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Should the United States Offer Haiti and other Carribean nations statehood?

  • ptown_trojans_1
    No. Now, maybe a territory like Puerto Rico or Guam. But, not statehood. I'm not sure they would even want to be U.S. states as Puerto Rico is not yelling to become one.
  • queencitybuckeye
    If my neighbor's house burned down, I'd put them up for a few nights without feeling the need to adopt them.
  • Con_Alma
    Mabe we could consider adding the District of Columbia as a State.
  • chs71
    Good lord, no.
  • chs71
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote: No. Now, maybe a territory like Puerto Rico or Guam. But, not statehood. I'm not sure they would even want to be U.S. states as Puerto Rico is not yelling to become one.
    Puerto Rico is a Commonwealth of the USA, not a Territory.
  • chs71
    Footwedge wrote: Haiti is no use to the empire. No natural gas, no oil, and very, very little food. If they had anything of value, we would have blamed then for 9-11 and democratized their ass by now.
    Actually Haiti exports clothing, vegetable oils, cocoa, mangoes and coffee. 71% of it to the USA.
  • Footwedge
    chs71 wrote:
    Footwedge wrote: Haiti is no use to the empire. No natural gas, no oil, and very, very little food. If they had anything of value, we would have blamed then for 9-11 and democratized their ass by now.
    Actually Haiti exports clothing, vegetable oils, cocoa, mangoes and coffee. 71% of it to the USA.
    But like the US, they are a huge debtor nation...in that their imports far exceed their exports.

    Unlike the US, they have begged off the national debt from it's creditors....a lesson that the US could learn from.
  • majorspark
    Footwedge wrote:
    chs71 wrote:
    Footwedge wrote: Haiti is no use to the empire. No natural gas, no oil, and very, very little food. If they had anything of value, we would have blamed then for 9-11 and democratized their ass by now.
    Actually Haiti exports clothing, vegetable oils, cocoa, mangoes and coffee. 71% of it to the USA.
    But like the US, they are a huge debtor nation...in that their imports far exceed their exports.

    Unlike the US, they have begged off the national debt from it's creditors....a lesson that the US could learn from.
    Well then, they will be a perfect addition to the union.
  • chs71
    Footwedge wrote: Unlike the US, they have begged off the national debt from it's creditors....a lesson that the US could learn from.
    So we should copy Haiti's success?
  • gut
    Yeah, after Obama bankrupts the country we could go to Haiti for a handout :)
  • ajrian
    gut wrote: Yeah, after Obama bankrupts the country we could go to Haiti for a handout :)
    Obama won't get the chance - Bush already bankrupted the country
  • believer
    ajrian wrote:Obama won't get the chance - Bush already bankrupted the country.
    Oh goody. Another liberal on Free Huddle. Welcome aboard.
  • CenterBHSFan
    This country started going financially downhill long before Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc.

    I get sick of that same ole same ole name-blame game.

    Ultimately, it's OUR fault for alot of reasons.

    - instant gratification
    - complacency
    - the feel good warmies
    - voting for the same guttersnipes over and over again
    - passing the buck
    - not wanting to let go of party ideologies - it's like a safety blanket

    We will never change the way DC operates until we change how we want to prioritize NECESSITIES
  • Footwedge
    majorspark wrote:
    Footwedge wrote:
    chs71 wrote:
    Footwedge wrote: Haiti is no use to the empire. No natural gas, no oil, and very, very little food. If they had anything of value, we would have blamed then for 9-11 and democratized their ass by now.
    Actually Haiti exports clothing, vegetable oils, cocoa, mangoes and coffee. 71% of it to the USA.
    But like the US, they are a huge debtor nation...in that their imports far exceed their exports.

    Unlike the US, they have begged off the national debt from it's creditors....a lesson that the US could learn from.
    Well then, they will be a perfect addition to the union.
    Why not...we've recently annexed Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan will probable be next.

    We all remember the fear that the spread communism would ruin the world...the domino effect. Apparently, we have become the enemy. But our empire has no clothes any more.
  • Footwedge
    believer wrote:
    ajrian wrote:Obama won't get the chance - Bush already bankrupted the country.
    Oh goody. Another liberal on Free Huddle. Welcome aboard.
    One has to be a liberal in stating that the country went bankrupt under Bush?

    Might want to check the dates whenever the TARP money went flying out the window.
  • Footwedge
    chs71 wrote:
    Footwedge wrote: Unlike the US, they have begged off the national debt from it's creditors....a lesson that the US could learn from.
    So we should copy Haiti's success?
    Whether you agree with the concept or not, eventually the US will have to go the route of Haiti and repudiate a large portion of the national debt. From a purely mathematical stand point, it is inevitable.

    People that don't agree have blinders on.
  • Gobuckeyes1
    majorspark wrote:
    Gobuckeyes1 wrote:
    BoatShoes wrote:Maybe instead of thinking "More poor people on welfare", think, "more people who could be given the opportunity to live the American Dream and be guaranteed the right to life and liberty and a fighting chance to pursue happiness"
    It would be nice if people thought like that...unfortunately many are programmed to see the worst in people and not the best.

    It's an interesting question...Haiti is basically going to be starting from scratch once they get this mess cleaned up. The tourism angle makes me wonder if investing money there would eventually pay off, given they would become a U.S. state or territory to begin with.
    I thought only the neocons thought like this. Who would have thought BoatShoes and Gobuckeyes1 were really dreaded neocons.
    To clarify, my point is that I hate seeing people dismiss an entire country as "more poor people on welfare". I'm sure the majority of Haitian people would embrace the opportunity to work and improve their lives if given a chance as Americans.

    When I mention whether the investment there would "pay off", the benefit would be mutual...Haiti becomes a productive and prosperous member of our country, and we rebuild their infrastructure and provide an economic sector (tourism) that can improve the lives of many of the citizens. I would not be in favor of getting involved in Haiti unless we can somehow improve the lives of it's citizens.

    Sorry I didn't elaborate...also, sorry to disappoint. No "neocon" here... :)
  • majorspark
    How long before they start shooting at us. Hugo Chavez is already calling it a US invasion.
  • CinciX12
    majorspark wrote: How long before they start shooting at us. Hugo Chavez is already calling it a US invasion.
    Exactly why we should have just not helped Haiti at all.

    We have our own problems, and everyone hates us anyway. Why bother?
  • queencitybuckeye
    CinciX12 wrote: We have our own problems,
    True, but none quite so urgent.
    and everyone hates us anyway.
    Not remotely true
    Why bother?
    Because it's the right thing to do?
  • CinciX12
    I think that individual people have the right to donate money to the cause and the Red Cross should help. Just not the government.
  • BoatShoes
    CinciX12 wrote: I think that individual people have the right to donate money to the cause and the Red Cross should help. Just not the government.
    You think the military that we spent 1 trillion dollars on this year ought to sit idly by?

    Perhaps list some problems in America that you think common morality and/or urgency would require swifter and greater attention from our government
  • dwccrew
    BoatShoes wrote: Eh, I was hoping at least one person would take the other side...but I suppose I will.

    1. Perhaps we could allow for temporarily lower labor standards in Haiti and incentivize business' who currently relocate overseas to skirt labor laws could relocate to Haiti to encourage economic development and the United States would have first dibs on Tax dollars. Even minimal labor laws would be better than what are used in developing countries outside the sovereignty of the United States.

    Also, perhaps gradually bring them into social programs, etc. over time so as to not greatly burden them.
    So you want to allow them into the US as a state and then have lower labor laws, even if it is temporary, there? Yes, that is very constitutional.

    BoatShoes wrote: 2. We have a new group of people who would be grateful to be a part of the United States and have a strong sense of Nationalism. When I was in Haiti, all the kids talked about was wishing they could come to America and live in peace and freedom and opportunity. We could bring America to them and we would have a new demographic of hard working Americans unlike the current generations growing up watching Cribs and Sweet 16.

    We'd also have fresh bodies who could serve in the military.
    #1, these people would probably still feel more like Haitians than US citizens. #2, I am not so sure they would work well in the military. I am not sure what the percentage of Haitians that speak english is, but it can't be that high. They would need to learn the language to serve in the military.
    BoatShoes wrote: 3. The United States has been committing aid there for years but with no stake to get anything back. It would make much more sense to invest in the country with the hopes of future tax dollars coming from that investment.
    Should every country we send aid to be considered for statehood? There would be over 100 of them. It would also be an even bigger financial burden. The government shouldn't be involved in investing to seek larger tax revenues, it should be provate businesses investing.
    BoatShoes wrote: 4. Maybe instead of thinking "More poor people on welfare", think, "more people who could be given the opportunity to live the American Dream and be guaranteed the right to life and liberty and a fighting chance to pursue happiness"
    It's nice to say and think, but logically and in reality, this is nothing but a dream and you know it.
    BoatShoes wrote: I don't necessarily take these positions; I just thought it the answers aren't so clear cut as the previous posters have laid out.

    For instance, in the basic small moral hypothetical...if some is crushed under a building, most people it seems, would give little care about debt or ruining their fancy clothes or car, or losing money to save that person. If this intuitively seems the moral action, why not the same conviction in the present case.
    I understand you are playing devil's advocate, but in this case, there is no positives to adding them to the US, if you ask me.
    Glory Days wrote:
    because as a whole, we have become a selfish country. we cant even stick it out in afghanistan and iraq to give people freedom, there is no way americans would give haiti or any of those other countries a chance.
    Can't stick it out in Afghanistan or Iraq? How long must we be there? Wars and fighting have been going on there for close to two milleniums, should we ust stick it out even though no real progress is being made?

    It isn't our job to give people of other countries their freedom, that is their own fight, as it was ours in 1776.
    LJ wrote:
    rookie_j70 wrote: The U.S. needs to start dropping states. Michigan is a good start.
    Only after Toledo is given to them as a parting gift.
    Hey man, lay off Toledo. I live there and I don't want to be apart of Michigan, I'd rather be apart of Haiti! :D
  • CinciX12
    BoatShoes wrote:
    CinciX12 wrote: I think that individual people have the right to donate money to the cause and the Red Cross should help. Just not the government.
    You think the military that we spent 1 trillion dollars on this year ought to sit idly by?

    Perhaps list some problems in America that you think common morality and/or urgency would require swifter and greater attention from our government
    Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq
    The economy
    The housing market
    Numerous others

    These affect people in OUR country. And sadly we need all the money we can get to fix these problems. That $1,000,000,000 we spent on the military was because we are in 2 wars draining money out of us, not to help Haiti.
  • captain_obvious
    Con_Alma wrote: Mabe we could consider adding the District of Columbia as a State.
    Trade DC and everyone in it for Haiti straight up. I'd rather take care of the Hatians than the dirt bags in DC.