National Championship: Duke vs. Butler

• Ghmothwdwhso

  Non wrote: Duke should win but I think it could be a mistake to just go by these two semifinals games.
  
  Butler only shot 31 percent and had to grind it out.
  
  Duke hit everything.
  
  If that's how they both go Monday Duke will kill 'em but Butler is capable of shooting better and defending better than WVU on the outside.

  Dude knows what he's talking about.
• Big Red Monster

  If Butler has another 10 minute stretch with 0 points, Duke will beat them by 40.
  
  I thought it was real classy of Duke to be shooting 3's up 18 points late in the 2nd half.
  
  I really hope Butler takes them to school.
• 77Legend

  

  Duke by 13
• killer_ewok

  

  Matt Howard has got to stay out of foul trouble. That's been a problem for him the last few games and they can't afford it Monday night.
• RiverRat13

  And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen.
• SportsAndLady

  

  FairwoodKing wrote:They have nothing to lose.

  Lol seriously??
  
  You can say this in the 1st round to a team that is the big underdog...but not in a national championship game lol cuz i mean...they have a national championship to lose...
• royal_k

  

  Butler will play much better defense than WV. Just ask MSU. I don't see Duke shooting like they ndid last night. That being said, Duke still has to be the favorite. But I'll be pulling for Butler big time.
• mtrulz

  My signature says everything.
• UA5straightin2008

  

  mtrulz wrote: My signature says everything.

  i knew i saw the bandwagon driving through WCH today.....
• eersandbeers

  I know this doesn't go here, but I need to get rid of them.
  
  I have two tickets for the game in section 446 I'm trying to get rid of. I'm not trying to make a profit or anything on these. You can pick them up from a local ticket dealer in Indy before the game. Just send me a PM if you are interested.
• swamisez

  

  how is it that before every Duke game opponents keep saying things regarding the quality of defense Duke is about to play, and how Duke will struggle.
  
  They outlast Purdue and their defense, then posters talk of how Baylor's defense will be too tough.
  Then they hang on versus Baylor and it turns into a story of how the best defense in the nation, the one who shut down Kentucky, will lock down the Devils.
  Now Butler is in discussion, and suddenly Duke hasn't seen a defense quite like this before.
  
  I would take Georgia Tech's, FSU's, Carolina's, and probably Virginia Tech's defense over Butler.
  Butler is great defensively, don't get me wrong. However statistically they are lower than Purdue, Baylor, Florida State, and Georgia Tech (all teams Duke beat).
• mattinctown

  swamisez wrote: how is it that before every Duke game opponents keep saying things regarding the quality of defense Duke is about to play, and how Duke will struggle.
  
  They outlast Purdue and their defense, then posters talk of how Baylor's defense will be too tough.
  Then they hang on versus Baylor and it turns into a story of how the best defense in the nation, the one who shut down Kentucky, will lock down the Devils.
  Now Butler is in discussion, and suddenly Duke hasn't seen a defense quite like this before.
  
  I would take Georgia Tech's, FSU's, Carolina's, and probably Virginia Tech's defense over Butler.
  Butler is great defensively, don't get me wrong. However statistically they are lower than Purdue, Baylor, Florida State, and Georgia Tech (all teams Duke beat).

  
  Because no one wants to see Duke win another title If Duke wins tomorrow night in a close game, how many people will post comments about the officials, etc...? If Duke blows out Butler, we'll get the "the field was weak this year" complaint. God forbid Howard doesn't play, there's an excuse right there if Duke wins. Is Butler a very good defensive team? Yes. Are they something Duke hasn't seen before? No.
• Non

  

  I hope Howard is able to play.
  
  I'm not really going for anyone just want to see a good game and both teams with their best.
  
  Zoubek is playing outstanding. Howard always gives great effort and he has some crafty skills if he can stay on the floor long enough.
• Prescott

  we'll get the "the field was weak this year" complaint.

  It isn't complaint, nor is it a knock on Duke. It is a fact that this season was a down season. Most people agree on that.
• killer_ewok

  

  RiverRat13 wrote: And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen.

  Is anybody else buying the "Butler as David to Duke's Goliath" angle?
  
  I can see Butler as David. Except they're David with a gun instead of a slingshot. They're not your average "David."
  
  On a side note.....it's the 25 year anniversary of #8 seed Villanova over #1 seed and 10-point title game favorite Georgetown. Butler is definitely a more "likely" contender as they're a #5 seed who was ranked fairly high during the season but name-wise.......they're a "David" or a "Cinderella." They're without a doubt the underdog. This Duke team isn't a dominating/intimidating squad like that G'town team with Ewing and company was but they're a #1 seed and have all of that tradition and one of the all-time greats as their coach. The last line that I saw.....Duke was a 7-point favorite. I don't hate Duke or Coach K.....but I'm rooting for "the little guy." A Butler win would be pretty historic IMO. Not from a seeding standpoint but from a mid-major vs. one of the all-time great programs angle.
  
  I think this makes for a very compelling game.
• Non

  

  If you follow college basketball regularly it's a stretch to label this as a "David vs. Goliath" theme.
  
  But it's easy to use that angle to trick a casual viewer into thinking that Butler is a bigger cinderella story than they actually are.
  
  Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just an attempt to attract more of an audience, which wouldn't be the junkies that have watched 300 games over the past few weeks but the people who may need that extra reason to stay up until 9:22 or whatever on a Monday night and watch the championship game.
• killer_ewok

  

  Non wrote: If you follow college basketball regularly it's a stretch to label this as a "David vs. Goliath" theme.
  
  But it's easy to use that angle to trick a casual viewer into thinking that Butler is a bigger cinderella story than they actually are.
  
  Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just an attempt to attract more of an audience, which wouldn't be the junkies that have watched 300 games over the past few weeks but the people who may need that extra reason to stay up until 9:22 or whatever on a Monday night and watch the championship game.

  I can only speak for myself when I say I do follow it regularly. It's definitely not George Mason from a few years ago or even '85 'Nova, but name-wise.......it is David vs. Goliath. Butler has been a solid program on and off recently but they're a mid-major and this is Duke we're talking about. Can a Horizon league team actually win the national championship? Against the big, bad Blue Devils and Coach K nonetheless? I follow college hoops closely....not as much as Azubuike24 but pretty darn closely. I think it's an extremely compelling matchup because it's a tradition-laden "big dog" program vs, well.....Butler. Hardcore and casual fans alike should find this interesting IMO. Who doesn't love an underdog? And as hated as Duke is.....that just adds to it. Sure, Butler is no slouch. In fact, they're a very good team and a solid program. However, all that considered......I still think that it has a David vs. Goliath feel to it. And frankly.....I think it's warranted to an extent and in a certain context.
• Ironman92

  

  Duke never has all 3 guys being great....last game was fluke that made me very happy. Odds are strong Duke will struggle to slightly below average shooting and Butler will be slightly better......I'm guessing a Duke player or two has severe foul trouble much of the game.
  
  This has shaped up to be Cinderella's year.....Butler deserves to be there and Duke will struggle. I see Butler having someone unusual catch fire and win the game for the Bulldogs.
• Non

  

  killer_ewok wrote: I can only speak for myself when I say I do follow it regularly. It's definitely not George Mason from a few years ago or even '85 'Nova, but name-wise.......it is David vs. Goliath. Butler has been a solid program on and off recently but they're a mid-major and this is Duke we're talking about. Can a Horizon league team actually win the national championship? Against the big, bad Blue Devils and Coach K nonetheless? I follow college hoops closely....not as much as Azubuike24 but pretty darn closely. I think it's an extremely compelling matchup because it's a tradition-laden "big dog" program vs, well.....Butler. Hardcore and casual fans alike should find this interesting IMO. Who doesn't love an underdog? And as hated as Duke is.....that just adds to it. Sure, Butler is no slouch. In fact, they're a very good team and a solid program. However, all that considered......I still think that it has a David vs. Goliath feel to it. And frankly.....I think it's warranted to an extent and in a certain context.

  Well when I say "people who watch regularly" that's certainly a lot of the posters on here.
  
  I agree with a lot of that. Namewise if you just said Butler vs. Duke, Horizon League vs. ACC, it's extremely rare.
  
  But I just think if we all were honest about it, Butler was a Top 15 team to begin the year. They were looked at as a team that could make a strong tournament run at the beginning of the season. They were on a long winning streak entering the tournament, earned a respectable No. 5 seed and a lot of experts had them as a potential Elite 8 or Final Four team. We've also been in an era of parity where the George Masons, Northern Iowas, Cornells have been taking down the Giants quite a bit.
  
  For this game it's better not to think about all that and just sell it as another Hoosiers story.
• ironman02

  Ironman92 wrote: Duke never has all 3 guys being great....last game was fluke that made me very happy. Odds are strong Duke will struggle to slightly below average shooting and Butler will be slightly better......I'm guessing a Duke player or two has severe foul trouble much of the game.
  
  This has shaped up to be Cinderella's year.....Butler deserves to be there and Duke will struggle. I see Butler having someone unusual catch fire and win the game for the Bulldogs.

  I've had just about enough of this! Just stop right now, 92. On second thought, I guess it doesn't even matter now that you've made this post. Duke is a sure thing.
• killer_ewok

  

  Non wrote:

  killer_ewok wrote: I can only speak for myself when I say I do follow it regularly. It's definitely not George Mason from a few years ago or even '85 'Nova, but name-wise.......it is David vs. Goliath. Butler has been a solid program on and off recently but they're a mid-major and this is Duke we're talking about. Can a Horizon league team actually win the national championship? Against the big, bad Blue Devils and Coach K nonetheless? I follow college hoops closely....not as much as Azubuike24 but pretty darn closely. I think it's an extremely compelling matchup because it's a tradition-laden "big dog" program vs, well.....Butler. Hardcore and casual fans alike should find this interesting IMO. Who doesn't love an underdog? And as hated as Duke is.....that just adds to it. Sure, Butler is no slouch. In fact, they're a very good team and a solid program. However, all that considered......I still think that it has a David vs. Goliath feel to it. And frankly.....I think it's warranted to an extent and in a certain context.

  Well when I say "people who watch regularly" that's certainly a lot of the posters on here.
  
  I agree with a lot of that. Namewise if you just said Butler vs. Duke, Horizon League vs. ACC, it's extremely rare.
  
  But I just think if we all were honest about it, Butler was a Top 15 team to begin the year. They were looked at as a team that could make a strong tournament run at the beginning of the season. They were on a long winning streak entering the tournament, earned a respectable No. 5 seed and a lot of experts had them as a potential Elite 8 or Final Four team. We've also been in an era of parity where the George Masons, Northern Iowas, Cornells have been taking down the Giants quite a bit.
  
  For this game it's better not to think about all that and just sell it as another Hoosiers story.

  You make some good points that I don't disagree with. Although there were quite a few experts picking UTEP to beat Butler in the 1st round. It is an era of parity so mid-majors and lesser name programs making runs isn't that out of the ordinary. That being said, making a nice run and playing for the national championship are two very different things IMO. They're on the cusp of history here. And they've got to go through Duke to do it. Very intriguing.
  
  I couldn't agree more with your last sentence.
• Ironman92

  

  You really have to believe 02.
  
  The year of the Cinderella....a little bit Villanova in 85 and Seton Hall almost in 89. Think about it...Butler on the tough side of the bracket many believed. Toughest team Kansas......knocked off, next toughest team Syracuse...injury...see ya...OSU, Tenn, Xavier, Maryland....not quite having things their way.....Kansas St..eh.....Mich St...everything set up for them again...and then Lucas goes down.....Butler even got a favorable call at the end versus Izzo.
  
  Yeah, I know....thing fell nice for Duke also...but after 5 very good games...rememeber this is the Duke program that hasn't avoided the upset well in the tourney for a good while....they can't possibly play any better and injuries to others have helped them along the way.
  
  A pretty even matchup and Butler is virtually at home...too much Hoosiers, Duke over UNLV in 1991 stuff karming up. This is all aligned for Butler.
• ironman02

  I see what you mean, 92. I hate to say that Butler doesn't have a chance because they're playing well and they have beaten some good teams, but I honestly just don't see them hanging with Duke at all. I really hope I'm wrong, but I see Duke winning the title easily. Butler is very good defensively, but I think they're going to get killed on the boards. Zoubek, Thomas, and others are going to give Duke numerous second chances if they happen to miss some shots (which, they aren't doing much right now). Howard has been pretty awful all tournament and has been in foul trouble non-stop...that won't change tomorrow night, unfortunately. Heyward and Mack might keep the Bulldogs in the game if they're really hot, but Duke is one of the best defensive teams in the country, and Butler struggles to score against even average defensive teams. Yeah, Butler is playing at home and they have the whole underdog thing going for them, but it's midnight for Cinderella.
  
  And I'm going to hate every single second of it, but I will force myself to watch just so I can remember how it feels. I've been fortunate the last few years with Carolina's success, but I've paid for it with my worst basketball nightmare this year. I'll suck it up and suffer through Duke's coronation tomorrow just so future success will feel that much sweeter. I just hope I don't have to wait too long for Carolina to be back on top. I suppose I can bear tomorrow night's title, but if Duke repeats next year, I might have to stop watching basketball, haha.
• Ironman92

  

  I give Butler FAR more chance this year than Mich St last year.
  
  I'll watch portions of the game.
• ironman02

  Ironman92 wrote: I give Butler FAR more chance this year than Mich St last year.
  

  Well, of course. That Carolina team was a juggernaut. Far better than this Duke team.