Ohio Chatter DEV

krambman

Now that we know Turner is gone and assuming that Buford is coming back, what will OSU's starting five look like next season? The biggest need obviously is at Point Guard because both Turner and PJ Hill are gone. They have Aaron Craft coming in next year from Findlay who is a PG. Is it possible that they try to move Buford or Lighty to PG, or will the freshman get the start? I also assume that they are going to try and work Sullinger into the starting lineup but I'm not exactly sure how. He can play the five but he's really more of a forward than a center, but he brings a lot more offensively than Lauderdale does. I think that we may see three or four guys who start every game and another two or three guys who rotate in and out of the starting lineup depending on our opponent.

So, what are your thoughts on who will be in the starting five for OSU next season?

thedynasty1998

Start of season lineup:
1 - Lighty
2 - Buford
3 - Diebler
4 - Sullinger
5 - Lauderdale

End of season lineup:
1 - Craft
2 - Buford
3 - Lighty
4 - Thomas
5 - Sullinger

devil1197

End of the season

Craft
Buford
Diebler
Lighty
Sullinger

Thomas and Lauderdale first two off the bench.

krambman

thedynasty1998 wrote: Start of season lineup:
1 - Lighty
2 - Buford
3 - Diebler
4 - Sullinger
5 - Lauderdale

End of season lineup:
1 - Craft
2 - Buford
3 - Lighty
4 - Thomas
5 - Sullinger

There's no way that Deibler doesn't start the whole season. You may not like Jon Deibler, but coach Matta obviously does. The guy was first off the bench his freshman year, started the last two years, and he played more minutes than anyone else on the team this past season. There's no way that he'll lose his starting spot midway through his senior season. His playing time may decrease, but that will likely be true for all of the starters since OSU will actually have a bench next year.

bulldog8

krambman wrote:
thedynasty1998 wrote: Start of season lineup:
1 - Lighty
2 - Buford
3 - Diebler
4 - Sullinger
5 - Lauderdale

End of season lineup:
1 - Craft
2 - Buford
3 - Lighty
4 - Thomas
5 - Sullinger
There's no way that Deibler doesn't start the whole season. You may not like Jon Deibler, but coach Matta obviously does. The guy was first off the bench his freshman year, started the last two years, and he played more minutes than anyone else on the team this past season. There's no way that he'll lose his starting spot midway through his senior season. His playing time may decrease, but that will likely be true for all of the starters since OSU will actually have a bench next year.

Are you basing your opinion that Coach Matta likes Diebler based on how much he played this season or do you personally know that Matta really likes Diebler? I'd like to think that the only reason Diebler played the minutes he did this season was because there really wasn't anyone better on the bench that deserved the minutes. I like Diebler's abilities from beyond the arc, but personally, I think Matta will like a few of these incoming freshmen a bit more than Diebler because of the all-around game they will bring to the table every night. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say Diebler's position in the starting lineup will be safe because "Matta likes him." Jon was favored this year because the starting five was all that OSU had. That view might change immensely come next season.

se-alum

This thread had some good discussion on what OSU does next year.

http://www.ohiochatter.com/Thread-Ohio-State-2010-2011-Question?highlight=Ohio+State

Ankle Breaker

I went to the Ohio - Ky all star game this evening and saw a couple of OSU recruits, Craft and Siebert. Both will be assets to the program, for sure. I have only missed 3 or 4 of these Ohio-Ky games in the past 19 years.

I say Craft will play a lot at PG next year, if not start. You talk about a kid who gets the ball to the right player at the exact time he needs to get it, well, it's Craft. He is one of those rare kids who makes everyone around him better. Anyone would love to be this kid's teammate. And a very hard-nosed defender. An uncanny understanding of the game and how it is supposed to be played. He rarely shot the ball but he didn't need to. He still controlled the game.

devil1197

Just finished watching the USA vs. World basketball game at the Nike Hoop Summit.

Sullinger should start for OSU next year at the START of the next season imo.

thedynasty1998

Sullinger starts from Day 1. He's just too good, and you don't bring in a top 3 recruit in the country and not start him.

I don't really understand why people think Diebler will start "becasue he started the last two years and this is his senior season". Will he start? He very well might. Maybe it's Buford who ends up coming off the bench, or Lighty. But Matta is in the business of winning basketball games. If he thinks his team is better with Thomas starting instead of Diebler, that's what will happen.

I used this example on the other thread, but look at how Jamar Butler was moved off the ball when Conley came in. Matta will do what he thinks is best for his team and plays his best available.

Plus, I think Diebler would be good off the bench because he can provide a spark.

centralbucksfan

I honestly could care less. I trust Matta will put OSU in the best possible situation for the team. And, starting is highly overrated unless your team is completely dead coming out of the lockeroom. Its who finishes the game is important. And I think we could see many different kinds of lineups depending on who OSU is playing/matchup wise.
Another determing factor is going to be DEFENSIVELY. Everyone looks at what these guys can do on offense. But they have to be able to play defense. Thats not always the case with some frosh.
OSU was actually pretty good team defensively overall this past year. Whoever is on the floor, better be able to play on that end of the floor, or they won't see the floor.
All one needs to do is look at D. Cook and Mullens if you think being a top recruit means auto time on the floor. It doesn't.

But don't discount ONE thing....seniors and experience. Matta, like any coach, is going to ride them into the sunset one way or the other. YOu can like it, dislike it...but there is A LOT to be said for it. Its called trust and knowing what your getting. Matta will take his chances, win or lose, with guys who have been there, and done that.

lhslep134

centralbucksfan wrote: But don't discount ONE thing....seniors and experience. Matta, like any coach, is going to ride them into the sunset one way or the other. YOu can like it, dislike it...but there is A LOT to be said for it. Its called trust and knowing what your getting. Matta will take his chances, win or lose, with guys who have been there, and done that.

THIS

krambman

bulldog8 wrote: Are you basing your opinion that Coach Matta likes Diebler based on how much he played this season or do you personally know that Matta really likes Diebler? I'd like to think that the only reason Diebler played the minutes he did this season was because there really wasn't anyone better on the bench that deserved the minutes. I like Diebler's abilities from beyond the arc, but personally, I think Matta will like a few of these incoming freshmen a bit more than Diebler because of the all-around game they will bring to the table every night. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say Diebler's position in the starting lineup will be safe because "Matta likes him." Jon was favored this year because the starting five was all that OSU had. That view might change immensely come next season.

I'm basing it on how much he played last season, I have no inside information. I think that you're points are valid, except that other (better) players did play less minutes. Yes, sometimes players went to the bench for periods because of foul trouble (and Deibler is rarely in foul trouble), but also guys like Turner, Lighty, and Buford were given breaks and Simmons and Hill would occasionally come in for a few minutes at a time to give these guys some rest. Deibler never got these breaks. Perhaps his conditioning is better and he doesn't need as many breaks, or maybe he keeps him emotions better in check and doesn't need break for those reasons, I'm not sure. All I know is that Deibler saw less bench time than anyone else on the team this year for whatever reason. I think it's a reasonable assumption that if Matter was willing to leave him out there 39+ minutes a game every game, while playing Turner, Lighty, and/or Buford only 35-38 minutes a game that there was a reason for it.

Ankle Breaker wrote: I say Craft will play a lot at PG next year, if not start. You talk about a kid who gets the ball to the right player at the exact time he needs to get it, well, it's Craft. He is one of those rare kids who makes everyone around him better. Anyone would love to be this kid's teammate. And a very hard-nosed defender. An uncanny understanding of the game and how it is supposed to be played. He rarely shot the ball but he didn't need to. He still controlled the game.

Just like a freshman QB who starts, I'm always nervous when a freshman starts at point guard. However, since there will be a lot of talent around him and more importantly senior leadership, I think that he'll have freedom to make mistakes and time to learn and grow. Also, with Sullinger, we will have more of an inside presence which will open things up for the PG. I think that he won't need to score much since there will be plenty of scoring on the floor that if he can manage things and get the ball to the right people, he and this team will do very well. Also, Mick Conley proved a few years ago that a freshman PG can lead a team, and he really improved and grew into his own as the season progressed.

CinciX12

I've never seen Craft play. I'm going to judge solely based on where he went to high school and the quality of basketball typically in that area.

Someone please enlighten me as to why he won't be another Jon Diebler that everyone gets pissed at for not going 20/10/10?

mallymal614

I wouldn't be shocked if Lauderdale and Sullinger both start. What I mean is that too many people look at offense. Sullinger was a man among boys in high school and had his way against just about everyone who guarded him, but I still wonder about him on the defensive end. Not that he ever got abused on defense, but he never really been challenged. At only 6'8 playing against a taller athletic guys could cause him some problems. Lauderdale had his ups and downs, but he did do adequate on defense this past year. If Lauderdale goes to the bench, who can guards the post? Unless Matta goes with a philosophy to out score teams. If both starts, OSU can have best of both worlds. A player who can score down low and someone who can defend in the paint.

Ankle Breaker

CinciX12 wrote: I've never seen Craft play. I'm going to judge solely based on where he went to high school and the quality of basketball typically in that area.

Someone please enlighten me as to why he won't be another Jon Diebler that everyone gets pissed at for not going 20/10/10?

I see your point about where Craft went to high school and had the same concern before last night. I no longer have that concern as he played against a far higher level of competition in the Ohio - Ky game than he did in a typical high school game. Most players had signed with someone at some level of collegiate hoops, several D1. IMO, had a bigger impact on the game than anyone on either team. I thought he controlled the game and, although Ohio won the game by 8 points, they probably outscored Ky by about 20-25 when Craft was on the floor. He just has a knack for getting the ball into the hands of his teammates and the right time.

And where CBF mentioned the importance of defense, Craft is up in your junk 24/7/365. He will not be a liability defensively.

centralbucksfan

CinciX12 wrote: I've never seen Craft play. I'm going to judge solely based on where he went to high school and the quality of basketball typically in that area.

Someone please enlighten me as to why he won't be another Jon Diebler that everyone gets pissed at for not going 20/10/10?

Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Who knows at this stage. Personally, I am not nor been pissed at Deibler. Guy shot 42% from 3 and fit in perfectly for what OSU wanted to do last season. Like any player, he didn't play perfect every game like some thought he should.

As for Craft..the guy has been playing with Sullinger, Payne(MSU bound), and other big time D1 recruits the past few seasons on AAU team. He has played and competed with other top recruits around the country and did quite well. He had actually verbal to Tenn/Pearl prior to changing to OSU. I'd say Pearl has a pretty good eye for talent in guards. As mentioned above, Craft is a VERY good defender. He may not score a lot, but he won't need to with what OSU has coming back, and what they have coming in. I think he will fit in just fine.

devil1197

CinciX12 wrote: I've never seen Craft play. I'm going to judge solely based on where he went to high school and the quality of basketball typically in that area.

Someone please enlighten me as to why he won't be another Jon Diebler that everyone gets pissed at for not going 20/10/10?

Craft is going to be a solid PG for OSU.

He has played against the best recruits in the nation and has performed well. He led his AAU team at PG to a couple titles which led Pearl to jump on him early after watching some of the AAU tournament. Offered him a scholarship but Matta was able to get him to Columbus.

Big Gain

krambman wrote:
bulldog8 wrote: Are you basing your opinion that Coach Matta likes Diebler based on how much he played this season or do you personally know that Matta really likes Diebler? I'd like to think that the only reason Diebler played the minutes he did this season was because there really wasn't anyone better on the bench that deserved the minutes. I like Diebler's abilities from beyond the arc, but personally, I think Matta will like a few of these incoming freshmen a bit more than Diebler because of the all-around game they will bring to the table every night. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say Diebler's position in the starting lineup will be safe because "Matta likes him." Jon was favored this year because the starting five was all that OSU had. That view might change immensely come next season.
I'm basing it on how much he played last season, I have no inside information. I think that you're points are valid, except that other (better) players did play less minutes. Yes, sometimes players went to the bench for periods because of foul trouble (and Deibler is rarely in foul trouble), but also guys like Turner, Lighty, and Buford were given breaks and Simmons and Hill would occasionally come in for a few minutes at a time to give these guys some rest. Deibler never got these breaks. Perhaps his conditioning is better and he doesn't need as many breaks, or maybe he keeps him emotions better in check and doesn't need break for those reasons, I'm not sure. All I know is that Deibler saw less bench time than anyone else on the team this year for whatever reason. I think it's a reasonable assumption that if Matter was willing to leave him out there 39+ minutes a game every game, while playing Turner, Lighty, and/or Buford only 35-38 minutes a game that there was a reason for it.

Ankle Breaker wrote: I say Craft will play a lot at PG next year, if not start. You talk about a kid who gets the ball to the right player at the exact time he needs to get it, well, it's Craft. He is one of those rare kids who makes everyone around him better. Anyone would love to be this kid's teammate. And a very hard-nosed defender. An uncanny understanding of the game and how it is supposed to be played. He rarely shot the ball but he didn't need to. He still controlled the game.
Just like a freshman QB who starts, I'm always nervous when a freshman starts at point guard. However, since there will be a lot of talent around him and more importantly senior leadership, I think that he'll have freedom to make mistakes and time to learn and grow. Also, with Sullinger, we will have more of an inside presence which will open things up for the PG. I think that he won't need to score much since there will be plenty of scoring on the floor that if he can manage things and get the ball to the right people, he and this team will do very well. Also, Mick Conley proved a few years ago that a freshman PG can lead a team, and he really improved and grew into his own as the season progressed.

Conley was a 5 Star, Craft is a 3 Star. Conley was the #3 rated PG in his class, Craft is the #25 rated PG in his class. PLEASE DO NOT compare the two.

Ankle Breaker

Big Gain

I didn't compare the two. Read closer.

vball10set

devil1197 wrote: End of the season

Craft
Buford
Diebler
Lighty
Sullinger

Thomas and Lauderdale first two off the bench.

this...and anyone who doesn't think Diebler won't be starting at the end of the season is delusional--Matta is loyal to a fault....

thedynasty1998

Obviously no one knows who the starters will be. And like CBF said before, it's not who starts the game, it's who finishes.

But looking at things logically, I think you have to assume that Sulliner is a starter and in all likelihood, Craft will as well. That leaves the space for Diebler, Lighy and Buford. However, I think Thomas becomes a really good player and he might work himself into the starting lineup.

as for Matta's loyalty, his job is to win games. I mentioned before that he took the ball out of Jamar Butler's hands for a freshman. Also, he had Ron Lewis coming off the bench as a senior who was certainly one of OSU's top 5 players, and one could make that argument for Dequan Cook as well. So, I don't think it's crazy to think that one of the seniors comes off the bench, but also I could see where a Thomas is used as that spark off the bench and might finish games.

Luckily for Matta, he'll be able to play a variety of guys throughout a game next year and can play his top 5 in that specific game down the stretch, instead of saying, these are my 5 and that's how it is.

RiverRat13

1 - Lighty
2 - Diebler
3 - Buford
4 - Sullinger
5 - Lauderdale

vball10set

I know what his job is, but you're right--anything is possible...except for Diebler coming off the bench-JMO

thedynasty1998

vball10set wrote: anything is possible...except for Diebler coming off the bench-JMO

I'm not saying you are wrong, but what makes you so certain? Let's just pretend that Thomas is an absolute stud, and Matta does decide to start 3 freshman, or even keep Lauderdale in the starting lineup alongside Sullinger, who do you put on the bench?

I could see an argument for any of the three. I think each could really provide a spark off the bench and I really don't think Diebler or Lighty would have a problem coming off the bench as they seem like the ultimate team players.

mallymal614

Matta usually plays the best guys. I don't see where this loyalty talk comes from. When Diebler struggled as a freshman, he was replaced in the starting lineup by Evan Turner. B.J Mullens was an original starter only for Lauderdale to take his spot. So Thad may start the season with the same starters from a year ago but if they don't produce, look for one of the new guys to enter the starting lineup.

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