Switching Employment: Opinions/Advice

• SnotBubbles

  

  Seeking serial opinions/advice.
  
  As most all of you know by now, I work in Construction Management. Our industry obviously hasn't been the most profitable since the downfall of the economy the last 5 or so years. The company I work for has been in the upper echelon of the industry for the economic circumstances. With that said, most construction companies have either cut staff or cut salaries/wages. I have been with the same company for 10 years, I hired in while I was in college. Over the past 4 years, we have had no pay raises and our annual year end bonus has happened only twice (in 5 years) and the amount was much less than usual.
  
  With those annoyances in mind, I decided to test out my options. I had another company (a regular competitor) hinting at wanting me to come work for them for the past 2-3 years. I know the owner well so I put a call in to him telling him I was ready to weigh my options. After 2 interviews, they came back with an offer today.
  
  Essentially, I would receive a 20% salary increase. They would match my current 4 weeks of vacation even though they max out current hires at 3. Insurance and benefits would immediately be in place. I would also have my own personal company vehicle (I don't have that now) and a company phone (I have that now). My duties would fundamentally be unchanged, but glorified with more road time seeking out new prospective clients, and more flexibility on schedule (I could finally coach football, leave early, etc, etc).
  
  The whole purpose (in my head) of doing the interview was to have something to go back to my current employer on and see if I could get them to finally ante up. I am 100% confident that within my division, my superiors would find me hard to replace. I genuinely want to stick with the company I've been loyal to for the last 10 years.
  
  But now I'm nervous about bringing up the offer to my current employer and scared of the possibility of change. I've been employed full-time by 1 company in my entire adult life. So now I'm seeking opinions/advice from you great people, hoping maybe some of you have been through a similar situation.
  
  Thanks in advance.
• gorocks99

  

  They're giving you a 20% raise, a more flexible schedule, more vacation time than others at the company, and it seems like a stable place to be? Sounds like a no-brainer. Go to your current company and see if they'll match. If not, out the door with ye to the new company. Look out for numero uno.
• queencitybuckeye

  An article someone posted on another forum. I don't necessarily agree 100%, but something to consider FWIW:
  
  http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/28/cou...nteroffer.html
• gut

  Don't develop feelings of loyalty or obligation - the vast majority of employers have none for you.
  
  I've heard, and it makes sense (though I've not seen research), that playing the "I have another offer" game usually doesn't work out in the long-run even if your current employer matches. It's not a process you should have to go through, and if your employer is not going to keep-up with market rates then you will constantly be having these issues.
  
  My approach is just to keep the offer to yourself. If you genuinely want to stay with your employer, go ask for a raise. But the way to go about that is not simply just asking for a raise, you have to come armed with facts and demonstrate the value you've created. For example, you said it would be difficult if not impossible to replace you. Have you been doing more, promoted in title and/or responsibility, and not gotten ADDITIONAL raises (beyond annual increases merit) for that? And do some research to see what average rates are for your position and experience.
  
  So if they don't give you a raise, or maybe only give you 10%, I'd probably walk. But to be fair, the grass is not always greener if you are talking just $5k, even $10k a year. Liking where you work and who you work with has value, and changing jobs is not always pleasant nor what you expect it to be. On the other hand, it sounds like this new gig has some definite advantages/perks, as well.
  
  Then if they don't give you the raise you are looking for, you say thanks but no thanks and walk. Note, also, that with a car the difference is >20%. And in this scenario, matching is not good enough for me. If they want me to stay, I'm now looking for 25-30% PLUS the car.
  
  Reality is, in today's business climate, if you want to make top dollar you have to chase it. You have to actively seek out and get those opportunities. There's something to be said for the comfort level and security of staying with one company for years and years, but know the trade-off for that is that you will never maximize your value doing so (unless you have a commission or bonus structure tied to sales/profitability).
• gut

  queencitybuckeye;1186833 wrote:An article someone posted on another forum. I don't necessarily agree 100%, but something to consider FWIW:
  
  http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/28/cou...nteroffer.html

  A similar story to what one professor had told me (I assume he had seen the research). He said the majority of people who accept counteroffers end-up leaving the company in 12-24 months, anyway. That breach of trust, on both sides, breeds animosity for both sides.
  
  Bottom line for Snotbubbles is he started looking because he didn't feel he was being fairly compensated. Is a matching offer going to change that perception or practice? No! Companies usually have salary bands for similar positions, so even if you're able to get the raise now you're really only taking from future raises and not progressing like you think you are. And that's likely a key factor in such people ultimately leaving a few years down the road, anyway.
  
  My thinking is don't burn bridges. Take the new offer, get some new/addtional experience, and going back to your old company is not unheard of if you left on good terms.
• gorocks99

  

  gut;1186841 wrote:A similar story to what one professor had told me (I assume he had seen the research). He said the majority of people who accept counteroffers end-up leaving the company in 12-24 months, anyway. That breach of trust, on both sides, breeds animosity for both sides.
  
  Bottom line for Snotbubbles is he started looking because he didn't feel he was being fairly compensated. Is a matching offer going to change that perception or practice? No! Companies usually have salary bands for similar positions, so even if you're able to get the raise now you're really only taking from future raises and not progressing like you think you are. And that's likely a key factor in such people ultimately leaving a few years down the road, anyway.
  
  My thinking is don't burn bridges. Take the new offer, get some new/addtional experience, and going back to your old company is not unheard of if you left on good terms.

  Not bad advice. Have a rep.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Do it. What's the new company?
• chicago510

  

  gut;1186841 wrote:A similar story to what one professor had told me (I assume he had seen the research). He said the majority of people who accept counteroffers end-up leaving the company in 12-24 months, anyway. That breach of trust, on both sides, breeds animosity for both sides.
  
  Bottom line for Snotbubbles is he started looking because he didn't feel he was being fairly compensated. Is a matching offer going to change that perception or practice? No! Companies usually have salary bands for similar positions, so even if you're able to get the raise now you're really only taking from future raises and not progressing like you think you are. And that's likely a key factor in such people ultimately leaving a few years down the road, anyway.
  
  My thinking is don't burn bridges. Take the new offer, get some new/addtional experience, and going back to your old company is not unheard of if you left on good terms.

  I pretty much agree with this. The reason you are nervous about going to your current employer is because you don't want there to be hard feelings. Well, even if they do extend you some great counter-offer, there are going to be some hurt/pissed-off feelings somewhere that you were freely seeking employment elsewhere (even though you had the right to).
  
  These all seem like pros to me:

  Essentially, I would receive a 20% salary increase. They would match my current 4 weeks of vacation even though they max out current hires at 3. Insurance and benefits would immediately be in place. I would also have my own personal company vehicle (I don't have that now) and a company phone (I have that now). My duties would fundamentally be unchanged, but glorified with more road time seeking out new prospective clients, and more flexibility on schedule (I could finally coach football, leave early, etc, etc).

  The cons are what? Starting anew, and leaving behind coworkers you like?
  
  If you're passionate about construction, family and football (which I think you are from reading you on here), then by all means whats stopping you?
• chicago510

  

  Damn, gut, I disagree wholeheartedly on your opinions of Kate Upton but you have a lot of win on this thread. Bravo.
• Belly35

  

  I have been fired and quit three companies (competitors in the business) and each hired me back and two of the companies hired me back twice.
  Each time I was hired I received additional benefit.</SPAN>
  If you have confidence in your skills and know that you are the best at want you do, the door will always be open for your return. Be professional about leaving and keep the options open for your return, stay in contact with the friends you have made, always be professional but be a hard competitor. You beat them a few times they always rethink what they have done wrong&#8230; </SPAN>
• gut

  And there you have it from Belly. If you do it right, the door is always open to return.
  
  Another benefit not mentioned: Given the cyclicality of construction, and any industry/business in general, it never hurts to expand your contacts and network. Switching jobs will present that many more potential doors to open in the future. That's especially valuable for people in non-sales/purchasing jobs that have limited contact with anyone outside the company.
• sleeper

  

  Gut should go into career consulting. That was honestly the best piece of advice I have ever seen.
• dlazz

  I wouldn't get them to "match" you, just go to the other company. Easy.
  
  Be sure to walk out WIT YA DICK IN YA HAND
• fan_from_texas

  gut;1186841 wrote:A similar story to what one professor had told me (I assume he had seen the research). He said the majority of people who accept counteroffers end-up leaving the company in 12-24 months, anyway. That breach of trust, on both sides, breeds animosity for both sides.
  
  Bottom line for Snotbubbles is he started looking because he didn't feel he was being fairly compensated. Is a matching offer going to change that perception or practice? No! Companies usually have salary bands for similar positions, so even if you're able to get the raise now you're really only taking from future raises and not progressing like you think you are. And that's likely a key factor in such people ultimately leaving a few years down the road, anyway.
  
  My thinking is don't burn bridges. Take the new offer, get some new/addtional experience, and going back to your old company is not unheard of if you left on good terms.

  Reps.