Small Ball: A Lost Art?

• darbypitcher22

  

  Seems like so many coaches nowadays have forgotten how to bunt and move runners and play for a big inning. has small ball become a lost art? When I was in HS it seemed like that was all we did; get the lead off guy on, you're bunting, get 1st and 2nd with nobody out, you're definately bunting, but I loved it that way; we frustrated a lot of people winning 21 games that way.
• joebaseball

  

  I love playing/teaching/coaching small ball but you have to know what the strength of your team is and if it fits your team. Some teams are ideal for small ball others are not.
• catchr22

  Joe-would you not agree that the teams that are not suited for it have not had good instruction during early participation. That being said, would you also agree that there are not a lot of coaches willing to pay the attention needed to make their teams capable of "swinging both ways"? I don't think it is a lost art but there are fewer artists!!!
• yeahgoahead

  

  I like watching small ball when it's done well. I agree with Joe some teams are better suited for it and other aren't. I also agree with catch that it's not coached enough or well enough. During the season\playoffs even a team that isn't built for small ball needs to use it. I've seen too many times it that situation a team looking awful trying to do it.
• Quint

  

  I hate small ball. . . I was a power hitter though. If you have a bad hitting team. . . small ball is the way to go. Good hitting teams should save small ball for practice and the 7th inning when they need a guy in scoring position for the middle of the lineup. I like what joebaseball said. If small ball is a players strength, then utilize it.
• catchr22

  if you can hit with that thing in your hand, you can play on my team!!!
• darbypitcher22

  

  I don't think enough people work on it now a days... hardly anybody bunts in practice anymore, and when they do nobody takes that period seriously, then they wonder why they can't execute late in games
• joebaseball

  

  catchr22 wrote: Joe-would you not agree that the teams that are not suited for it have not had good instruction during early participation. That being said, would you also agree that there are not a lot of coaches willing to pay the attention needed to make their teams capable of "swinging both ways"? I don't think it is a lost art but there are fewer artists!!!

  I agree that the lack of small ball is partially coaching at early levels but not all. Some teams are full of big slow guys that drop bombs, it is not smart to try to make these guys bunt runners over in the first inning of every game, let them do what they do best.
  
  Some HS coaches don't stress small ball and therefore their teams are unable to execute it. When I throw BP there are at least two bunts in each round. If you don't get your bunts down I start taking away some of your cuts until you do get them down.
  
  That being said, small ball is a great equalizer for an overmatched team. If you can execute situational baseball you can maximize the base runners you do have and can sometimes compete with a much more talented team. I always told my teams if we were close at the end of the game small ball was going to win it for us. (more times than not it did)
• joebaseball

  

  darbypitcher22 wrote: I don't think enough people work on it now a days... hardly anybody bunts in practice anymore, and when they do nobody takes that period seriously, then they wonder why they can't execute late in games

  I've found the key is to make it competitive in practice. We used to do all kinds of different things, bunting scrimmages where the losing team has extra conditioning or guy that gets the most consecutive bunts down gets an extra round of BP each day until someone gets more bunts down.
• darbypitcher22

  

  ^^^^
  
  this is a great idea, something I might suggest to our head coach. We stress bunting everyday and being good at it but nobody takes it seriously, and this year we don't have a lineup of bashers like we've had in the past.
• dubnine

  small ball is so important, darby i remember playing/watching you guys in high school, and i was impressed as both your team and mine were very fundamentally focused teams, where anyone and everyone bunted. for instance, i hit 5th in the lineup my junior year, and 4th my senior year, definately had plenty of sac bunts
• catchr22

  dub--you raise an interesting point. Most coaches will avoid small ball in the middle of the lineup. However, I think the game situation should dictate the action called for in the game!!!
• dubnine

  totally agree catch, obviously most of the time i was given the green light to hit, but there were times when he wanted the bunt, and he had coached our team that every player WILL get the bunt down
• darbypitcher22

  

  dubnine,
  
  hit 4th my Junior year and ended with only 13 RBI. most of the time when I had a chance to drive somebody in early in the inning I was bunting. You either bunted, or you weren't playing. I can only remember 1 or 2 times where I didn't get the job done and I was pissed both times it happened.
• yeahgoahead

  

  Catch do you remember the game against Berlin Hiland in 2008? I think NC missed a great chance to exicute some small ball in the 5th inning and chose to have the batter swing away.
• catchr22

  Coaching is a bastion for second-guessing. However, at the time, which I can't recall exactly, the hitter may have been on a streak, the type of pitcher may have been one who the hitter handled. Because I was scouting in Lorain, I am having difficulty remembering who was involved. Nevertheless, Coach C has a record that speaks for itself and I would believe there may have been other things occur that put them in that position prior to that particular at bat.
• yeahgoahead

  

  When Adam came up to bat in the 5th inning, I was telling myself here comes the double squeeze. Derek Adam is a heck of a bunter, Mark Elwell was on second and NC wasn't coming close to the Berlin Hiland pitcher by this time. NC touched him up in the first 2 innings but as the game went on he got stronger.
  
  NC under this coaching staff uses small ball. They don't live and die with it but they seem to use it. This was just one time I was shocked they didn't.
• catchr22

  yeah--After the fact, I am sure Coach C may have had second thoughts. However, I am not privy to that knowledge. How many outs were there, who was coming up next, who was coaching third, was there a missed sign? Lots of things I do not know. Tough to just lay out an opinion without knowing all the details.
• yeahgoahead

  

  I don't know about Coach C....never asked him. There was 1 out, Adam was the # 8 batter so who ever was 9th or they pinched hit for him I don't remember would of been next up. Mummy was coaching 3rd and I did ask him about it. He said he thought about it. I'm not busting on you or the coaching staff. Just something I remember mostly because I expected them to do it because they usually do. Coach C teams in all of the years I've watched them can and do play small ball not all of the time but at the right times.
• catchr22

  I know you are not busting but I am just not aware of all the details to be able to comment. Like Danny says, the thought was there, so I would have to go with that.

  yeahgoahead wrote: I don't know about Coach C....never asked him. There was 1 out, Adam was the # 8 batter so who ever was 9th or they pinched hit for him I don't remember would of been next up. Mummy was coaching 3rd and I did ask him about it. He said he thought about it. I'm not busting on you or the coaching staff. Just something I remember mostly because I expected them to do it because they usually do. Coach C teams in all of the years I've watched them can and do play small ball not all of the time but at the right times.

• catchr22

  yeah--the only question I have about the scenario is that you said Elwell was on second. Since he was a lead-off hitter, this doesn't make sense to me!! This would certainly have a bearing on the decision!!
• dubnine

  darbypitcher22 wrote: dubnine,
  
  hit 4th my Junior year and ended with only 13 RBI. most of the time when I had a chance to drive somebody in early in the inning I was bunting. You either bunted, or you weren't playing. I can only remember 1 or 2 times where I didn't get the job done and I was pissed both times it happened.

  exactly! Players now need to be more like you. On some teams I see kids who act like they could care less that they didnt get the bunt down. I cant stand that.
• yeahgoahead

  

  catchr22 wrote: yeah--the only question I have about the scenario is that you said Elwell was on second. Since he was a lead-off hitter, this doesn't make sense to me!! This would certainly have a bearing on the decision!!

  After reading this. I believe Adam was on 3rd.
• darbypitcher22

  

  dubnine,
  
  nobody cares about it anymore. It used to be something that even if you couldn't hit that well but you could handle the bat in those key situations to get one down, might just help you make a ballclub.
• dubnine

  yep, its a sad thing