Kentucky has a big day
-
thedynasty1998
I disagree with you here. I don't think there are 10 coaches who can recruit the same way Calipari can.centralbucksfan wrote: First of all, there are at least 10 or more other coaches who can do the same when they walk into a living room. Lets be frank, do you honestly believe that Cal had THAT MUCH to do in terms of getting all his one and done ready for the NBA in the LESS then a year he had them.
Those guys, no matter where they went, would have been one and done, I have no doubt about that. He helped, but not near as much as people want to believe.
Secondly, what did that team accomplish this past year? Remarkable? They didn't make the final four...which IMO, was an underacheivement with the talent they had. I think ANY UK fan would say the same.
Lastly, there is no quesiton Cal can recruit. Can he coach? Thats the question. But as far as recruiting is concerned...I believe things will eventually level out. He is the new guy on the block at the traditional power. Similar to when Williams took over UNC. He was pulling in huge classes. He still is, but it has leveled off. Samething will eventually happen with Cal. Especially if he doesn't get a title or at least to the final four.
He has coached in the NBA, that's one advantage he has over Izzo, K, Williams, Howland and most others. He can walk into a home and say, "Look I've coached in the NBA and know what it takes and how to get you there." Everyone can say it, but he's the only one with the experience (other than Pitino).
How can you not say last year was remarkable? UK wasn't a tourney team before he took the job, and within one year with really only one key player returning they reach #1 in the rankings. That's unheard of. Was he more talented than most? Yes. But that's a result of his recruiting.
With the recent success of Douglas Roberts, Rose and Evans, he has more credibility than anyone else when he says he will have you ready for the NBA.
His recruiting will not level off. I don't see it happening at UK. -
sleeper
He can have as many top recruits as he wants, he will NEVER win a National Championship because he's just not a great coach. Great recruiter? Sure, maybe the best, but the point of being a coach is not to recruit the best players, its to win National Championships. -
centralbucksfan
Coached in the NBA, and was aweful. Big deal. 10 coaches in any order:thedynasty1998 wrote:
I disagree with you here. I don't think there are 10 coaches who can recruit the same way Calipari can.centralbucksfan wrote: First of all, there are at least 10 or more other coaches who can do the same when they walk into a living room. Lets be frank, do you honestly believe that Cal had THAT MUCH to do in terms of getting all his one and done ready for the NBA in the LESS then a year he had them.
Those guys, no matter where they went, would have been one and done, I have no doubt about that. He helped, but not near as much as people want to believe.
Secondly, what did that team accomplish this past year? Remarkable? They didn't make the final four...which IMO, was an underacheivement with the talent they had. I think ANY UK fan would say the same.
Lastly, there is no quesiton Cal can recruit. Can he coach? Thats the question. But as far as recruiting is concerned...I believe things will eventually level out. He is the new guy on the block at the traditional power. Similar to when Williams took over UNC. He was pulling in huge classes. He still is, but it has leveled off. Samething will eventually happen with Cal. Especially if he doesn't get a title or at least to the final four.
He has coached in the NBA, that's one advantage he has over Izzo, K, Williams, Howland and most others. He can walk into a home and say, "Look I've coached in the NBA and know what it takes and how to get you there." Everyone can say it, but he's the only one with the experience (other than Pitino).
How can you not say last year was remarkable? UK wasn't a tourney team before he took the job, and within one year with really only one key player returning they reach #1 in the rankings. That's unheard of. Was he more talented than most? Yes. But that's a result of his recruiting.
With the recent success of Douglas Roberts, Rose and Evans, he has more credibility than anyone else when he says he will have you ready for the NBA.
His recruiting will not level off. I don't see it happening at UK.
1. Williams
2. Howland
3. Matta
4. Coach K
5. Calhoun
6. Donovan
7. Barnes
8. Self
9. Boeheim
10. Huggins
I ripped off those names within 30 seconds. All have had many recruits go one and done/leave early.
I never said all were as good as Cal in recruiting...although a few are very comparable IMO, and possibly better when you look at where they are compared to a storied program like UK.
Unheard of? Matta took OSU to the final in his 3rd season. Its not unheard of. And yes, the recruiting will level off at somepoint, always does. -
GOONx19
I don't know if I'd say he couldn't throw it in the ocean. He was shooting over 40% heading into the tourney and went 8/9 in the opener. He's the current record holder for most threes in a tournament game, and he's not a shooting guard.centralbucksfan wrote:
And this I would agree with for the most part.Azubuike24 wrote:
It's kind of interesting if you take a look at many of the huge recruits who went on their own to lesser-known schools to be "the man." How many of them worked out to having the impact they wanted? Just in the last few years...
Tiny Gallon, Oklahoma
Lance Stephenson, Cincinnati
Kenny Boynton, Florida
Willie Warren, Oklahoma
J'Mison Morgan, UCLA
Chris Singleton, Florida State
Tony Woods, Wake Forest
All of these guys haven't helped their stock at all and none of them have really accomplished anything in college.
But with the list above..I am not so sure it had to do with the school they chose as much as how they performed. Boynton for example, having seen him play a number of times...he is a pretty good PG, but nothing great IMO. Stephenson, although he shows potential, isn't exactly real consistant. I mean, Bledsoe could be on that list..only avg 11pts a game, and couldn't throw it in the ocean in NCAA. He honestly wasn't that much better then those above. But he got some recognition while playing at UK while those above didn't.
Also, 11 ppg on a team with five draft picks isn't exactly bad. -
SportsAndLady
He said the 1st year...you say it's not unheard of by giving an example of someone who did it in his 3rd year?centralbucksfan wrote:Unheard of? Matta took OSU to the final in his 3rd season. Its not unheard of -
thedynasty1998
Calipari did make the playoffs one year and struggled the year of the lockout after Cassell got hurt. So he did have a little bit of success, and he can still say that he coached in the NBA unlike anyone else on that list.centralbucksfan wrote: Coached in the NBA, and was aweful. Big deal. 10 coaches in any order:
1. Williams
2. Howland
3. Matta
4. Coach K
5. Calhoun
6. Donovan
7. Barnes
8. Self
9. Boeheim
10. Huggins
I ripped off those names within 30 seconds. All have had many recruits go one and done/leave early.
I never said all were as good as Cal in recruiting...although a few are very comparable IMO, and possibly better when you look at where they are compared to a storied program like UK.
Unheard of? Matta took OSU to the final in his 3rd season. Its not unheard of. And yes, the recruiting will level off at somepoint, always does.
What Matta did is equally impressive and honestly I think he's the only guy who is as good of a recruiter as Calipari. I know K and Williams and Barnes all get it done in recruiting, but at this point in their careers the schools recruit themselves (like UK does). Calipari got it done at Memphis and Matta is getting it done at a football school. -
SQ_Crazies
Could ask the same of your boy Thad Matta. But God knows you'll have a shit fit as soon as you read that..centralbucksfan wrote: Lastly, there is no quesiton Cal can recruit. Can he coach? Thats the question. -
centralbucksfan
Only if I can shit on your bandwagon face.SQ_Crazies wrote:
Could ask the same of your boy Thad Matta. But God knows you'll have a shit fit as soon as you read that..centralbucksfan wrote: Lastly, there is no quesiton Cal can recruit. Can he coach? Thats the question.
But ya, I know what you mean. In only 9yrs as a head coach: NCAA runnerup, Elite 8, sweet 16, 3 big ten titles in 6 years, won conference titles in 3 different conferences. Yup, Matta is pretty questionable coach, thats obvious I guess. -
centralbucksfan
To do this day, considering the mess that Matta took over at OSU...what Matta did was more impressive IMO.SportsAndLady wrote:
He said the 1st year...you say it's not unheard of by giving an example of someone who did it in his 3rd year?centralbucksfan wrote:Unheard of? Matta took OSU to the final in his 3rd season. Its not unheard of
Again, Cal brought in a great class last year....a class MOST expected a final four out of, at the VERY least. Matta got his big class to the finals. -
SQ_Crazies
Yeah, exactly. He can recruit like a mother fucker but can he ever win the big one? I'd say any OSU fan would agree that they were disappointed when they got knocked out of the tournament prematurely this year.
Love that you think I'm a bandwagon fan too. -
thedynasty1998
Can't you make that same argument for Calipari?centralbucksfan wrote: Only if I can shit on your bandwagon face.
But ya, I know what you mean. In only 9yrs as a head coach: NCAA runnerup, Elite 8, sweet 16, 3 big ten titles in 6 years, won conference titles in 3 different conferences. Yup, Matta is pretty questionable coach, thats obvious I guess.
Last 9 years:
Sweet 16 once
Elite 8 three times
National Runner Up
Conference title in 3 conferences. 2 teams to Final 4 (and don't give me the NCAA infractions crap).
You want to say Matta is a good coach and Calipari isn't, yet Caliparis resume is better. -
SQ_Crazies
There is without a doubt some other reason that Cal had that success, he's just a recruiter. Patiently waiting for the response to this one...thedynasty1998 wrote:
Can't you make that same argument for Calipari?centralbucksfan wrote: Only if I can shit on your bandwagon face.
But ya, I know what you mean. In only 9yrs as a head coach: NCAA runnerup, Elite 8, sweet 16, 3 big ten titles in 6 years, won conference titles in 3 different conferences. Yup, Matta is pretty questionable coach, thats obvious I guess.
Last 9 years:
Sweet 16 once
Elite 8 three times
National Runner Up
Conference title in 3 conferences. 2 teams to Final 4 (and don't give me the NCAA infractions crap).
You want to say Matta is a good coach and Calipari isn't, yet Caliparis resume is better. -
thedynasty1998
Matta took over a team that was 17-15 and 14-16 in the previous two seasons, and inherited a team with Butler (O'Brien's recruit), Dials, Sylvester, Sullinger, Stockman and Harris.centralbucksfan wrote: To do this day, considering the mess that Matta took over at OSU...what Matta did was more impressive IMO.
Not exactly the same as what Calipari took over. -
SportsAndLady
Doesn't Calipari have those same exact accomplishments? Hell, I would argue that winning 7 of 8 C-USA titles is "better" than winning 3 of 6 Big Ten titles.centralbucksfan wrote:But ya, I know what you mean. In only 9yrs as a head coach: NCAA runnerup, Elite 8, sweet 16, 3 big ten titles in 6 years, won conference titles in 3 different conferences. Yup, Matta is pretty questionable coach, thats obvious I guess.
-
centralbucksfan
Matta took over a program that the NCAA was still hovering over with major violations waiting in the wings. And got commitments from top recruits while that was going on. Lets not forget that. Doing it at OSU with your above is one thing, doing it with the NCAA crap takes it to another level.thedynasty1998 wrote:
Matta took over a team that was 17-15 and 14-16 in the previous two seasons, and inherited a team with Butler (O'Brien's recruit), Dials, Sylvester, Sullinger, Stockman and Harris.centralbucksfan wrote: To do this day, considering the mess that Matta took over at OSU...what Matta did was more impressive IMO.
Not exactly the same as what Calipari took over.
And I never said Cal was a "bad" coach. Just think the guy gets way too much credit nationally for someone who has yet to win a title, cheated his way to 2 final fours. Which by the way, don't technically count on the resume'. Its not crap, its FACT. Cal has also been a head coach twice as long as Matta, 18yrs.(thats not even counting NBA) Much longer to establish himself. -
centralbucksfan
Techincally, no he doesn't. Ask the NCAA.SportsAndLady wrote:
Doesn't Calipari have those same exact accomplishments? Hell, I would argue that winning 7 of 8 C-USA titles is "better" than winning 3 of 6 Big Ten titles.centralbucksfan wrote:But ya, I know what you mean. In only 9yrs as a head coach: NCAA runnerup, Elite 8, sweet 16, 3 big ten titles in 6 years, won conference titles in 3 different conferences. Yup, Matta is pretty questionable coach, thats obvious I guess.
-
SQ_Crazies
LOL...glad to see you're still the same homer you always were.
-
centralbucksfan
Sure as hell beats being the bandwagon fan you are.SQ_Crazies wrote: LOL...glad to see you're still the same homer you always were. BTW, you a Cal/ UK fan now? -
SQ_Crazies
No, not at all. But, I'd love to hear you explain how I'm a bandwagon fan.
-
Azubuike24
Eric Bledsoe was a bigtime recruit, but he was NOT considered a one and done guy. He went to Kentucky, with 3 recruits more highly touted them himself and another player in Patterson who was also a potential lottery pick. Bledsoe was a guy who many figured he would be around 2-3 years, would back up John Wall and would be developed.
What happens? He goes to UK. He gets a ton of recognition, both from his fellow teammates and his team, he gets major minutes and he's a potential one and done first rounder. This could easily be Kenny Boynton, Lance Stephenson or another player in Bledsoe's shoes. Those guys were better prospects coming into the season.
Had Bledsoe scored 16 PPG on a average BCS team would he be considered a first round pick? Would he be as known as he is? All speculation, but this is definitely a case where piggy-backing on Wall and Cousins helped the kid's stock. I happen to think he's far from ready for the NBA, especially not at the PG position, but he's gonna get drafted.
Lance Stephenson may not be drafted and Kenny Boynton didn't even consider turning pro. -
Azubuike24
Some of the haters should read this article as well.
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/21082628?tag=comBlogEntryListCnt;entry21082628 -
GOONx19
I don't think that it means anything at all, but Darnell Dodson just told me he's coming back next year. Take it for what it's worth.
-
Azubuike24
Conflicting reports about Darnell coming back. I, for one, am a Darnell fan. I hope he returns. Expectations of him coming out of JUCO were pretty high, and although he's definitely a good offensive player, I think he's capable defensively and athletically. He can still be a huge contributor in the future.
-
centralbucksfan
Bledsoe is NOT going to get drafted because he "piggy backed" on Wall and Cousin. He is going to get drafted for his ability. NBA people are far from perfect when it comes to drafting players...but they aren't stupid enough to just draft someone because they got media attention and/or played at UK. Thats a ridiculous notion. Bledsoe may not be ready, but he has that big word next to his name...potential.Azubuike24 wrote: Eric Bledsoe was a bigtime recruit, but he was NOT considered a one and done guy. He went to Kentucky, with 3 recruits more highly touted them himself and another player in Patterson who was also a potential lottery pick. Bledsoe was a guy who many figured he would be around 2-3 years, would back up John Wall and would be developed.
What happens? He goes to UK. He gets a ton of recognition, both from his fellow teammates and his team, he gets major minutes and he's a potential one and done first rounder. This could easily be Kenny Boynton, Lance Stephenson or another player in Bledsoe's shoes. Those guys were better prospects coming into the season.
Had Bledsoe scored 16 PPG on a average BCS team would he be considered a first round pick? Would he be as known as he is? All speculation, but this is definitely a case where piggy-backing on Wall and Cousins helped the kid's stock. I happen to think he's far from ready for the NBA, especially not at the PG position, but he's gonna get drafted.
Lance Stephenson may not be drafted and Kenny Boynton didn't even consider turning pro.
And Stephenson will get drafted. He is projected as late 1st, early 2nd round. And Boynton just isn't as good as many thought IMO. -
Azubuike24
Eric Bledsoe, before the season, did not have the stock that Stephenson and Boynton did. That was my only point. Bledsoe, playing with Wall and Cousins did nothing but help his recognition. Recognition, can't hurt. Simple as that.