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Bar Wins Smoking Ban Case

  • ts1227
    Why does anyone even bother arguing with Prescott on this? He has recycled the three same piss poor points on this over multiple threads both here and at the old place.

    Every time someone posts is just the equivalent to pulling the drawstring on the back of a doll to get a prerecorded phrase from Prescott.
  • Prescott
    He has recycled the three same piss poor points on this over multiple threads both here and at the old place.
    Which points are you referring to?

    The bogus studies that the anti-smoking zealots use and that eersandbeers often cites?(one which was overturned in 1998 by Judge Osteen )

    The private business open to the public truth that queencitybuckeye often references?

    The personal responsibility tenet that centerBHSFan supports?

    The language of the law that mislead voters as Governor Strickland pointed out?

    Which points do you find piss poor and why?
  • dwccrew
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    Glory Days wrote:
    there are also laws in place to prevent that drunk from killing you. DUI, bartenders having to cut you off etc.
    Then why are there drunk driving fatalities all the time? Weak argument bro.
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: The air belongs to everyone, not just smokers. Before these bans took place, I could not avoid second-hand smoke. It was everywhere.
    Everything in my place of business belongs to me, including the air. If you don't like the quality of my air (or anything else), you have the right to choose not to patronize my business. That ends the list of your rights as it pertains to my property.
    No, the air in your establishment does not belong to you. It belongs to everyone on this planet.

    Your comments are making you look like the type of person you really are: selfish and arrogant. I'm just glad I don't have to put up with a jerk like you.
    Then the air in your home doesn't belong to you, it belongs to all of us. So can I come in to your home if I'd like?

    Sorry, but even if the air belongs to all, you are not forced to go in and breathe that air.
    What kind of an asshole comment is it that I am not forced to breathe air? What in hell do you think I am going to breathe?

    If you came to my home, you would be able to breathe fresh clean air. It would be the best thing that ever happened to you!


    Uhhhh, what kind of dumbass comment is this? Where did I say you were not forced to breathe air? Maybe you should check your reading comprehension as I clearly stated you are not forced to go IN and breathe the air in that establishment. You want to breathe fresh air, go somewhere else that doesn't allow smoking.
  • eersandbeers
    Prescott wrote:

    The bogus studies that the anti-smoking zealots use and that eersandbeers often cites?(one which was overturned in 1998 by Judge Osteen )

    Not sure what you are talking about as I'm not one of the anti-smoking zelots.
  • FairwoodKing
    dwccrew wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    Glory Days wrote:
    there are also laws in place to prevent that drunk from killing you. DUI, bartenders having to cut you off etc.
    Then why are there drunk driving fatalities all the time? Weak argument bro.
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: The air belongs to everyone, not just smokers. Before these bans took place, I could not avoid second-hand smoke. It was everywhere.
    Everything in my place of business belongs to me, including the air. If you don't like the quality of my air (or anything else), you have the right to choose not to patronize my business. That ends the list of your rights as it pertains to my property.
    No, the air in your establishment does not belong to you. It belongs to everyone on this planet.

    Your comments are making you look like the type of person you really are: selfish and arrogant. I'm just glad I don't have to put up with a jerk like you.
    Then the air in your home doesn't belong to you, it belongs to all of us. So can I come in to your home if I'd like?

    Sorry, but even if the air belongs to all, you are not forced to go in and breathe that air.
    What kind of an asshole comment is it that I am not forced to breathe air? What in hell do you think I am going to breathe?

    If you came to my home, you would be able to breathe fresh clean air. It would be the best thing that ever happened to you!


    Uhhhh, what kind of dumbass comment is this? Where did I say you were not forced to breathe air? Maybe you should check your reading comprehension as I clearly stated you are not forced to go IN and breathe the air in that establishment. You want to breathe fresh air, go somewhere else that doesn't allow smoking.
    It's not a dumbass comment. Before the smoking ban took place, I used to get bombarded with tobacco smoke everywhere. Even some of my college professors smoked in class.

    I'm just grateful that the State of Washinton protects me from people like you.
  • dwccrew
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    Glory Days wrote:
    there are also laws in place to prevent that drunk from killing you. DUI, bartenders having to cut you off etc.
    Then why are there drunk driving fatalities all the time? Weak argument bro.
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: The air belongs to everyone, not just smokers. Before these bans took place, I could not avoid second-hand smoke. It was everywhere.
    Everything in my place of business belongs to me, including the air. If you don't like the quality of my air (or anything else), you have the right to choose not to patronize my business. That ends the list of your rights as it pertains to my property.
    No, the air in your establishment does not belong to you. It belongs to everyone on this planet.

    Your comments are making you look like the type of person you really are: selfish and arrogant. I'm just glad I don't have to put up with a jerk like you.
    Then the air in your home doesn't belong to you, it belongs to all of us. So can I come in to your home if I'd like?

    Sorry, but even if the air belongs to all, you are not forced to go in and breathe that air.
    What kind of an asshole comment is it that I am not forced to breathe air? What in hell do you think I am going to breathe?

    If you came to my home, you would be able to breathe fresh clean air. It would be the best thing that ever happened to you!


    Uhhhh, what kind of dumbass comment is this? Where did I say you were not forced to breathe air? Maybe you should check your reading comprehension as I clearly stated you are not forced to go IN and breathe the air in that establishment. You want to breathe fresh air, go somewhere else that doesn't allow smoking.
    It's not a dumbass comment. Before the smoking ban took place, I used to get bombarded with tobacco smoke everywhere. Even some of my college professors smoked in class.

    I'm just grateful that the State of Washinton protects me from people like you.
    What kind of person am I? I don't smoke. Never have in my life. But I do realize that if I want to avoid smoke and breathe fresh air, I don't need the government to enact laws to protect me, I can CHOOSE not to go to places where smoke is present. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.
  • FairwoodKing
    dwccrew wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    Glory Days wrote:
    there are also laws in place to prevent that drunk from killing you. DUI, bartenders having to cut you off etc.
    Then why are there drunk driving fatalities all the time? Weak argument bro.
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: The air belongs to everyone, not just smokers. Before these bans took place, I could not avoid second-hand smoke. It was everywhere.
    Everything in my place of business belongs to me, including the air. If you don't like the quality of my air (or anything else), you have the right to choose not to patronize my business. That ends the list of your rights as it pertains to my property.
    No, the air in your establishment does not belong to you. It belongs to everyone on this planet.

    Your comments are making you look like the type of person you really are: selfish and arrogant. I'm just glad I don't have to put up with a jerk like you.
    Then the air in your home doesn't belong to you, it belongs to all of us. So can I come in to your home if I'd like?

    Sorry, but even if the air belongs to all, you are not forced to go in and breathe that air.
    What kind of an asshole comment is it that I am not forced to breathe air? What in hell do you think I am going to breathe?

    If you came to my home, you would be able to breathe fresh clean air. It would be the best thing that ever happened to you!


    Uhhhh, what kind of dumbass comment is this? Where did I say you were not forced to breathe air? Maybe you should check your reading comprehension as I clearly stated you are not forced to go IN and breathe the air in that establishment. You want to breathe fresh air, go somewhere else that doesn't allow smoking.
    It's not a dumbass comment. Before the smoking ban took place, I used to get bombarded with tobacco smoke everywhere. Even some of my college professors smoked in class.

    I'm just grateful that the State of Washinton protects me from people like you.
    What kind of person am I? I don't smoke. Never have in my life. But I do realize that if I want to avoid smoke and breathe fresh air, I don't need the government to enact laws to protect me, I can CHOOSE not to go to places where smoke is present. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.
    Maybe you're too young to remember the days when smoking was everywhere-- in every restaurant, lounge, office, classroom, home, and just about every place imaginable. I really suffered because of my allergies and asthma. I didn't have any choice-- I had to put up with it.

    As I've gotten older, my health conditions have gotten worse. I start coughing if I pass someone on the street who is smoking. That is why I am grateful to the voters of Washington who got rid of smoke in most public places.
  • dwccrew
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    dwccrew wrote:
    Glory Days wrote:
    there are also laws in place to prevent that drunk from killing you. DUI, bartenders having to cut you off etc.
    Then why are there drunk driving fatalities all the time? Weak argument bro.
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: The air belongs to everyone, not just smokers. Before these bans took place, I could not avoid second-hand smoke. It was everywhere.
    Everything in my place of business belongs to me, including the air. If you don't like the quality of my air (or anything else), you have the right to choose not to patronize my business. That ends the list of your rights as it pertains to my property.
    No, the air in your establishment does not belong to you. It belongs to everyone on this planet.

    Your comments are making you look like the type of person you really are: selfish and arrogant. I'm just glad I don't have to put up with a jerk like you.
    Then the air in your home doesn't belong to you, it belongs to all of us. So can I come in to your home if I'd like?

    Sorry, but even if the air belongs to all, you are not forced to go in and breathe that air.
    What kind of an asshole comment is it that I am not forced to breathe air? What in hell do you think I am going to breathe?

    If you came to my home, you would be able to breathe fresh clean air. It would be the best thing that ever happened to you!


    Uhhhh, what kind of dumbass comment is this? Where did I say you were not forced to breathe air? Maybe you should check your reading comprehension as I clearly stated you are not forced to go IN and breathe the air in that establishment. You want to breathe fresh air, go somewhere else that doesn't allow smoking.
    It's not a dumbass comment. Before the smoking ban took place, I used to get bombarded with tobacco smoke everywhere. Even some of my college professors smoked in class.

    I'm just grateful that the State of Washinton protects me from people like you.
    What kind of person am I? I don't smoke. Never have in my life. But I do realize that if I want to avoid smoke and breathe fresh air, I don't need the government to enact laws to protect me, I can CHOOSE not to go to places where smoke is present. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.
    Maybe you're too young to remember the days when smoking was everywhere-- in every restaurant, lounge, office, classroom, home, and just about every place imaginable. I really suffered because of my allergies and asthma. I didn't have any choice-- I had to put up with it.

    As I've gotten older, my health conditions have gotten worse. I start coughing if I pass someone on the street who is smoking. That is why I am grateful to the voters of Washington who got rid of smoke in most public places.

    I agree that in public places, i.e. office and government buildings, places of employment, classrooms, parks should be smoke free. A bar is not a public place, it is a private establishment open to the public. Meaning you don't have to go if you so choose not to. Classrooms, office and gov't buildings, places of employment are places we HAVE to be, bars are not.

    I hope that your health improves and I am glad that you are no longer subjected to smoke, but to say that it was forced upon you in a bar is not an accurate statement. You put yourself in that situation.

    Now as far as any other place I mentioned, yes, smoking should be barred from there; that I agree with you.
  • FairwoodKing
    I won't hit the reply key to the previous posts because the string was getting a bit long. Let me just say that the laws are there and they are not likely to change. I just hope they are enforced as rigorously in Ohio as they are in Washington.
  • Prescott
    Not sure what you are talking about as I'm not one of the anti-smoking zelots.


    I was pointing out that you have posted more than once that there have never been any valid studies that show a causal relationship between SHS and lung cancer.
    in every restaurant, lounge, office, classroom, home, and just about every place imaginable. I really suffered because of my allergies and asthma. I didn't have any choice-- I had to put up with it.
    My uncle is almost 60 years old and he doesn't recall anyone being allowed to smoke in any classroom; elementary,high school, or college.

    I'm sorry that your parents chose to smoke in your home while you suffered from asthma. That is familial problem and not a government problem.

    I'm just grateful that the State of Washinton protects me from people like you.


    This statement says it all. You need the state to protect you. I think I can protect myself from an annoyance like SHS.

    A link to a relevant letter to the editor published in today's Columbus
    Dispatch    .

    http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/03/03/make-establishments-buy-smoking-permits.html?sid=101
  • Glory Days
    I choose not to go into an adult bookstore because it offends me.

    I suggest nonsmokers do the same when it comes to a bar or fraternal organization
    bad example, try finding a non smoking bar before the ban. on the other hand i could find hundreds upon hundreds of non adult bookstores.
  • queencitybuckeye
    Glory Days wrote: bad example, try finding a non smoking bar before the ban.
    Exactly. There was no demand for them, or they would exist. Why create such a product by government edict when it's clear that no one wanted them?
  • Glory Days
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    Glory Days wrote: bad example, try finding a non smoking bar before the ban.
    Exactly. There was no demand for them, or they would exist. Why create such a product by government edict when it's clear that no one wanted them?
    if there was no demand for them, how did the vote pass? change comes about in many ways. sometimes thats what it takes to break out of the status quo.
  • BCBulldog
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    Glory Days wrote: bad example, try finding a non smoking bar before the ban.
    Exactly. There was no demand for them, or they would exist. Why create such a product by government edict when it's clear that no one wanted them?
    I'm as protective of personal property rights as anyone, but you can't deny that conventional wisdom and fear of failure would likely keep anyone from attempting a smoke free bar, restaurant, bowling alley, etc. Sometimes an outside force, in this case - public opinion, uncovered a market that nobody knew existed. It still shouldn't have happened this way, but I don't know that it would have happened any other way.
  • queencitybuckeye
    Glory Days wrote: if there was no demand for them, how did the vote pass?
    I'm not sure. I do know those who voted yes, for the most part, aren't patronizing the establishments. I'm not sure why one would vote to outlaw something they, by their actions, clearly have no interest in.
  • queencitybuckeye
    BCBulldog wrote: I'm as protective of personal property rights as anyone, but you can't deny that conventional wisdom and fear of failure would likely keep anyone from attempting a smoke free bar, restaurant, bowling alley, etc.
    And the post-ban drop in traffic would prove that fear to be a reasonable one. It confirmed that there indeed was no real demand for such establishments, as measured by dollars, not votes.
  • tk421
    If someone wants this bill removed, why don't they do what the proponents of the bill did and try to get an amendment passed? If so many people now in Ohio aren't for this bill, there should be no problem with getting the required amount of signatures.
  • Glory Days
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    Glory Days wrote: if there was no demand for them, how did the vote pass?
    I'm not sure. I do know those who voted yes, for the most part, aren't patronizing the establishments. I'm not sure why one would vote to outlaw something they, by their actions, clearly have no interest in.
    that might make you feel warm and fuzzy, but i highly doubt that is true. i would say the vast majority of adults have been to a bar sometime in their life. plus remember, its not just bars, but most resturants also allowed smoking. the non smoking sections they had were a joke.
    queencitybuckeye wrote:
    BCBulldog wrote: I'm as protective of personal property rights as anyone, but you can't deny that conventional wisdom and fear of failure would likely keep anyone from attempting a smoke free bar, restaurant, bowling alley, etc.
    And the post-ban drop in traffic would prove that fear to be a reasonable one. It confirmed that there indeed was no real demand for such establishments, as measured by dollars, not votes.
    is there any proof to that? business has dropped in all sectors with the economy. it might be hard trying to find statistics that point to the smoking ban alone.
    tk421 wrote: If someone wants this bill removed, why don't they do what the proponents of the bill did and try to get an amendment passed? If so many people now in Ohio aren't for this bill, there should be no problem with getting the required amount of signatures.
    exactly.
  • I Wear Pants
    Prescott wrote:
    Not sure what you are talking about as I'm not one of the anti-smoking zelots.


    I was pointing out that you have posted more than once that there have never been any valid studies that show a causal relationship between SHS and lung cancer.
    in every restaurant, lounge, office, classroom, home, and just about every place imaginable. I really suffered because of my allergies and asthma. I didn't have any choice-- I had to put up with it.
    My uncle is almost 60 years old and he doesn't recall anyone being allowed to smoke in any classroom; elementary,high school, or college.

    I'm sorry that your parents chose to smoke in your home while you suffered from asthma. That is familial problem and not a government problem.

    I'm just grateful that the State of Washinton protects me from people like you.


    This statement says it all. You need the state to protect you. I think I can protect myself from an annoyance like SHS.

    A link to a relevant letter to the editor published in today's Columbus
    Dispatch    .

    http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/03/03/make-establishments-buy-smoking-permits.html?sid=101
    You definitely used to be allowed to smoke in college classrooms.
    At least the professors did.
  • Prescott
    You definitely used to be allowed to smoke in college classrooms.
    At least the professors did.
    Not in the college I attended. My uncle was at OSU during the late 60's and early 7s. He doesn't remember anyone smoking in class.
  • FairwoodKing
    Prescott wrote:
    You definitely used to be allowed to smoke in college classrooms.
    At least the professors did.
    Not in the college I attended. My uncle was at OSU during the late 60's and early 7s. He doesn't remeber anuone smoking in class.
    Well I remember it. I once got an F in a course at Kent State because the asshole prof smoked and I had to skip many sessions. I had a prof at the U. of Texas that smoked a stinky pipe in his office. I could not go to him for extra help because of it.

    I also remember students smoking in class. It wasn't until the 1970's that the profs would state on the first day of class that the students could not smoke.
  • FairwoodKing
    I think this whole discussion has centered too much about smoking in bars. I haven't been to a bar in years and I really don't give a damn what they do there. My pet peeve is smoking in office buildings, hospitals, and places like that. I remember about 30 years ago when I went to the hospital for surgery. They put me in a semi-private room. My roommate had friends who would come in and start puffing. I finally had to ask to be put in a private room at considerably more cost. I have had several surgeries recently and I am glad that my local hospital doesn't allow the use of tobacco in any form. You can't even chew it.

    Before the smoking ban came into being in Washington, I was subjected to SHS all the time. There was no way I could avoid it. As I said, I avoided bars and smoking restaurants, but I still got bombarded with SHS. Now I am free to breathe fresh air and I love it!
  • Prescott
    It wasn't until the 1970's that the profs would state on the first day of class that the students could not smoke.
    I guess different campuses had different rules. As I said, my uncle went to OSU in the early 70's and he does NOT remember anybody smoking in the lecture halls or the classrooms.
    As I said, I avoided bars and smoking restaurants, but I still got bombarded with SHS.
    I guess we live on different planets. I have never felt that I was bombarded by SHS. If 1/4 of the adult population smokes, bombardment would seem to be a statistical impossibility.
  • FairwoodKing
    Prescott wrote:
    It wasn't until the 1970's that the profs would state on the first day of class that the students could not smoke.
    I guess different campuses had different rules. As I said, my uncle went to OSU in the early 70's and he does NOT remember anybody smoking in the lecture halls or the classrooms.
    As I said, I avoided bars and smoking restaurants, but I still got bombarded with SHS.
    I guess we live on different planets. I have never felt that I was bombarded by SHS. If 1/4 of the adult population smokes, bombardment would seem to be a statistical impossibility.
    It only takes one person smoking to louse up a restaurant. It's not the number of people who smoke, it is where and when.
  • Prescott
    It only takes one person smoking to louse up a restaurant.
    I am sorry you are so sensitive to SHS. I often sat in restaurants that had smoking and non-smoking sections and the smell of tobacco never reached my nostrils. Perhaps, these places had state of the art ventilation systems.