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Some interesting taxation and income figures

  • Footwedge
    Manhattan Buckeye wrote: "Then play by the rules here.... the way I do..... and support your claims with a credible source.

    People that work at McDonald's don't yank down 10K refund checks. Not in Greentree PA nor Podunk West Virginia."

    Why don't you pull up a credible source that they don't? I don't know what happens in Greentree or Podunk, I know what happens with the EITC, from what I understand there is a limit, but it may or may not be mutually exclusive from other credits.

    My client recieved over $6,000 back in funds when she never paid any cent of federal income taxes. I saw her tax forms, and I saw her financial figures, it was the crux of the case. The sum wasn't questioned, not then nor now (the question was her employment). There is likely a limit on what any taxpayer can receive back due to the EITC, there is certainly a limit on what they can receive on child tax credits, or at least I'd hope so. It stlll doesn't take back from the point that some folks get back funds from which they didn't pay taxes in the first place. Again, this isn't news, it is common knowledge.
    The poster that lives 10 minutes from downtown Pittsburgh off the Parkway West made a specific claim. 10K refund check for a McDonalds employee.

    Every time I'm asked to source a claim, I source it...whether it's you or the moderators. (PTowne and LJ) or anybody else.

    And they've called me out plenty of times to do so. I always obliged...every single time.

    I'm not going to spend my time researching a claim that is bogus. That's the other poster's job to do so.
  • Footwedge
    HitsRus wrote: ^^^^even if it's not $10G's...what would be acceptable? $5000? $1000? $500...???


    That lefties would embrace Boat Shoes' recitation of the Democrat's paradigm comes as no surprise.
    He attempts to defeat the premise that "ALL people deserve to pay the least tax possible" by ridiculously reducing the defense budget to a billion dollars and arguing that if you don't pay high taxes, you'll have low government services and defense. Sorry, but if you just accept the status quo as 'the least taxes possible", then the Democrat's onerous position of proposing a new trillion dollar entitlement program in the context of trillion dollar deficits is exposed for what it is.
    Footwedge called it a slap shot from the blue line....that is the truth. That is what a team resorts to when it can't get it in the crease.

    Footwedge also said "But be careful, pragmatic views are not viewed with elevated esteem around here...just sayin."
    Another truth, ....I must conclude after pondering the pragmatism of raising the capital gains tax to be sure 400 rich people are 'taxed fairly'....as well as millions of other middle class Americans investment accounts. It's important to be pragmatic and truthful.

    BoatShoes wrote:
    "God. I don't know why I waste so much time on this stupid place trying to persuade people who will never even budge an inch."
    I feel the same way myself.
    Is it not pragmatic in thinking from a mathematicaLpoint of view that the tax revenues do not equal government expenditures?

    The federal government has grown out of control because Corporate America plus government wanted it that way.

    It is the professional businessmen like yourself and the small businessmen like Belly, and LJ, and at one time, myself, that have felt the wrath of inverse fascist idealism, which has hijacked our system.

    You want to keep more of your money. So would I. So would everybody. But the monster has enveloped us to a point of no return.
  • Footwedge
    And just for you Manhatten Buckeye...your "birdseye view" of your client receiving 6K in a refund is bullshit. No matter how poor, how uneducated, how lazy, or how many qualifying kids she's popped out.

    "The United States federal Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit; it is means tested, and designed to encourage low-income workers and offset the burden of U.S. payroll taxes. For tax year 2009, a claimant with one qualifying child can receive a maximum credit of $3,043. A claimant with two qualifying children can receive a maximum credit of $5,028. The credit is expanded for tax year 2009 and 2010. For claimants with three or more qualifying children, the maximum credit is $5,657."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_Income_Tax_Credit

    What is there to gain by lying on an anonymous blog site?
  • queencitybuckeye
    Footwedge wrote:

    What is there to gain by lying on an anonymous blog site?
    If anyone knows the answer to this, it would be you, as we've caught you dead to rights a number of times.
  • HitsRus
    Footwedge wrote:
    HitsRus wrote: ^^^^even if it's not $10G's...what would be acceptable? $5000? $1000? $500...???


    That lefties would embrace Boat Shoes' recitation of the Democrat's paradigm comes as no surprise.
    He attempts to defeat the premise that "ALL people deserve to pay the least tax possible" by ridiculously reducing the defense budget to a billion dollars and arguing that if you don't pay high taxes, you'll have low government services and defense. Sorry, but if you just accept the status quo as 'the least taxes possible", then the Democrat's onerous position of proposing a new trillion dollar entitlement program in the context of trillion dollar deficits is exposed for what it is.
    Footwedge called it a slap shot from the blue line....that is the truth. That is what a team resorts to when it can't get it in the crease.

    Footwedge also said "But be careful, pragmatic views are not viewed with elevated esteem around here...just sayin."
    Another truth, ....I must conclude after pondering the pragmatism of raising the capital gains tax to be sure 400 rich people are 'taxed fairly'....as well as millions of other middle class Americans investment accounts. It's important to be pragmatic and truthful.

    BoatShoes wrote:
    "God. I don't know why I waste so much time on this stupid place trying to persuade people who will never even budge an inch."
    I feel the same way myself.
    Is it not pragmatic in thinking from a mathematicaLpoint of view that the tax revenues do not equal government expenditures?

    The federal government has grown out of control because Corporate America plus government wanted it that way.

    It is the professional businessmen like yourself and the small businessmen like Belly, and LJ, and at one time, myself, that have felt the wrath of inverse fascist idealism, which has hijacked our system.

    You want to keep more of your money. So would I. So would everybody. But the monster has enveloped us to a point of no return.

    If you are talking about a temporary tax to pay down the deficit or to approach balancing the budget, I'm listening.....and so would almost all fiscal conservatives. But there is nothing pragmatic about new trillion dollar entitlement programs building in irrevocable tax increases while running huge deficits. You are right about the 'monster' and that is what I'm talking about.

    Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
    Fiddling with tax rates but ignoring spending is the same thing.

    ...and that is what is going in Washington, especially on one side of the aisle.
  • majorspark
    Footwedge wrote: And just for you Manhatten Buckeye...your "birdseye view" of your client receiving 6K in a refund is bullshit. No matter how poor, how uneducated, how lazy, or how many qualifying kids she's popped out.

    "The United States federal Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit; it is means tested, and designed to encourage low-income workers and offset the burden of U.S. payroll taxes. For tax year 2009, a claimant with one qualifying child can receive a maximum credit of $3,043. A claimant with two qualifying children can receive a maximum credit of $5,028. The credit is expanded for tax year 2009 and 2010. For claimants with three or more qualifying children, the maximum credit is $5,657."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_Income_Tax_Credit

    What is there to gain by lying on an anonymous blog site?
    Form 8812 the additional child tax credit. This would allow someone not owing federal income tax to still recieve this credit. Those with qualifiying children recieve the $1,000/child tax credit. Lets say you have 3 children and owe $0 federal income tax based on your taxable income. There would be nothing to apply this credit against. The additional child tax credit would allow you to recieve the credit anyway. If my understanding is correct this could be added to the maximum EIC for a possible maximum "refund" of $8,657 (5,657+3,000).
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    "What is there to gain by lying on an anonymous blog site?"

    Well not to impress you, I think you are nuts. I don't have copies of all of her tax forms, I saw the 1040 prepared by Liberty mainly to see what her AGI was since that was a key fact in her housing dispute - I also know they gave her an 'advance' on her refund (another poor choice on her part given the high interest rate). I'm guessimating both her income and credit figures from memory, note I didn't say she got $6,445.23 in credits, I said she got back about $6,500 - the rounding to most sane people is evidence that it is an estimate. Even your wikipedia shows an amount not far from that figure. And that is just the EITC, THERE ARE OTHER TAX CREDITS THAT PEOPLE RECEIVE. Again, I didn't do her taxes. I just saw what was calculated by her preparer and it was about $6,500.

    At any rate, the point is there are people that not only not pay taxes, but also get money back when they file, i.e. they have a NEGATIVE tax burden. This has never been a secret.
  • general94
    Manhattan Buckeye wrote: "What is there to gain by lying on an anonymous blog site?"

    Well not to impress you, I think you are nuts. I don't have copies of all of her tax forms, I saw the 1040 prepared by Liberty mainly to see what her AGI was since that was a key fact in her housing dispute - I also know they gave her an 'advance' on her refund (another poor choice on her part given the high interest rate). I'm guessimating both her income and credit figures from memory, note I didn't say she got $6,445.23 in credits, I said she got back about $6,500 - the rounding to most sane people is evidence that it is an estimate. Even your wikipedia shows an amount not far from that figure. And that is just the EITC, THERE ARE OTHER TAX CREDITS THAT PEOPLE RECEIVE. Again, I didn't do her taxes. I just saw what was calculated by her preparer and it was about $6,500.
    There is also the "making work pay" tax credit this year." It was included in Obama's porkulus package. I assume this taxpayer would qualify for it too.
    Some can't handle the truth I guess, or they like to turn a blind eye and continue the chirade, because if too many people realize just how out of whack the U.S. tax code is, then the leftist agenda is put in jeopardy. Typical tactic of the left. Someone brings up an example or situation that does not fit their world view, and that person is immediately labeled a liar.
  • ManO'War
    Hey Footwedge, send me a PM with your cell number, and I will take a pic tomorrow (I'm off today) of the checks (blacking out personal info) and send it to you...if you state that you will come on here and admit you don't know jack shit.
  • jmog
    Footwedge wrote: And just for you Manhatten Buckeye...your "birdseye view" of your client receiving 6K in a refund is bullshit. No matter how poor, how uneducated, how lazy, or how many qualifying kids she's popped out.

    "The United States federal Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit; it is means tested, and designed to encourage low-income workers and offset the burden of U.S. payroll taxes. For tax year 2009, a claimant with one qualifying child can receive a maximum credit of $3,043. A claimant with two qualifying children can receive a maximum credit of $5,028. The credit is expanded for tax year 2009 and 2010. For claimants with three or more qualifying children, the maximum credit is $5,657."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_Income_Tax_Credit

    What is there to gain by lying on an anonymous blog site?
    What do you gain by being retarded and a jerk on an anonymous blog site?

    EIC is NOT the only credit out there for the poor.

    I am first hand experience on this.

    There was a year I was laid off and I went back to college to get my master's instead of going right back to work.

    It took two years.

    Those two years of tax returns my wife and I probably only combined for $30k gross, with 2 kids.

    After regular deductions we owed the government $0, so we got back everything we paid in.

    We also got a number of tax CREDITS on top of return. So yes, we not only got all of our money back, but we got paid more on top of it.

    I'll put it this way, on average it was between double and triple what we had paid in.

    So, if we had paid in $1000 in federal taxes, we got back that $1000 and between $2000 and $3000 more for a total that was typically between $3k and $4k.

    The number of additional credits available has only gone up in the years since I was in grad school, so I could easily see the numbers they have been reported as true.

    Between EIC, child credits, educational credits, etc those two years I got back much more than I paid in.
  • BCSbunk
    Footwedge wrote:
    ManO'War wrote: How about the first thing we do is stop giving "Income Tax Refunds" to people who barely pay any income tax, or none at all.

    I've witnessed people cashing income tax refunds this year of $8,000 to $10,000, and they work at places like McDonalds.

    You should never get back more than you put in.
    People that live in Pittsburgh sure love to exxagerate. A 10K refund check from a McDonald's employee?

    That's a joke and you know it. If you post that sort of wacko shit, you should be forced to link a proof source. Now I know a little about the EITC from reading about it. But really, this one here is quite a whopper.

    I think you were the guy I argued with on the other huddle. Someone was complaining about the welfare queens bringing in their blackberries to your bank with fancy hair dos and manicured nails, while cashing in their $800 dollar welfare checks.

    It's all bullshit. My son's in his senior year at College and has worked at Giant Eagle during seasonal breaks as a check out line cashier. In 2 years, he has never seen as much as one food stamp customer with pretty clothes or a fancy cell phone.

    Not even one time.
    Well lets do the math when someone says a McDonald's employee does that mean they work at on of the restaurants or a corporate branch? Mcdonalds does have high paying positions, however Man O War did not mention what position that person actually holds. Is it a computer programmer for the resturants Etc?

    If it is a burger flipper we can do some math There is no way that person makes more than $10 an hour and I doubt highly that much in PA.

    So if it is a burger flipper they must have marked on their w-4 (where it asked if you would like extra money taken out.) Practically all their paycheck.

    It is feasible in this situation. The person working at McDonald's has a spouse that makes good money. ( enough to maintain their household) then the MCd's worker fills out the w-4 with most of the money going to taxes so they recieved basically no check every week they work.

    It is a way to save money for a vacation every year for the undisciplined or the very stupid, but it is feasible in a very rare occurance.
  • ManO'War
    She works at the drive thru. She has at least 5 kids. Don't know too much else about her.

    Like I said, PM me your cell phone and I'll send a pic.

    You guys are either naive or need to get out more.

    And why would I lie?!?!?

    I have also seen a lot of RAL checks that are in the $7,000 dollar and up range, and they are the checks after the fees have been taken out.
  • ManO'War
    BCSbunk wrote:
    Footwedge wrote:
    ManO'War wrote: How about the first thing we do is stop giving "Income Tax Refunds" to people who barely pay any income tax, or none at all.

    I've witnessed people cashing income tax refunds this year of $8,000 to $10,000, and they work at places like McDonalds.

    You should never get back more than you put in.
    People that live in Pittsburgh sure love to exxagerate. A 10K refund check from a McDonald's employee?

    That's a joke and you know it. If you post that sort of wacko shit, you should be forced to link a proof source. Now I know a little about the EITC from reading about it. But really, this one here is quite a whopper.

    I think you were the guy I argued with on the other huddle. Someone was complaining about the welfare queens bringing in their blackberries to your bank with fancy hair dos and manicured nails, while cashing in their $800 dollar welfare checks.

    It's all bullshit. My son's in his senior year at College and has worked at Giant Eagle during seasonal breaks as a check out line cashier. In 2 years, he has never seen as much as one food stamp customer with pretty clothes or a fancy cell phone.

    Not even one time.
    Well lets do the math when someone says a McDonald's employee does that mean they work at on of the restaurants or a corporate branch? Mcdonalds does have high paying positions, however Man O War did not mention what position that person actually holds. Is it a computer programmer for the resturants Etc?

    If it is a burger flipper we can do some math There is no way that person makes more than $10 an hour and I doubt highly that much in PA.

    So if it is a burger flipper they must have marked on their w-4 (where it asked if you would like extra money taken out.) Practically all their paycheck.

    It is feasible in this situation. The person working at McDonald's has a spouse that makes good money. ( enough to maintain their household) then the MCd's worker fills out the w-4 with most of the money going to taxes so they recieved basically no check every week they work.

    It is a way to save money for a vacation every year for the undisciplined or the very stupid, but it is feasible in a very rare occurance.
    I don't think you are getting it. You don't have to put that much in to get that much back...that's the whole point of this debate. She probably put in a few hundred dollars in federal taxes for the year, but is getting back 10 grand.
  • BCSbunk
    ManO'War wrote:
    BCSbunk wrote:
    Footwedge wrote:
    ManO'War wrote: How about the first thing we do is stop giving "Income Tax Refunds" to people who barely pay any income tax, or none at all.

    I've witnessed people cashing income tax refunds this year of $8,000 to $10,000, and they work at places like McDonalds.

    You should never get back more than you put in.
    People that live in Pittsburgh sure love to exxagerate. A 10K refund check from a McDonald's employee?

    That's a joke and you know it. If you post that sort of wacko shit, you should be forced to link a proof source. Now I know a little about the EITC from reading about it. But really, this one here is quite a whopper.

    I think you were the guy I argued with on the other huddle. Someone was complaining about the welfare queens bringing in their blackberries to your bank with fancy hair dos and manicured nails, while cashing in their $800 dollar welfare checks.

    It's all bullshit. My son's in his senior year at College and has worked at Giant Eagle during seasonal breaks as a check out line cashier. In 2 years, he has never seen as much as one food stamp customer with pretty clothes or a fancy cell phone.

    Not even one time.
    Well lets do the math when someone says a McDonald's employee does that mean they work at on of the restaurants or a corporate branch? Mcdonalds does have high paying positions, however Man O War did not mention what position that person actually holds. Is it a computer programmer for the resturants Etc?

    If it is a burger flipper we can do some math There is no way that person makes more than $10 an hour and I doubt highly that much in PA.

    So if it is a burger flipper they must have marked on their w-4 (where it asked if you would like extra money taken out.) Practically all their paycheck.

    It is feasible in this situation. The person working at McDonald's has a spouse that makes good money. ( enough to maintain their household) then the MCd's worker fills out the w-4 with most of the money going to taxes so they recieved basically no check every week they work.

    It is a way to save money for a vacation every year for the undisciplined or the very stupid, but it is feasible in a very rare occurance.
    I don't think you are getting it. You don't have to put that much in to get that much back...that's the whole point of this debate. She probably put in a few hundred dollars in federal taxes for the year, but is getting back 10 grand.
    I am very skeptical of this. Next wed I will see my friend who is an accountant and up on this sort of thing. I will see if someone can pay a few hundred dollars in taxes and get 10 grand back.
  • BCSbunk
    ManO'War wrote:
    BCSbunk wrote:
    Footwedge wrote:
    ManO'War wrote: How about the first thing we do is stop giving "Income Tax Refunds" to people who barely pay any income tax, or none at all.

    I've witnessed people cashing income tax refunds this year of $8,000 to $10,000, and they work at places like McDonalds.

    You should never get back more than you put in.
    People that live in Pittsburgh sure love to exxagerate. A 10K refund check from a McDonald's employee?

    That's a joke and you know it. If you post that sort of wacko shit, you should be forced to link a proof source. Now I know a little about the EITC from reading about it. But really, this one here is quite a whopper.

    I think you were the guy I argued with on the other huddle. Someone was complaining about the welfare queens bringing in their blackberries to your bank with fancy hair dos and manicured nails, while cashing in their $800 dollar welfare checks.

    It's all bullshit. My son's in his senior year at College and has worked at Giant Eagle during seasonal breaks as a check out line cashier. In 2 years, he has never seen as much as one food stamp customer with pretty clothes or a fancy cell phone.

    Not even one time.
    Well lets do the math when someone says a McDonald's employee does that mean they work at on of the restaurants or a corporate branch? Mcdonalds does have high paying positions, however Man O War did not mention what position that person actually holds. Is it a computer programmer for the resturants Etc?

    If it is a burger flipper we can do some math There is no way that person makes more than $10 an hour and I doubt highly that much in PA.

    So if it is a burger flipper they must have marked on their w-4 (where it asked if you would like extra money taken out.) Practically all their paycheck.

    It is feasible in this situation. The person working at McDonald's has a spouse that makes good money. ( enough to maintain their household) then the MCd's worker fills out the w-4 with most of the money going to taxes so they recieved basically no check every week they work.

    It is a way to save money for a vacation every year for the undisciplined or the very stupid, but it is feasible in a very rare occurance.
    I don't think you are getting it. You don't have to put that much in to get that much back...that's the whole point of this debate. She probably put in a few hundred dollars in federal taxes for the year, but is getting back 10 grand.
    Perhaps she neglected to tell you she just bought a house this year? There are tax credits for buying homes right now? Which is MUCH MUCH different than just a refund check from your employee wages which is what is being claimed here.
  • ManO'War
    I am still waiting for PMs from the doubters, but as usual, when it is put up or shut up, the crickets come out.
  • queencitybuckeye
    ManO'War wrote: I am still waiting for PMs from the doubters, but as usual, when it is put up or shut up, the crickets come out.
    Your correspondent will nitpick to find some small area where he might be technically correct rather than admit he's wrong on substance, which pretty much everyone on the thread clearly sees.
  • ManO'War
    It's hard to argue when right on the check it says "tax refund".... I don't care where the deductions came from.
  • cbus4life
    If it is as simple as only having paid $200 in taxes and getting back $10,000, without any other tax credit or the like, then it is nearly impossible. My mother is a CPA, i mentioned this too her on the phone. If all she does is work at a fast food place, and that is it, and simply paid taxes on wages earned, and had no other credits and the like, no way in hell did she get $10,000 back.

    I could see 2-3k, maybe, with various credits, but there is a lot more to it than you're implying, IMO. Again, having talked to accountants, this would have to be a VERY extreme case for her to be getting that much back,
  • ManO'War
    There must be a whole lot of rare cases, since I have seen 50+ checks of $8,000 or more this tax season.

    Or maybe Jackson Hewitt and HR Block don't know as much as your mom.
  • cbus4life
    Could be. And, i don't deny that those checks exist, she was just saying that it would only be very rare if for some reason she didn't have a lot of other tax credits, or that it was only her wages, etc..
  • ManO'War
    The credit doesn't matter...thats the whole point...that people are getting a lot more back than they put in, no matter the reason.
  • cbus4life
    Fair enough.

    I'm not going to pretend to know much about the tax code...all i know is that i won't be getting $10,000 back. :(

    Thanks for the info, lots to ponder, that is for sure.
  • majorspark
    cbus4life wrote: Fair enough.

    I'm not going to pretend to know much about the tax code...all i know is that i won't be getting $10,000 back. :(

    Thanks for the info, lots to ponder, that is for sure.
    You get a $1,000 per child. Being it is March you better get busy if want get that thousand for your 2010 taxes.
  • cbus4life
    Damn it.

    But, i'm probably going to head down to Haiti and try to get 10 orphans up here asap, wish me luck!