Toyota Accelleration issue not mechanical -> Could be in Electronics

• OneBuckeye

  

  http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/video-smoking-gun-abc-news-expert-recreates-sudden-acceleratio/
  

  Earlier today, ABC News released a report asserting that the cause of Toyota's unintended accelerations issues might not be a faulty accelerator mechanism, but an electronic flaw in the automaker's engine control unit – something that's been suspected, although never confirmed, for some time.
  
  David Gilbert, an automotive technology professor at Souther Illinois University and ABC's primary source for the report, claims to be able to duplicate the effect by short-circuiting one of the controls, which could be caused by moisture, wear or a combination of factors in Toyota vehicles.
  
  Although the report goes into specifics, seeing is believing, and ABC News has done just that, putting Brian Ross behind the wheel as Gilbert trips the switch. The results are rather shocking – particularly since the ECU doesn't record a fault. You can see it for yourself after the jump.
  
  UPDATE: In response to the allegation that an electronic fault is the cause of the unintended acceleration issue, Toyota has released a statement saying that Gilbert talked with the automaker on the March 16 after wiring a Toyota Tundra in a similar manner and causing the acceleration. Make the jump for the release and draw your own conclusions.
  
  
  Tired of Toyota recall news? Try out the recall-free version of Autoblog.
  
  PRESS RELEASE
  
  Toyota's Statement in Regard to ABC News Story: Expert Recreates Sudden Acceleration in Toyota
  
  Toyota spoke with Mr. Gilbert on February 16 in an effort to understand his concerns. During this discussion, Mr. Gilbert explained that he had connected a resistor between the output wires of the two accelerator pedal sensors on a Toyota Tundra. In other words, he had artificially introduced an abnormal connection between two otherwise independent signals coming from the accelerator pedal sensors. Mr. Gilbert advised Toyota that he believed that his intentional misdirection of these signals could cause the vehicle to accelerate unexpectedly.
  
  In response to Mr. Gilbert's claim as communicated to Toyota, Toyota confirmed that what Mr. Gilbert described would not cause unintended acceleration to occur. In fact, under the abnormal condition described last week by Mr. Gilbert, if there is a short with low resistance between the two signals, the electronic throttle control system illuminates the "check engine" light and the vehicle enters into a fail-safe mode of engine idle operation. If there is a short with high resistance, outside the range of "check engine" light illumination, the accelerator pedal continues to be responsive to driver input and the vehicle will return to the idle condition when the foot is taken off of the accelerator pedal. Unintended acceleration would not occur.
  
  After watching the story today on ABC News featuring Mr. Gilbert, Toyota was surprised to learn that Mr. Gilbert appears now to be making a different claim regarding the electronic throttle control system and in a vehicle other than as described to Toyota last week. Although it is difficult to tell from the footage used in the story, Mr. Gilbert appears to be introducing a different external and artificial method to manipulate the throttle. In order to set the record straight, Toyota welcomes the opportunity to evaluate the Toyota Avalon shown in today's story and the method by which Mr. Gilbert allegedly caused the vehicle to accelerate unintentionally. We welcome the attendance of ABC News at any such evaluation of this vehicle and Mr. Gilbert's testing.

  Check out the video at the bottom
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  If it is a faulty throttle control, the cars cpu is supposed to look at where it thinks the range of the TPS should be and judge it against where it's at, and throw the car into fail safe mode if it doesn't match. Toyota still dropped the ball big time no matter how you look at it, and even more so if its electronic issue for not having redundant safeties on it.
  Controls 101 Toyota.. did your EE's fall asleep that day?
• Little Danny

  

  I can summarize my thoughts on the Toyota recall issues in two words: witch hunt.
  
  Frankly, all of this coverage is ridiculous. You would think it is the first time a car manufacturer has ever had to issue a recall. Where are the congressional hearings for the Ford and GM recalls? Just last year Ford had recalled over 4 million cars, which drawfs the number of recalls being made by Toyota. I just read where Federal Prosecutors have opened a criminal investigation into this matter as well. Are you kidding me?
• Emmett Brown

  

  Little Danny wrote: I can summarize my thoughts on the Toyota recall issues in two words: witch hunt.
  
  Frankly, all of this coverage is ridiculous. You would think it is the first time a car manufacturer has ever had to issue a recall. Where are the congressional hearings for the Ford and GM recalls? Just last year Ford had recalled over 4 million cars, which drawfs the number of recalls being made by Toyota. I just read where Federal Prosecutors have opened a criminal investigation into this matter as well. Are you kidding me?

  Toyota is recalling 8.5 million cars.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  Little Danny wrote: I can summarize my thoughts on the Toyota recall issues in two words: witch hunt.
  
  Frankly, all of this coverage is ridiculous. You would think it is the first time a car manufacturer has ever had to issue a recall. Where are the congressional hearings for the Ford and GM recalls? Just last year Ford had recalled over 4 million cars, which drawfs the number of recalls being made by Toyota. I just read where Federal Prosecutors have opened a criminal investigation into this matter as well. Are you kidding me?

  Firstly, it's double what Ford recall was.
  Secondly, Ford's recall was for a cruise control swtich that could short out, heat up, and cause a fire, not something that would cause you to lose control of your accelerator while driving.
  Thirdly, Ford didn't try to ignore/hide the problem to save money while ignoring the fact that you could kill yourself while drving your car.
• power i

  

  My daughter's first brand new car she bought all by herself? 2010 Toyota Corolla.
• OneBuckeye

  

  power i wrote: My daughter's first brand new car she bought all by herself? 2010 Toyota Corolla.

  Whoops
• queencitybuckeye

  ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:
  Thirdly, Ford didn't try to ignore/hide the problem to save money while ignoring the fact that you could kill yourself while drving your car.

  This time. It's not like they didn't travel that road before.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  queencitybuckeye wrote:

  ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:
  Thirdly, Ford didn't try to ignore/hide the problem to save money while ignoring the fact that you could kill yourself while drving your car.

  This time. It's not like they didn't travel that road before.

  When were they investigated before for this?
• LJ

  

  A a friend of mine who used to be a toyota mechanic and now runs his own shop said back when the crash happened with the cop that it was most likely the ECU.
  
  Toyota is being investigated because they have been trying to cover this up with a stupid floor mat thing. If you go on youtube and search you will find people talking about having the acceleration happen to them and the pedal gets "sucked" to the floor. Yeah, floor mats cause that :rolleyes:
• queencitybuckeye

  ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:

  queencitybuckeye wrote:

  ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:
  Thirdly, Ford didn't try to ignore/hide the problem to save money while ignoring the fact that you could kill yourself while drving your car.

  This time. It's not like they didn't travel that road before.

  When were they investigated before for this?

  
  They attempted to cover up the Pinto issues big time.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  queencitybuckeye wrote:

  ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:

  queencitybuckeye wrote:

  ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:
  Thirdly, Ford didn't try to ignore/hide the problem to save money while ignoring the fact that you could kill yourself while drving your car.

  This time. It's not like they didn't travel that road before.

  When were they investigated before for this?

  
  They attempted to cover up the Pinto issues big time.

  
  ah i c. That was way before my time.
• queencitybuckeye

  ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote: ah i c. That was way before my time.

  Me too.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  Toyota US Chief Says No Problems With Electronics
  
  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704188104575082992364231862.html
  

  WSJ Online / Copyright 2009 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved / By Joseph B. White
  
  
  WASHINGTONToyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. sales chief, James Lentz, plans to tell members of a House panel investigating the auto maker's handling of sudden acceleration complaints that the company is "confident that no problems exist with the electronic throttle control system in our vehicles."
  
  Mr. Lentz said Toyota believes that sudden acceleration incidents involving Toyota and Lexus vehicles were caused by improperly placed floor mats and "sticky" accelerator pedals.
  
  The testimony sets up a clash with lawmakers who have said in advance of today's hearing that they believe electronic faults can't be eliminated as a cause for incidents in which Toyota vehicles surged out of control.
  
  In his prepared testimony, released by Toyota ahead of a hearing before the House Energy and Commerce Committee Tuesday morning, Mr. Lentz apologized for the company's failure to move more quickly to address safety problems.
  
  "Put simply, it has taken us too long to come to grips with a rare but serious set of safety issues, despite all of our good faith efforts. The problem has also been compounded by poor communications both within our company and with regulators and consumers," Mr. Lentz is expected to say, according to the prepared testimony.
  
  "We acknowledge these mistakes, we apologize for them and we have learned from them. We now understand that we must think differently when investigating complaints and communicate faster, better and more effectively with our customers and our regulators," Mr. Lentz is expected to say. Mr. Lentz will cite recent actions by Toyota to recall Toyota Prius and other hybrid models and certain Toyota Tacoma pickups to address safety concerns.
  
  Mr. Lentz's testimony indicates that Toyota is prepared to stand by its position that reported sudden acceleration incidents involving its vehicles are linked to two mechanical problems covered by recalls the company has announced. One involves floor mats that can come loose and trap the gas pedal. The other involves accelerators that can become worn and "sticky," or stuck.
  
  Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D., Calif.) and subcommittee chairman Bart Stupak (D., Mich.) on Monday criticized Toyota in a letter for resisting the possibility that problems with Toyota vehicles were caused by electronic faults. Some safety advocates and representatives of accident victims suing Toyota have said that some accidents involving sudden acceleration in Toyota or Lexus vehicles cannot be explained by either of the problems Toyota has identified.
  
  Mr. Lentz's testimony is scheduled for the first of two hearings this week. On Wednesday, the House Oversight and Government Reform committee is scheduled to hold a hearing at which Toyota President Akio Toyoda is scheduled to testify.
  
  In an opinion piece published by The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Toyoda acknowledged that the auto maker had stumbled badly. "It is clear to me that in recent years we didn't listen as carefully as we shouldor respond as quickly as we mustto our customers' concerns," wrote Mr. Toyoda.
  
  Toyota faces multiple investigations of its handling of the sudden acceleration and other safety issues, which have led to recalls affecting more than six million vehicles.
  
  The company disclosed Monday that it has received subpoenas from a federal grand jury in the Southern District of New York and the Securities and Exchange Commission. The Department of Transportation is investigating whether the company violated rules governing disclosure of safety problems, and has said the auto maker could face a civil penalty.
  
  Toyota also faces numerous law suits from plaintiffs who say they have suffered physical or economic damages.
  
  Toyota executives are seeking to use the hearings this week to start a process of rebuilding the company's reputation. A group of about 100 dealers is expected to fan out on Capitol Hill today to support the company, and remind law makers of the thousands of jobs that could be at risk if Toyota can't reverse the damage done to its U.S. sales by the recalls.
  

• kritzell

  

  Honda is now the best selling brand. Better than Ford, Chevy or Toyota. Apparently Toyota buyers are flooding showrooms at Honda dealers.
  
  http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/02/19/1982733/honda-moves-into-no-1-spot-in.html
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  kritzell wrote: Honda is now the best selling brand. Better than Ford, Chevy or Toyota. Apparently Toyota buyers are flooding showrooms at Honda dealers.
  
  http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/02/19/1982733/honda-moves-into-no-1-spot-in.html

  I just read in Motor Trend that Fords Market Share was 14.6% and your link showed 11.7%?
• kritzell

  

  Was it for the same time frame? (This year only) Also this link didn't include commercial/rental fleet sales. Perhaps the Motor Trend one did?
• jmog

  http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
  
  WSJ says different and is closer to Zwick's numbers.
  
  Honda is down near 10%, Ford is around 16%.
• kritzell

  

  My bad.