Holy Father, I can stay no longer in this Church of Disgust

• Apple

  

  So says India Knight of the TimesOnLine:
  Article
  

  ...it’s hard to pay lip-service to a faith that you feel hates you; a faith that would rather let you die in childbirth than have an abortion, won’t let you take the contraception necessary to prevent said abortion, hates gay people despite having many homosexual priests; a faith that talks ignorant nonsense about HIV and Aids, that would rather watch people die in Africa than let them use a condom; a faith that is unbelievably slow to say sorry about the fact that some of its members are habitual rapists of children...

  ...I mean, you know, at some point you just give up. Not one of these things is defensible taken individually. Collectively, they are beyond comprehension.
  A faith based on central authority and infallibility must understand that failure immediately to condemn the rape of children — in Ireland, in America, in Austria, in Germany, in Italy, Spain, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Brazil, so far — is essentially to allow it...

  I have many of the same thoughts and have contemplated the same decisions myself... even at this time, the holiest of weeks for the Church.
  

  This makes me want to be ill, as does a 1962 document that Ratzinger updated in 2001, when he was the Vatican’s head of doctrine. It’s about priests who are accused of sexual relationships with children. The 2001 instructions read: “Cases of this kind are subject to the pontifical secret.”

  Stories which link Ratzinger, (Pope Benedict XVI), to the same sort of ugliness in Europe that is documented in the USA make me feel like I have been violated. To think this shit goes all the way up to the Pope makes me want to be ill too.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  I'm not Catholic, but wouldn't it be better to stay and fight from within to correct what you believe are ills in the church -- rather than running away?
• eersandbeers

  Writerbuckeye wrote: I'm not Catholic, but wouldn't it be better to stay and fight from within to correct what you believe are ills in the church -- rather than running away?

  How can you really fight the Vatican? It is an old guys club who aren't really concerned with what the believers think. They decide what the followers of the church should believe.
  
  Other denominations of Christianity don't necessarily have a leader like the Catholic Church so not sure if you could really relate.
  
  Just another scandal from the pedophilia approving Vatican. Not surprising. Maybe they can pay another 700 million to make people happy. Just a disgusting organization, as it has been throughout history.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I'm not going to talk all kinds of smack on the Catholic church, but I wonder sometimes if some of those people (including the Vatican) forget that they have to answer to God, too?
• I Wear Pants

  Two things.
  
  One: My mouth is bleeding. (Cool story)
  
  Two: I'm Catholic and this shit pisses me off beyond comprehension.
• Footwedge

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I'm not going to talk all kinds of smack on the Catholic church, but I wonder sometimes if some of those people (including the Vatican) forget that they have to answer to God, too?

  My guess would be that the elevator ride will go south and not north for the pedophile priests upon death. Will also head south for all pedophiles. period.
• Apple

  

  I Wear Pants wrote:...I'm Catholic and this shit pisses me off beyond comprehension.

  Me TOO!
• bigmanbt

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I'm not going to talk all kinds of smack on the Catholic church, but I wonder sometimes if some of those people (including the Vatican) forget that they have to answer to God, too?

  Maybe they know the secret that there is no God. lol I kid, I kid, not gonna make this that debate.
  
  But seriously, not many religions more corrupt than the Catholic Church, at least the European section.
• Paladin

  Agreed. The Catholic church is corrupt. The ideology is warped. And all they are concerned about is power & money.
• eersandbeers

  Paladin wrote: Agreed. The Catholic church is corrupt. The ideology is warped. And all they are concerned about is power & money.

  Well the Church has pretty much been like that as long as it has existed. It is not about religion. It is about power and money.
• Footwedge

  Nothin better than a good thread bashing the Catholic Church. LOL..
  
  Here is an author that did some extensive research on pedophiles within the Catholic Church. This author, interestingly, was not Catholic.
  
  Just a short summary of his findings...which will of course upset the catholic haters.....
  
  
  "In light of his work, we should remember some basic facts and principles:
  
  
  Priestly celibacy is not the issue – married men are more likely to abuse children than unmarried
  Most child abuse takes place within the home.
  All religious groups have pedophile scandals, and the Catholics (while the largest religious group) are at the bottom of the list statistically.
  Child abuse is prevalent in all areas of society: schools, youth organizations, sports, etc.
  Statistically, of all the professions, Christian clergy are least likely to offend. Doctors, Farmers and Teachers are the professions most likely to abuse children–not clergy.
  Among clergy offenders Catholic priests are least likely to offend.
  Catholic cases of pedophilia make more headlines because of anti Catholic prejudice and because the Catholic Church is bigger and more lucractive to sue.
  Pedophilia and Euphebophilia are different problems. The former is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. The latter is attraction to teenagers. Most cases branded ‘pedophila’ are actually ‘euphebophila.’
  
  http://fratres.wordpress.com/2010/03...ophile-priest/
• HitsRus

  

  Can't get your link to work footwedge.
  
  Statistics from 3 insurance insurance companies indicate that they handle over 260 cases of NON CATHOLIC clergy abuse of children a year. It is hardly a Catholic only problem.
  http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm
  
  Moreover, abuse can and does occur anywhere you have authority figures with power over individuals especially children.
  
  None of the current brouhaha is anything new, except that the current Pope might be guilty of what others did 20-50 years ago,...believe that pedophiles could be safely rehabilitated.
• Footwedge

  Hits...Try this. The author's most recent article can be found in the bottom. The man did 20 years of researching the subject.
  
  http://fratres.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/a-non-catholic-perspective-the-myth-of-the-pedophile-priest/
  
  http://fratres.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/a-non-catholic-perspective-the-myth-of-the-pedophile-priest/
• I Wear Pants

  Those links were interesting and informative.
• Footwedge

  I Wear Pants wrote: Those links were interesting and informative.

  Thanks for the appreciative responce. I have no problem with people bashing pedophiles...I think they all should be incarcerated for life...no exceptions. But I also think that people should be made aware of 2 things regarding the Catholic priests. Statistically, their make up (pedophiles) mirror those of teachers, boy scout leaders, and leaders of other religious entities per capita. The idea that this is only a Catholic priest problem is grossly misleading...as portrayed by the media.
  
  And secondly, over 80% of these cases involved relationships with post puberty teens, most were to some degree, consentual in nature. Whereby a priest using his power to seduce a teenager to engage in sex should definitely be punished hard, it is not the same level of crime in comparison to sexually assaulting a 6 year old kid.
• bigmanbt

  Excuse me, but aren't they suppose to be celibate? It's hypocritical at the very least to even engage in the sexual activity for them, consensual or not. The problem Foot, is that if churches are suppose to be those holy places, shouldn't they have LESS cases than teachers and the like. The Catholic Church prides itself on being "better" than the rest, yet are just like everyone else in actuality.
• I Wear Pants

  Um, I haven't heard the "we're better than everyone else" sermon at Mass.
• Apple

  

  I give kudos to the tone this thread is taking and I appreciate the links that have been posted.
  
  This is not just a "Catholic" problem... it's societal and spans histories.
  
  I'm just ashamed that the Catholic stories, which seem very credible, are linked all the way to the Pope when he was an Archbishop in Germany.
  
  That absolutely makes me more sick than what Polarcek did moving offending priest around while Archbishop in Cincinnati.
• FairwoodKing

  Yes, teachers and farmers and doctors can be guilty of this. But aren't priests supposed to give themselves to a higher calling?
• Footwedge

  bigmanbt wrote: Excuse me, but aren't they suppose to be celibate? It's hypocritical at the very least to even engage in the sexual activity for them, consensual or not. The problem Foot, is that if churches are suppose to be those holy places, shouldn't they have LESS cases than teachers and the like. The Catholic Church prides itself on being "better" than the rest, yet are just like everyone else in actuality.

  Yes they should. Pedophile priests are lower than whaleshit...should be locked up and never paroled. I guess a better point would be pointing out that the Catholic priest problem is similar to the Protestant Church clergymen problem. The media wants to single out the Catholics...which is not reporting accurately.
  
  All clergymen have a certain number of pedophiles. All of them are the scourge of the earth. Not just the catholic clergymen who receive the most media attention.
• Footwedge

  I Wear Pants wrote: Um, I haven't heard the "we're better than everyone else" sermon at Mass.

  This.....your answer to btman. I heard a little of this while attending Parochial grade school. But not in the last 40 years or so.
  
  Another misconception of the Catholic church and the teachings.
• Footwedge

  I am watching carefully on how this plays out with the Pope. If it comes to light, that the Pope knowingly sent pedophile bishops or priests to another area, after the medical community had established that pedaphiles cannot be cured, then I will quit the church in a heart beat, unless he reisigns.
• HitsRus

  

  bigmanbt wrote: Excuse me, but aren't they suppose to be celibate? It's hypocritical at the very least to even engage in the sexual activity for them, consensual or not. The problem Foot, is that if churches are suppose to be those holy places, shouldn't they have LESS cases than teachers and the like. The Catholic Church prides itself on being "better" than the rest, yet are just like everyone else in actuality.

  
  Hypocritical?...like 90% of the population about one thing or another?
  
  It's about authority figures abusing their power. A Priest is just a religious 'teacher'....so is it any worse than "teachers hooking up with their students"? It is EXACTLY the same thing....yet not long ago there was a thread on this site that drew dozens of replies and jokes about "teachers hooking up" and nary a word of outraged indignation.
  In fact one poster, supposedly an outraged father concerned that his high school kid was reading that shit, had the good sense to complain and was promptly hooted off the board.
  
  Hypocrites? yeah....look in the mirror.
• BCSbunk

  Footwedge wrote: Nothin better than a good thread bashing the Catholic Church. LOL..
  
  Here is an author that did some extensive research on pedophiles within the Catholic Church. This author, interestingly, was not Catholic.
  
  Just a short summary of his findings...which will of course upset the catholic haters.....
  
  
  "In light of his work, we should remember some basic facts and principles:
  
  
  Priestly celibacy is not the issue – married men are more likely to abuse children than unmarried
  Most child abuse takes place within the home.
  All religious groups have pedophile scandals, and the Catholics (while the largest religious group) are at the bottom of the list statistically.
  Child abuse is prevalent in all areas of society: schools, youth organizations, sports, etc.
  Statistically, of all the professions, Christian clergy are least likely to offend. Doctors, Farmers and Teachers are the professions most likely to abuse children–not clergy.
  Among clergy offenders Catholic priests are least likely to offend.
  Catholic cases of pedophilia make more headlines because of anti Catholic prejudice and because the Catholic Church is bigger and more lucractive to sue.
  Pedophilia and Euphebophilia are different problems. The former is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. The latter is attraction to teenagers. Most cases branded ‘pedophila’ are actually ‘euphebophila.’
  
  http://fratres.wordpress.com/2010/03...ophile-priest/

  The biggest deal of all this is not the fact that the Priests did this it is the fact that he Church knew of the complaints and then protected and moved the Priests.
  
  I agree there are people like that all over but not organizations that protected them.
  
  I do agree with the labels being wrong in most of the cases. It is not Pedophilia and is Euphebophila.
  
  Like I stated though the worst problem is the coverup by the heirarchy of the church.
• j_crazy

  

  Apple wrote: So says India Knight of the TimesOnLine:
  Article
  

  ...it’s hard to pay lip-service to a faith that you feel hates you; a faith that would rather let you die in childbirth than have an abortion, won’t let you take the contraception necessary to prevent said abortion, hates gay people despite having many homosexual priests; a faith that talks ignorant nonsense about HIV and Aids, that would rather watch people die in Africa than let them use a condom; a faith that is unbelievably slow to say sorry about the fact that some of its members are habitual rapists of children...

  ...I mean, you know, at some point you just give up. Not one of these things is defensible taken individually. Collectively, they are beyond comprehension.
  A faith based on central authority and infallibility must understand that failure immediately to condemn the rape of children — in Ireland, in America, in Austria, in Germany, in Italy, Spain, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Brazil, so far — is essentially to allow it...

  I have many of the same thoughts and have contemplated the same decisions myself... even at this time, the holiest of weeks for the Church.
  

  This makes me want to be ill, as does a 1962 document that Ratzinger updated in 2001, when he was the Vatican’s head of doctrine. It’s about priests who are accused of sexual relationships with children. The 2001 instructions read: “Cases of this kind are subject to the pontifical secret.”

  Stories which link Ratzinger, (Pope Benedict XVI), to the same sort of ugliness in Europe that is documented in the USA make me feel like I have been violated. To think this shit goes all the way up to the Pope makes me want to be ill too.

  This is why I lost the faith. I still go to church and go through the motions (except communion) but I don't believe any more. I just do it so my baby grows up with some sort of faith and its at least partly a family thing (my wife will go with or without me).