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Church Challenges Beck

  • Strapping Young Lad
    JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
    The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
  • Footwedge
    Strapping Young Lad wrote:
    JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
    The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
    This....and the Bible also teaches to love thy neighbor as thyself. Yet, many religious factions, including my fellow Catholics of yesteryear, orchestrasted brutal torture during periods of history, like the Inquisition.
  • BCBulldog
    Strapping Young Lad wrote:
    JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
    The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
    Nice try, but it speaks of willingly helping the poor, not intentionally subjecting yourself to socialist redistribution of wealth. The Bible also says that if a man will not work, he shall not eat.
  • Footwedge
    BCBulldog wrote:
    Strapping Young Lad wrote:
    JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
    The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
    Nice try, but it speaks of willingly helping the poor, not intentionally subjecting yourself to socialist redistribution of wealth. The Bible also says that if a man will not work, he shall not eat.
    The Bible also talks about teaching people to fish...but no chapter and verse relating to outsourcing of all the fishermen.
  • Captain Cavalier
    ManO'War wrote: It seems that those two statements pretty much go hand in hand.
    I guess you could say that. If the Church teaches about a moral issue such as abortion, then one could or might take that as supporting those that appose abortion.
    Strapping Young Lad wrote:The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
    Yet that was voluntary distribution..."charity". I don't believe it was mandated. Jesus preached that it should be given from a true heart.
  • Strapping Young Lad
    I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....
  • CenterBHSFan
    Strapping Young Lad wrote: I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....

    What?!

    I've never been given, while in Church, that I'll be subject to "eternal damnation" if I didn't/couldn't give a donation.

    EVER.

    If you've seriously been to a church that practices this, then it's no wonder you have the feelings about God that you do.
  • majorspark
    Strapping Young Lad wrote: I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....
    Which protestant churches press people to tithe in order to save their souls? Since you say you know some. Just want to know which ones to avoid.
  • majorspark
    CenterBHSFan wrote:
    Strapping Young Lad wrote: I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....

    What?!

    I've never been given, while in Church, that I'll be subject to "eternal damnation" if I didn't/couldn't give a donation.

    EVER.

    If you've seriously been to a church that practices this, then it's no wonder you have the feelings about God that you do.
    There are some strange religious groups out there but my guess is the young lad is just spouting some late night BS.
  • I Wear Pants
    The following is from an About.com article (I know, real reputable). I thought it was interesting but please feel free to point out its flaws. Just don't attack me as the article doesn't necessarily represent my views I just thought it was intriguing.
    One topic of discussion which comes up every so often is the connection between fervent evangelical Christianity and equally fervent anti-communism. In the minds of many Americans, atheism and communism are indelibly linked and political actions opposed to communism have long taken the form of strengthening America's public Christianity.

    It was thus that the American government made “In God We Trust” the national motto and put it on all money in the 1950s. It was also for this reason that “under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance around the same time.

    Because of all this, one gets the impression that the Bible is some sort of treatise on capitalism and Jesus an early venture capitalist. The fact that just the opposite appears to be true is thus very surprising. The book of Acts has two explicit passages depicting the very communistic nature of the early Christian community:

    All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
    (Acts 2:44-45)

    There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    (Acts 4:34-37)

    Is it possible that Marx’s famous line “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” took its inspiration directly from the New Testament? Immediately following this second passage is a very interesting story about a couple, Ananias and Sapphira, who sold a piece of property but only gave the community a portion of the proceeds, keeping some of it for themselves. When Peter confronts them with this, they both fall down and die - leaving the impression (for many people) that they were struck dead.

    Killing bourgeoisie land owners who fail to give all of their money to the community? That’s not merely communism, that’s Stalinism.

    Of course, in addition to the above, there are many, many statements attributed to Jesus which emphasize doing all that you can to help the poor — even to the point of him recommending that a rich man sell all of his possessions and give the money to the poor if he really wishes to get into heaven. The Old Testament also indicates that something akin to communism is the preferable way to live:

    This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat
    (Ex. 16:16-18)

    It is no wonder, then, that any number of Christian groups have adopted ways of living which, while explicitly based upon biblical stories, are also expressions of communist ideals. Such groups include the Shakers, Mormons, Hutterites and more.

    In summary, this isn’t so much a problem with the Bible as it is a problem with the people who claim to follow the Bible and use it as their primary guide to how they should live their lives. Some certainly take passages like the above to heart — witness the strong social ethic of many Catholics and the very communistic Liberation Theology which has developed out of Catholicism.

    Most, however, simply ignore the above passages - just as they ignore so much else which is politically or morally inconvenient.
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  • ptown_trojans_1
    I Wear Pants wrote: The following is from an About.com article (I know, real reputable).
    Link?
  • I Wear Pants
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote:
    I Wear Pants wrote: The following is from an About.com article (I know, real reputable).
    Link?
    http://atheism.about.com/od/thebible/a/communism.htm

    I lol'd at the address. Atheism.about.com
  • Strapping Young Lad
    Since Jesus speaks of these ideas of giving away possessions along with affluence and salvation, I don't think it's a stretch for the church to preach the idea that you must give your dues to the church.

    Of course today, in America, we'll twist these words around to fit our lifestyle instead of twisting our lifestyle to fit the word of God.

    I don't recall the saints driving BMW's. Wonder why many of them chose to live a life of poverty and humility......Probably b/c that's what Jesus said to do. Why is a church off base to preach these ideas???

    I know YOU wouldn't actually want to confront these choices. YOU want to read the words of Jesus selectivly. As long as you can still live how you want you'll claim Christianity. But as soon as they start asking you to actually live that way, you don't wanna hear it.

    LOL @ Christianity in America......
  • BCBulldog
    Strapping Young Lad wrote: Since Jesus speaks of these ideas of giving away possessions along with affluence and salvation, I don't think it's a stretch for the church to preach the idea that you must give your dues to the church.

    Of course today, in America, we'll twist these words around to fit our lifestyle instead of twisting our lifestyle to fit the word of God.

    I don't recall the saints driving BMW's. Wonder why many of them chose to live a life of poverty and humility......Probably b/c that's what Jesus said to do. Why is a church off base to preach these ideas???

    I know YOU wouldn't actually want to confront these choices. YOU want to read the words of Jesus selectivly. As long as you can still live how you want you'll claim Christianity. But as soon as they start asking you to actually live that way, you don't wanna hear it.

    LOL @ Christianity in America......
    Dig deeper. Christ himself was what we consider now to be middle-upper class. If you look closer at the parable of the rich young ruler, you will see that it wasn't about money, but that the man was beholden to it which kept him seperated from God. The Bible speaks often about money and being good stewards of it. It would be difficult to be a good steward of money if you have none. Certainly greed is a sin, but wealth is not.
  • Strapping Young Lad
    Tell it to St. Peter, honey.
  • BCBulldog
    He already knows, sweetheart.
  • CenterBHSFan
    Strapping Young Lad wrote: Tell it to St. Peter, honey.
    Why would he have to tell St. Peter? You were the one who didn't understand correctly. Did you not want the explaination?
  • Footwedge
    BCBulldog wrote:
    Strapping Young Lad wrote: Since Jesus speaks of these ideas of giving away possessions along with affluence and salvation, I don't think it's a stretch for the church to preach the idea that you must give your dues to the church.

    Of course today, in America, we'll twist these words around to fit our lifestyle instead of twisting our lifestyle to fit the word of God.

    I don't recall the saints driving BMW's. Wonder why many of them chose to live a life of poverty and humility......Probably b/c that's what Jesus said to do. Why is a church off base to preach these ideas???

    I know YOU wouldn't actually want to confront these choices. YOU want to read the words of Jesus selectivly. As long as you can still live how you want you'll claim Christianity. But as soon as they start asking you to actually live that way, you don't wanna hear it.

    LOL @ Christianity in America......
    Dig deeper. Christ himself was what we consider now to be middle-upper class. If you look closer at the parable of the rich young ruler, you will see that it wasn't about money, but that the man was beholden to it which kept him seperated from God. The Bible speaks often about money and being good stewards of it. It would be difficult to be a good steward of money if you have none. Certainly greed is a sin, but wealth is not.
    Carpenters made some serious coin back then....:D
  • captain_obvious
    yeah, but the Union dues killed them...
  • CenterBHSFan
    captain_obvious wrote: yeah, but the Union dues killed them...
    I don't really have anything important to say, but that made me, literally, LOL!