Gas Prices?
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Lovejoy1984Did they jump in your neck of the woods?
Here in Zanesville went from 2.27 to 2.65 overnight.:@ -
j_crazyJESUS!
I went from 2.59 to 2.70 here.
Haven't been paying too much attention but this might be in response to last weeks hurricane. -
newarkcatholicfanOil prices pushed higher for a second straight day on Tuesday even though the dollar strengthened and fresh economic data gave mixed signals on whether demand for oil will increase.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-pushes-higher-for-second-apf-74820928.html?x=0 -
Scarlet_BuckeyeYup, they jumped $.30 a gal after about 9:00 a.m. this morning. Ridiculous!
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Cleveland BuckU.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 17 Nov 2009 at 08:21:08 PM GMT is:
The estimated population of the United States is 307,304,972
so each citizen's share of this debt is $39,070.65. -
capninsanoIt's been 2.65-2.75 here in Pittsburgh for the past month or so...not sure what it is now. I'll have to look on my way home.
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Swamp FoxI bought gas the other day for $2.21 up here in the great Northwest, but haven't had occasion to check prices today. I have to get my tags today, so I will soon see whether the gas went up or not. I hope not! (I get gas at Kroger's and use the card discount.)
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4cards...paid 2.33 this AM in the Kent, OH area.
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Nate$2.39 next door.
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believerIt's been $2.70 here in State College, PA for about 2 weeks not. If you're paying less than that in Ohio feel fortunate.
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newarkcatholicfanThe places I pssed today were between 2.56 and 2.66.
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LJCleveland Buck wrote: U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 17 Nov 2009 at 08:21:08 PM GMT is:
The estimated population of the United States is 307,304,972
so each citizen's share of this debt is $39,070.65.
The hell does that have to do with anything? -
Cleveland BuckWell, how much would oil (and therefore gas) cost if the dollar hadn't lost 40% of its value since 2002? Does our debt have an impact on the value of the dollar? In a recession, with weak demand, should oil be $80/bbl?
Also, I'm not talking about the overnight price jump. I'm talking about oil/gas prices in general. -
LJ
I really don't want to go deep into it, but oil is a commodity. Commodities increase in value over time, as they should.Cleveland Buck wrote: Well, how much would oil (and therefore gas) cost if the dollar hadn't lost 40% of its value since 2002? Does our debt have an impact on the value of the dollar? In a recession, with weak demand, should oil be $80/bbl?
Also, I'm not talking about the overnight price jump. I'm talking about oil/gas prices in general.
In short answer, yes, oil at $80 is reasonable. -
ohiotiger33Higher gas prices show the recovering state of our economy.
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Cleveland Buck
I understand that you are more knowledgeable than I am about the inner workings of the oil industry, but this statement is just wrong. They don't just go up because that is what they are supposed to do. They go up or down based on the market. At our current demand level, $80 oil is insane. The reason it is $80 is because investors are buying oil as opposed to dollars, and because a dollar buys less oil than it should and used to. Oil was around $25/bbl (or like $30/bbl adjusted for inflation) during the last recession in 2000-01, and that wasn't nearly as severe as this recession.LJ wrote:
I really don't want to go deep into it, but oil is a commodity. Commodities increase in value over time, as they should.Cleveland Buck wrote: Well, how much would oil (and therefore gas) cost if the dollar hadn't lost 40% of its value since 2002? Does our debt have an impact on the value of the dollar? In a recession, with weak demand, should oil be $80/bbl?
Also, I'm not talking about the overnight price jump. I'm talking about oil/gas prices in general.
In short answer, yes, oil at $80 is reasonable. -
Cleveland Buck
No, higher demand would be a sign of recovery (albeit not a foolproof one). Demand is not driving the price of oil right now.ohiotiger33 wrote: Higher gas prices show the recovering state of our economy. -
LJ
And it was under inflation by about $15 then. Everyone is just spoiled because oil was anti-inflationary for so long. And that statement is not wrong. Commodities increase in value over time because of the implied value that a commodity has.Cleveland Buck wrote:
I understand that you are more knowledgeable than I am about the inner workings of the oil industry, but this statement is just wrong. They don't just go up because that is what they are supposed to do. They go up or down based on the market. At our current demand level, $80 oil is insane. The reason it is $80 is because investors are buying oil as opposed to dollars, and because a dollar buys less oil than it should and used to. Oil was around $25/bbl (or like $30/bbl adjusted for inflation) during the last recession in 2000-01, and that wasn't nearly as severe as this recession.LJ wrote:
I really don't want to go deep into it, but oil is a commodity. Commodities increase in value over time, as they should.Cleveland Buck wrote: Well, how much would oil (and therefore gas) cost if the dollar hadn't lost 40% of its value since 2002? Does our debt have an impact on the value of the dollar? In a recession, with weak demand, should oil be $80/bbl?
Also, I'm not talking about the overnight price jump. I'm talking about oil/gas prices in general.
In short answer, yes, oil at $80 is reasonable.
And $80 is not insane for the current demand level. $120 would be, but 80 is not. At the demand level of 1930, oil priced in current dollars would be $45. -
LJ
demand never has.Cleveland Buck wrote:
No, higher demand would be a sign of recovery (albeit not a foolproof one). Demand is not driving the price of oil right now.ohiotiger33 wrote: Higher gas prices show the recovering state of our economy.
The commodity market does not work off of supply and demand. I have said this for years. Short term spikes and drops will, but the type of investment vehicle that a commodity provides will not follow your typical supply/demand pricing. -
newarkcatholicfanI remember a time when they who knew so much said it was all about supply and demand and when that was proven to be a lie they would come up with reason after reason and all has been proved to be a lie.
They charge what they want because they can and our government refuses to cut ties with the oil people it’s nothing but a money thing. -
LJ
Huh? The price of oil has always been about speculation pricing. If it was a current market (ie, the oil you bought was refined and sold a few days later) you would have supply and demand pricing. What happens is that the oil is held for months (in a normal market, oil sits waiting to be refined for 46 days, that is after the future contract is executed which is 1 month ahead of time) and it's bought and sold with the hopes of the price going up more. The supply and demand pricing is in the commodities market, not in the consumer market.newarkcatholicfan wrote: I remember a time when they who knew so much said it was all about supply and demand and when that was proven to be a lie they would come up with reason after reason and all has been proved to be a lie.
They charge what they want because they can and our government refuses to cut ties with the oil people it’s nothing but a money thing. -
LJ
It's a slight indicator. That means that speculation is out there that people are going to be buying more gas at some point in the near future.ohiotiger33 wrote: Higher gas prices show the recovering state of our economy. -
Cleveland BuckIt's too late to get into all of this, but I do want to continue this when I have a minute. All I know is, oil is priced in dollars and when a dollar is worth less it buys less oil, raising the price. I know that in '08 when oil was $147 or whatever it was, there were stories everywhere about record demand. Then our economy crashed and oil fell to $40 (not coincidentally at the same time the dollar had a big rally because the rest of the world looked as bad as we did). Obviously supply and demand have an effect on oil prices, even if it is projected demand. Obviously the value of the currency does too.
If oil is reasonably priced now, why was it so underpriced during the last recession? -
LJ
electronic trading and the ease of the commodities market has allowed it to catch up with the other markets, the simplest response to the last question.Cleveland Buck wrote: It's too late to get into all of this, but I do want to continue this when I have a minute. All I know is, oil is priced in dollars and when a dollar is worth less it buys less oil, raising the price. I know that in '08 when oil was $147 or whatever it was, there were stories everywhere about record demand. Then our economy crashed and oil fell to $40 (not coincidentally at the same time the dollar had a big rally because the rest of the world looked as bad as we did). Obviously supply and demand have an effect on oil prices. Obviously the value of the currency does too.
If oil is reasonably priced now, why was it so underpriced during the last recession?
And yes, the value of the dollar on the currency market does dictate if you can buy more or less oil, I didn't dispute that, but that is a market where the supply and demand of the dollar worldwide dictates the exchange rates. We could be running high inflation here, but still have the dollar priced well on the currency exchange. The overall national debt isn't going to change our exchange rates overnight. -
Cleveland Buck
Ok, well it is pretty clear that the dollar is suffering on the currency exchange. The dollar index is down from like 120 in 2002 to 75. And we didn't run up $12 trillion in debt overnight, though I think they are trying to now.And yes, the value of the dollar on the currency market does dictate if you can buy more or less oil, I didn't dispute that, but that is a market where the supply and demand of the dollar worldwide dictates the exchange rates. We could be running high inflation here, but still have the dollar priced well on the currency exchange. The overall national debt isn't going to change our exchange rates overnight.
Like I said, I wasn't even responding to original point about the overnight price jump in gas. I was referring to oil prices in general.