Men vs. Women

• Hb31187

  

  Stronger? probably stronger than most he goes against, hes a bull. bigger n faster though...no hes def not.
  
  Is he 30 or so lbs lighter, MUCH weaker and about 5x less athletic like most WNBA post players would be compared to their male counterparts....no
• sleeper

  

  Hb31187;742556 wrote:LOL you could compete against a shitty d3 team maybe.A good D1 team would blow you away....unless you're still living your glory days and think you're 18 again.
  
  Athleticism trumps fundamentals.....look at the NBA case and point. If the best players were fundamental players the league would be full of Ivy League kids

  
  There are a ton of players in unemployment lines with athleticism. NBA players combine both, and that is why they are the best players in the world. High school kids are not NBA players, most of them are not even college players.
• O-Trap

  

  sleeper;742553 wrote:It's impossible to debate when the "Men" side thinks height, and athleticism make that big of a difference. Heck, take me (6'1") and 4 other guys at my local pick up game and I bet we could compete with a high school team that was taller, faster, more athletic, etc.. Height makes a difference, sure, but I've played against a ton of players who are taller, faster, more athletic, and handed them their lunch by playing fundemental basketball. I'll take a team of team players who can shoot over a bunch of selfish high school boys who think they are the next Kobe Bryant and take 50 terrible shots per game(and make 3 of them).

  Problem is, the next Romeo Travis is under the bucket and will get the rebounds from all the bad shots. The girls aren't going to outjump him or muscle him out of the key. Just isn't going to happen. If they happen to get position on him, he'll easily be able to pin that person down under the hoop, which isn't hard to do if you're bigger and stronger.
  
  And the kids that think they're the next Kobe Bryant ... there's maybe one of those on each team. The rest that I've ever played with performed their responsibilities and play team ball. Many of them were amazing athletes and fundamentally sound.
  
  To stereotype high school basketball players that way isn't accurate, and I think you know that.
  

  sleeper;742606 wrote:There are a ton of players in unemployment lines with athleticism. NBA players combine both, and that is why they are the best players in the world. High school kids are not NBA players, most of them are not even college players.

  Though many of them could be if they wanted to, and were willing to go to a small college.
• sleeper

  

  O-Trap;742637 wrote:Problem is, the next Romeo Travis is under the bucket and will get the rebounds from all the bad shots. The girls aren't going to outjump him or muscle him out of the key. Just isn't going to happen. If they happen to get position on him, he'll easily be able to pin that person down under the hoop, which isn't hard to do if you're bigger and stronger.

  
  It's called "boxing out". Learn to play the game.
• O-Trap

  

  sleeper;742677 wrote:It's called "boxing out". Learn to play the game.

  
  You completely glossed over, because my point was in light of the women TRYING to box out a guy like that. They get position, and they begin trying to box him out. He puts his hip on her butt and pushes her right underneath the hoop. Completely legal, and a huge advantage for a stronger player, so long as they know to do it. If someone tries to box you out, and you "box them completely in" so that they're literally under the hoop, you've won, because they're basically reserved to only "rebounding" anything that has already gone through the hoop.
  
  So they can try to box out all they want, but if I put my butt or hip on their butt and out-push them, such that they end up directly under the basket, I can still get rebounds without any fouling, and they are completely out of the play (except for the occasional airball).
• sleeper

  

  O-Trap;742688 wrote:You completely glossed over, because my point was in light of the women TRYING to box out a guy like that. They get position, and they begin trying to box him out. He puts his hip on her butt and pushes her right underneath the hoop. Completely legal, and a huge advantage for a stronger player, so long as they know to do it. If someone tries to box you out, and you "box them completely in" so that they're literally under the hoop, you've won, because they're basically reserved to only "rebounding" anything that has already gone through the hoop.
  
  So they can try to box out all they want, but if I put my butt or hip on their butt and out-push them, such that they end up directly under the basket, I can still get rebounds without any fouling, and they are completely out of the play (except for the occasional airball).

  
  You can only push a player with your hips. If you know anything about rebounding in basketball, specifically boxing out, its all about leverage. A player at a significant size and strength disadvantage can still box out a player if they know how to fundamentally play the game.
• O-Trap

  

  sleeper;742696 wrote:You can only push a player with your hips. If you know anything about rebounding in basketball, specifically boxing out, its all about leverage. A player at a significant size and strength disadvantage can still box out a player if they know how to fundamentally play the game.

  
  I know precisely how to box out. When I said "hip on her butt," that indicates that their leverage is essentially a push. Having been both a center in basketball, and a linebacker in football, I'm abundantly aware of how "getting lower" than the other guy is an advantage for you. These women, however, would not be playing against centers that just stand up the whole time. I don't think I've ever seen a center or power forward who didn't know how to get as low as the guards could. It's part of the position.
  
  You act as though the women would be the only ones fighting for leverage. Not so. And when the leverage becomes a push, it is then a game of who is stronger.
  
  It's nice to think that the women would win, but against a large high school team of any quality, they'd probably just be overmatched. It's nice to imagine, but it's not even remotely realistic to suggest that the WNBA team would win by anything CLOSE to 30 points ... or even that they'd be a sure thing to win at all.
• sleeper

  

  O-Trap;742721 wrote:I know precisely how to box out. When I said "hip on her butt," that indicates that their leverage is essentially a push. Having been both a center in basketball, and a linebacker in football, I'm abundantly aware of how "getting lower" than the other guy is an advantage for you. These women, however, would not be playing against centers that just stand up the whole time. I don't think I've ever seen a center or power forward who didn't know how to get as low as the guards could. It's part of the position.
  
  You act as though the women would be the only ones fighting for leverage. Not so. And when the leverage becomes a push, it is then a game of who is stronger.

  WNBA by 30.
• O-Trap

  

  sleeper;742722 wrote:WNBA by 30.

  
  What color is the sky in your world, sleeper? Damn, I think I'd love to live in it for even just five minutes.
• Red_Skin_Pride

  

  tk421;740776 wrote:I'm sorry, but you all are crazy if you think a WNBA team with the biggest player being 6'5'' 190 pounds is going to beat teams like I listed that have guys 6'6'' 6'8'' some even 6'10'' and 7'4''. I don't care how "bad" you think high school ball is, it's not going to happen. Fundamentals don't mean squat when the women can't get a freaking shot off.

  There's only 20 high schools in Ohio this year that have a guy listed taller than 6'8.
• Red_Skin_Pride

  

  tk421;740788 wrote:I seriously want someone to explain how an offense designed to get women open against other women is going to work on a team of 6'6'' and taller guys who are longer, faster and more athletic? You think a pick from a women is going to stop them from guarding someone? A team with a 7'4'' center is going to get out rebounded, out "fundamentaled"? I'm not talking about crappy basketball here, these guys play a high level.

  
  You keep talking about this 7'4 center...how many HS in OHIO have a 7'4 center? Of course you can always pick the ONE or TWO high schools that best support your argument, or pick a HS from FLORIDA (i.e. NOT Ohio) to support your argument, but I believe the thread started by talking about a certain D.III team in Ohio being able to beat a WNBA team.
  
  And most guys in HS that are 7' or taller are garbage players. That's why you don't see a ton 7'+ guys dominating college basketball, there's usually a few every couple years. The problem with 90% of guys that tall is that they've ALWAYS been that tall and never had to learn how to jump, how to box out, how to do ANYTHING other than stand there because they've always been a foot taller than everyone else. That doesn't work when you go to college, and it won't work against a girl that's 6'4 to 6'9 who knows how to use her feet and box out. Take a 7'0 guy that has no fundamentals against one of the top women's basketball players and he'll foul out, just like he would against a MAN who knows how to box out and position himself. Basketball, as much as you like to claim, is really only about 50% your size, length, athletic ability etc. The other half is knowing WHAT to do with the tools you're good at.
  
  My high school played a powerful high school a couple years back in the tournament...this high school had a 7'0 center, a 6'8 guy and a 6'7 guy...my high school had one kid that was 6'6, and a kid that was 6'4, those were our two biggest kids. All we heard leading up to that game was that this school had this 7'0 tall kid and how would we match up? After all, this kid had committed to a midmajor DI school to play college basketball the following year. He had 4 points, and fouled out with 8 minutes left to go in the game. Kid had no concept of how to box out, could BARELY get the ball over the rim to dunk it (both of his baskets were dunks) because he didn't know how to jump since he'd never had to in his life, and couldn't make a shot from outside 2 feet (including free throws). There are a LOT of women out there that would make him look silly, and after our 6'6 guy got in foul trouble in the 2nd half, our 6'4 guy DID make him look silly, despite being 8 inches shorter.
  The point is, there are a lot of athletic people out there, both men AND women and if you think that some 20 or 30 something woman who is playing the highest level her sport has to offer, and has been athletic enough to make it to that level her whole life, would get dominated by every high school boy that's taller than her, you haven't watched too much basketball, I can tell you that much. I see high school girls every year in ohio that would make a lot of high school boys look like a fool. I don't disagree that college men beat college women every time, or pro's vs. pro's. Those are given, because those teams select the BEST men to play ( or the best that they can get). MOST high school boys teams play with who they have...the vast minority have the luxury to cut kids who aren't very good.
  
  My question to you is this...who guards Diana Taurasi?
• Hb31187

  

  Trey Burke, Austin Rivers, Gilchrist, and about a million other Hs guards who are goin D1 could guard Taurasi
• OSH

  

  Red_Skin_Pride;742789 wrote:My question to you is this...who guards Diana Taurasi?

  Hb31187;742799 wrote:Trey Burke, Austin Rivers, Gilchrist, and about a million other Hs guards who are goin D1 could guard Taurasi

  
  As long as they are taking steroids!!! HAHAHAHA!
• sherm03

  

  Red_Skin_Pride;742789 wrote:I believe the thread started by talking about a certain D.III team in Ohio being able to beat a WNBA team.

  The thread did start with the OP saying his D3 team could beat the WNBA. I blame myself, because I then commented that the WNBA team would beat just about every high school team in Ohio most years. Then the ones that say the high school boys would win stretched it out to a nationwide comparison...and continue to bring up kids from outside the state to prove their point. I still stand by my original statement.
  

  Hb31187;742799 wrote:Trey Burke, Austin Rivers, Gilchrist, and about a million other Hs guards who are goin D1 could guard Taurasi

  
  You only named one kid from Ohio in your response. And he could not guard Taurasi.
• Hb31187

  

  Trey Burke couldnt guard Taurasi? LOL okay shes 6 foot 165 (according to WNBA homepage) Burke is the exact same size(bout 5lbs heavier)...only quicker, more athletic (seen him dunk), faster, and stronger.
  
  Exactly why couldnt he guard Diana?
• O-Trap

  

  Hb31187;742991 wrote:Trey Burke couldnt guard Taurasi? LOL okay shes 6 foot 165 (according to WNBA homepage) Burke is the exact same size(bout 5lbs heavier)...only quicker, more athletic (seen him dunk), faster, and stronger.
  
  Exactly why couldnt he guard Diana?

  Fundamentals (!)