Christian Groups Labeled as Extremists by the Army?

• jmog

  Yeah, nothing to see here, I'm sure this won't get reported anywhere but Fox.
  
  The army was training soldiers to label evangelical Christian groups as extremists and 'hate groups'.
  
  If they were talking about the Westboro Baptist nutjobs I would have been fine with it. However, they are listing places like the Family Research Council, Catholics, Evangelical Christians, American Family Association, etc.
  
  I'm sure there is nothing to see here though right? Water off the back of the administration once again?
• sleeper

  

  I wouldn't label Christian groups as hate groups or even extremists. I'd prefer something along the lines of "irrational groups" or "groups who don't understand logic", but hate groups? No.
• jmog

  sleeper;1523432 wrote:I wouldn't label Christian groups as hate groups or even extremists. I'd prefer something along the lines of "irrational groups" or "groups who don't understand logic", but hate groups? No.

  I knew you'd chime in with something utterly illogical. Thanks for not disappointing me.
  
  Carry on!
• Belly35

  

  sleeper;1523432 wrote:I wouldn't label Christian groups as hate groups or even extremists. I'd prefer something along the lines of "irrational groups" or "groups who don't understand logic", but hate groups? No.

  
  I’m a Christian I use logic every day, as for irrational I rationalize everything just before I pull the trigger
• queencitybuckeye

  The extreme edges of the Christian faith are every bit as wackadoodle as the Islamic extremists that we use to spew hate toward the mainstream majority.
• HitsRus

  

  ^^see the OP...jmog said they were talking about mainstream groups not just wackjob Westboro or fanatic fringe.
• believer

  

  jmog;1523428 wrote:Yeah, nothing to see here, I'm sure this won't get reported anywhere but Fox.
  
  The army was training soldiers to label evangelical Christian groups as extremists and 'hate groups'.
  
  If they were talking about the Westboro Baptist nutjobs I would have been fine with it. However, they are listing places like the Family Research Council, Catholics, Evangelical Christians, American Family Association, etc.
  
  I'm sure there is nothing to see here though right? Water off the back of the administration once again?

  Is there any question about it?
• BoatShoes

  Jmog didn't provide the link.
  
  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/24/exclusive-army-halts-training-program-that-labeled-christians-as-extremists/
  
  From the article:
  

  The Army repeatedly told me the briefings were isolated incidents where instructors used materials that were not approved by the military.
  McHugh said the instructors used material that is “inaccurate, objectionable and otherwise inconsistent with current Army policy.
  
  
  So where did the Army instructors get their talking points?
  “None of these slides were produced by the Army, but by soldiers who included information found during an Internet search,” Patterson told me.

  Unsurprisingly, none of these so-called briefings on Christian Extremists were part of organized Army training. What you have probably is an individual like Sleeper choosing their own material for these presentations.
  
  So no, it does not appear as if Obongo ordered the Army to brief soldiers on the horrors of Christian Evangelical Extremism.
• superman

  queencitybuckeye;1523453 wrote:The extreme edges of the Christian faith are every bit as wackadoodle as the Islamic extremists that we use to spew hate toward the mainstream majority.

  Serious question, when was the last time Christians murdered thousands of innocents in the name of Christ?
• ernest_t_bass

  

  BoatShoes;1523464 wrote:Unsurprisingly, none of these so-called briefings on Christian Extremists were part of organized Army training.

  Because, if they were, they'd obviously admit it, right? I mean, they are honest about everything, right?
  
  "Oh, they said it's a farce? Carry on, then."
• queencitybuckeye

  superman;1523723 wrote:Serious question, when was the last time Christians murdered thousands of innocents in the name of Christ?

  Every time we go to war in the Middle East. We just pretend religion isn't a factor.
• jmog

  queencitybuckeye;1523725 wrote:Every time we go to war in the Middle East. We just pretend religion isn't a factor.

  Wrong, we pretend oil isn't a factor when it is so obvious that it is.
  
  We don't go there because we are "Christians" to kill the evil "Muslims". Its mostly about oil, partially about terrorists.
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1523766 wrote:Wrong, we pretend oil isn't a factor when it is so obvious that it is.
  
  We don't go there because we are "Christians" to kill the evil "Muslims". Its mostly about oil, partially about terrorists.

  A bit ethnocentric. We are only one side of the perspective; they certainly think its about Christians killing Muslims.
• superman

  queencitybuckeye;1523725 wrote:Every time we go to war in the Middle East. We just pretend religion isn't a factor.

  Pretty sure we were attacked first in the case of Afghanistan.
• jmog

  sleeper;1523770 wrote:A bit ethnocentric. We are only one side of the perspective; they certainly think its about Christians killing Muslims.

  That's only because on their side, they think of it as Muslims killing Christians when things like 9/11 happens. So when we fight back they miss perceive it as Christians fighting Muslims when anyone with a decent geopolitical viewpoint knows we mostly fight in the ME due to oil.
  
  If that oil didn't exist we probably wouldn't care much if they were fighting each other and dictators were using chemical weapons on their own people.
• queencitybuckeye

  superman;1523822 wrote:Pretty sure we were attacked first in the case of Afghanistan.

  Didn't say we weren't, just that it's foolish to pretend that religion had nothing to do with it. Would we have done the same had the terrorists come from a predominately Christian country?
• cruiser_96

  

  queencitybuckeye;1523831 wrote:Didn't say we weren't, just that it's foolish to pretend that religion had nothing to do with it. Would we have done the same had the terrorists come from a predominately Christian country?

  I would hope yes, but then again, I guess we'll wait for that to occur in order to answer definitively.
• Heretic

  

  jmog;1523766 wrote:Wrong, we pretend oil isn't a factor when it is so obvious that it is.
  
  We don't go there because we are "Christians" to kill the evil "Muslims". Its mostly about oil, partially about terrorists.

  Didn't W. Bush make comments along the line of it being a holy war when we went to Iraq after 9/11 or at the very least, at least regularly use religious-themed words (like Crusade) when talking about us versus the Middle East? While it may have been a smoke screen to make it look less about oil and more about ideology, the sentiment at least was there to some degree.
• jmog

  Heretic;1523837 wrote:Didn't W. Bush make comments along the line of it being a holy war when we went to Iraq after 9/11 or at the very least, at least regularly use religious-themed words (like Crusade) when talking about us versus the Middle East? While it may have been a smoke screen to make it look less about oil and more about ideology, the sentiment at least was there to some degree.

  Maybe he did, if he called it a 'holy war' could you please provide a link to the quote? I'd love to read it, but I don't remember such comments.
• Heretic

  

  jmog;1523844 wrote:Maybe he did, if he called it a 'holy war' could you please provide a link to the quote? I'd love to read it, but I don't remember such comments.

  That's the thing. I did a brief search where I found that he used religious-themed words, but didn't immediately see which ones (other than Crusade) that he used, so I wasn't sure (other than faint recollections of stuff that happened a bit over a decade ago) if he actually used that term or if it was just attributed to him by people insinuating that because of a "he said this, he meant that" sort of thing that seems to happen all the time when a president officially speaks on a subject. And was hoping someone knew/remembered the exact words.
  
  In other words, I was sort of "ETB-ing" my way through things, hoping someone does the online research I'm too lazy to bother with at this time.
• Heretic

  

  Ah, after doing some research, it seems like his comments may or may not actually be true. The actual quote was:
  
  “God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.”
  
  However, that quote was by the Palestinian prime minister allegedly quoting Bush, so there's not any definite proof that he actually said it or whether it was that guy manipulating his words to make it look like he was turning it into a holy war. Of which the latter is the safer bet.
• jmog

  Heretic;1523854 wrote:Ah, after doing some research, it seems like his comments may or may not actually be true. The actual quote was:
  
  “God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.”
  
  However, that quote was by the Palestinian prime minister allegedly quoting Bush, so there's not any definite proof that he actually said it or whether it was that guy manipulating his words to make it look like he was turning it into a holy war. Of which the latter is the safer bet.

  So long story short, no link quoting Bush?
• Heretic

  

  jmog;1523859 wrote:So long story short, no link quoting Bush?

  In five minutes, I just found a second-hand attributed quote to him, so probably not, as you'd think an actual attributed quote would be very easy. At least in some places, that second-hand attributed quote was passed off as the real thing, I'd guess, since I did have a vague memory of it. But in Divisive-Land, that's pretty much par for the course.
• believer

  

  queencitybuckeye;1523831 wrote:Didn't say we weren't, just that it's foolish to pretend that religion had nothing to do with it. Would we have done the same had the terrorists come from a predominately Christian country?

  No because Christians wouldn't have hijacked airliners, killed their crews, and flown those Boeing aircraft full of innocent people at 600 MPH into skyscrapers full of thousands of innocent people in the name of Christ.
  
  Religion, however, DID have something to do with it. Radical Islam trained a couple of dozen men to commit suicide in the name of Allah.
  
  Huge difference.
• queencitybuckeye

  believer;1523879 wrote:No because Christians wouldn't have hijacked airliners, killed their crews, and flown those Boeing aircraft full of innocent people at 600 MPH into skyscrapers full of thousands of innocent people in the name of Christ.
  

  Right, Christians have never murdered thousands in the name of God. Keep pretending that and do your little superior dance.
  
  Does Norway come to mind? Those sick bastards have exactly the same relationship to "real" Christians that the 9/11 terrorists have to "real" Muslims. Exactly. The. Same.