college altogether or b) went for the mandatory one year, in which coaches probably don't make a HUGE difference.
  
  Also, seeing that list would probably make me WANT to go play for him. Look how many guys he has prepped for/sent to the NBA.
• Laley23

  

  Its a more impressive list than Bill Self's....
  
  Deron Williams
  Brandon Rush
  
  Those are the only 2 I would consider good/decent.
• ironman02

  lol...where did this thread come from? Did a Carolina fan piss you off, S&L?
• mattinctown

  I'm a Duke fan, but what a fucking stupid ass thread.
• SportsAndLady

  

  ironman02;424829 wrote:lol...where did this thread come from? Did a Carolina fan piss you off, S&L?

  
  Actually no I was talking to a friend who happens to be a Duke fan, and he asked me to name the best player outside Paul Pierce that Roy Williams coached, and my answer was Kirk Heinrich...pretty weak.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Laley23;424828 wrote:Its a more impressive list than Bill Self's....
  
  Deron Williams
  Brandon Rush
  
  Those are the only 2 I would consider good/decent.

  
  Michael Ruffin
  Robert Archibald
  James Augustine
  Dee Brown
  Brian Cook
  Luther Head
  Roger Powell
  Deron Williams
  Frank Williams
  Cole Aldrich
  Darrell Arthur
  Sherron Collins
  Mario Chalmers
  Xavier Henry
  Darnell Jackson
  Sasha Kaun
  Aaron Miles
  Brandon Rush
  Wayne Simien
  Julian Wright
  
  Self's been coaching 6 years less than Roy, and didn't get to a big school til 2001. Roy's been coaching Kansas or North Carolina since 1988.
  
  Sure those aren't great names, and this really isn't about Bill Self, but it's not a bad list for only coaching NBA-type-prospect schools for 9 years.
• SportsAndLady

  

  And why is it that I bring up something negative about a coach, and I have to be a hater? I can't have intelligent discussion on the matter? If I realize that it was a stupid question, i'll admit that it was a stupid question. It just surprised me when I saw that list of players, that's all. I realize not every coach is going to have a great list, but you'd think Roy's would be a little better?
• thedynasty1998

  

  To answer the original question, why would a top recruit want to play for Roy Williams?
  
  1. To be in a position to win a national championship
  2. It's UNC
• SportsAndLady

  

  thedynasty1998;425083 wrote:To answer the original question, why would a top recruit want to play for Roy Williams?
  
  1. To be in a position to win a national championship
  2. It's UNC

  
  Right but if you're good enough to play for UNC, is your top priority not to play professional basketball? And succeed? Seems to me, Roy's players are coached to win college championships, not to succeed at the next level.
• Prescott

  I guess this means Calipari is the best college coach for players with dreams of starring in the NBA.
• cview

  SportsAndLady;425089 wrote:Right but if you're good enough to play for UNC, is your top priority not to play professional basketball? And succeed? Seems to me, Roy's players are coached to win college championships, not to succeed at the next level.

  UNC pays him to win college championships, the same way Kansas pays Bill Self to win college titles and Duke pays Coach K to win college titles. Anything on top of that is gravy. I'm not calling you out at all because I don't think the thread was meant in a malicious way. Just in the past 5 years, his lottery picks have been:
  
  Marvin Williams
  Raymond Felton
  Sean May
  Rashad McCants
  Brandan Wright
  Tyler Hansbrough
  Ed Davis
  
  
  It looks to me like he wasn't phenomenal at getting NBA talent to KU but at UNC he's sending a ton of guys to the NBA.
  
  He also hasn't put many good big guys into the NBA. I think that could be a product of a) how many great, back to the basket big guys are there in the NBA anyway? and b) How many NBA big guys could play at the breakneck pace KU and now UNC played at on a yearly basis? But if you were to start an NBA team right now for a season with your 1s, 2s, and 3s being Kirk Hinrich, Raymond Felton, Ty Lawson, Paul Pierce, Marvin Williams, and Wayne Ellington...you'd be in pretty decent shape at those positions as four of those guys started on playoff teams.
• wildcats20

  

  Right but if you're good enough to play for UNC, is your top priority not to play professional basketball? And succeed? Seems to me, Roy's players are

  
  
  UNC pays him to win college championships, the same way Kansas pays Bill Self to win college titles and Duke pays Coach K to win college titles. Anything on top of that is gravy. I'm not calling you out at all because I don't think the thread was meant in a malicious way. Just in the past 5 years, his lottery picks have been:
  
  
  
  Marvin Williams
  
  Raymond Felton
  
  Sean May
  
  Rashad McCants
  
  Brandan Wright
  
  Tyler Hansbrough
  
  Ed Davis
  
  
  
  
  
  It looks to me like he wasn't phenomenal at getting NBA talent to KU but at UNC he's sending a ton of guys to the NBA.
  
  
  
  He also hasn't put many good big guys into the NBA. I think that could be a product of a) how many great, back to the basket big guys are there in the NBA anyway? and b) How many NBA big guys could play at the breakneck pace KU and now UNC played at on a yearly basis? But if you were to start an NBA team right now for a season with your 1s, 2s, and 3s being Kirk Hinrich, Raymond Felton, Ty Lawson, Paul Pierce, Marvin Williams, and Wayne Ellington...you'd be in pretty decent shape at those positions as three of those guys started on playoff teams.

  I would say the lack of "good" big guys is because of his style of play.
• SportsAndLady

  

  cview;425231 wrote:UNC pays him to win college championships, the same way Kansas pays Bill Self to win college titles and Duke pays Coach K to win college titles

  
  That's exactly what I am saying. I am not criticizing Roy, he's doing what he's being paid to do. I'm just saying from a top recruit's standpoint, wouldn't you rather go play for a guy like Calipari? Who has turned out ridiculous NBA talent? Wouldn't you be afraid that you won't be able to succeed in the NBA looking at his players sent to the NBA list and not seeing that great of success?
• thedynasty1998

  

  I didn't think your intent was to bash him either, but his track record of putting guys in the NBA is still pretty good, it's not on his how well they develop once they get there.
• Laley23

  

  Coach Cal has had the luxury of landing some guys that would be stars regardless of college. Who's to say because they are going to be leaving after a year other coaches didnt even want to recruit them? Hell, Derrick Rose had to cheat to get into college. Camby was more than likely paid.
• swamisez

  

  the landscape of college basketball and pro ball has changed so much over the last ten years.
  
  By your criteria, one could say Rick Barnes has produced better pros than Roy
  Kevin Durant>than any UNC player under Roy's watch
  
  Do we believe that statement to be true? probably not, it is just that the great players are great by the time they hit college, so their choice of school is somewhat irrelevant. Carmelo going to Syracuse, KD to Texas, even Wall to Kentucky. Do we think that these guys chose their schools because they wanted the best professional development? No they chose based on geography and in Wall's case, a stack of cash.
• Heelz

  

  SportsAndLady;425237 wrote:That's exactly what I am saying. I am not criticizing Roy, he's doing what he's being paid to do. I'm just saying from a top recruit's standpoint, wouldn't you rather go play for a guy like Calipari? Who has turned out ridiculous NBA talent? Wouldn't you be afraid that you won't be able to succeed in the NBA looking at his players sent to the NBA list and not seeing that great of success?

  
  If you have doubt that you can't play at the next level than your probably not a top recruit. All those guys believe that they belong in the L and would probably go if they didn't have to go to college. In a case like HBarnes he sounds like he wants to be in school (I just hope he isn't a 1 and done.)
• ironman02

  SportsAndLady;425072 wrote:Actually no I was talking to a friend who happens to be a Duke fan, and he asked me to name the best player outside Paul Pierce that Roy Williams coached, and my answer was Kirk Heinrich...pretty weak.

  
  I should have known this was orchestrated by a dookie.
• Heelz

  

  You should have asked your dook friend who was the last dookie to be worth a f*ck in the NBA .......ever.
• Swamp Fox

  Many players today aren't there to be prepped for the NBA. They know that teams will be climbing over each other to draft all of these "Super-Stars" after one or two years at the most in college. They know all there is to know already and that's that. I think a college coach, if he or she is really good, is coaching for a lot more than to insure that his/her players get to the NBA or WNBA. The coaches, particularly men's coaches, realize that the good players will leave and the coach will have to "rebuild" every year in some cases. Just ask Thad Matta. I think the best coaches at every level teach about the right and wrong way to play the game, but also the right and wrong way to behave in society. Some players don't pick up on that after leaving for the pros. I don't think the effectiveness of a coach can be measured by some "scorecard" of NBA prospects that some coach amasses.
• reclegend22

  

  It's kind of funny when you think about it, because this is usually a central argument in UNC fans' criticism of K; that he can't produce NBA talent.
  
  Well, off the top of my head, I'd say K's list of well-developed NBA talent far outshines Roy's. (I'll only list those players that went on to have "successful" or "impacting" NBA careers to some degree. This can be for a short period, in Chris Duhon's case, or longer period.)
  
  Christian Laettner
  Grant Hill
  Corey Maggette
  Elton Brand
  Shane Battier
  Mike Dunleavy
  Carlos Boozer
  Chris Duhon
  Luol Deng
  J.J. Redick
  
  With that said, I agree with the notion that college coaches are employed for one thing and one thing only: to win college titles. That's it. And there is no arguing that Roy and K do that better than anyone else, with K being the golden standard by which all others are measured in the college game today.
• Heelz

  

  reclegend22;431986 wrote:It's kind of funny when you think about it, because this is usually a central argument in UNC fans' criticism of K; that he can't produce NBA talent.
  
  Well, off the top of my head, I'd say K's list of well-developed NBA talent far outshines Roy's. (I'll only list those players that went on to have "successful" or "impacting" NBA careers to some degree. This can be for a short period, in Chris Duhon's case, or longer period.)
  
  Christian Laettner
  Grant Hill
  Corey Maggette
  Elton Brand
  Shane Battier
  Mike Dunleavy
  Carlos Boozer
  Chris Duhon
  Luol Deng
  J.J. Redick
  
  With that said, I agree with the notion that college coaches are employed for one thing and one thing only: to win college titles. That's it. And there is no arguing that Roy and K do that better than anyone else, with K being the golden standard by which all others are measured in the college game today.

  
  I respect you Rec and your opinions and have always thought you to be a poster that knows what he's talking about, but the only ones on the list actually "making an impact" are Redick ( kinda) Deng, Boozer and Hill just this past year. Christian Laettner ( who is the central argument far all duke fans) Laettner's only accmoplishments were in college unless you call being shipped around to different teams and being suspended for failing three drug tests an impact.
  I think that k is a great coach and one of the best ever without question. ( as much as it hurts to say it) But I wouldn't say his players NBA careers are better than any of Roys. Like you said they are college coaches and are two of the best.
• GOONx19

  

  ^ Maggette is averaging twenty a game since 2002. Elton Brand is averaging 19 and 10 over his career.