Really, Janet?

• ptown_trojans_1

  

  believer wrote:
  "Fell through the cracks"? Really?
  
  C'mon, Ptown. Are you so close to the inner circle to fail to see that - small terrorist potatoes or not - this KNOWN Islamic-radical not only made it on board the flight in the first place but was able to carry on the materials necessary to create an explosive device?
  
  In the meantime I would bet the ranch that airport security confiscated all the 6 oz. water bottles and switchblades from the little old ladies and children before THEY boarded.
  
  The system worked?
  
  What would you have labeled this situation had this moronic Islamic radical been successful on detonating the device and killed a couple of dozen people with his "firecracker"? Would that qualify as "big time" or have we decided that flying airliners into skyscrapers sets the terrorist bar?
  
  What about Fort Hood? Is that not a big deal?
  
  In my naive right-wing narrow-minded conservative world, ANY Islamic radical who attacks us here or abroad is big time regardless of how many people are killed or injured.
  
  The sooner the so-called "moderates" and the anti-war left get their collective heads out of the Middle East sand and realize that radical Islam is at war with the Great Satan, the sooner we'll defeat this insanity.
  
  You would think that Beirut, the USS Cole, and at least 9/11 would make that clear.
  
  Appeasement foreign policy is and always will be viewed by politically and religiously brainwashed radicals as a sign of weakness.
  
  This is precisely why liberals - like Janet Napolitano being "in charge" of security - don't give me tons of warm fuzzies.

  1. The system is split between prevention (which failed big time, yes) and the response side. While the Sec. did backtrack I'll still say the response system worked. There was no panic, the crew and passengers acted the right way, the FAA and DHS responded the right way in coordinating the rest of the flights and ensured there were no other events. Remember, after 9/11 we had no idea what was going on. Once this occurred, we knew exactly what was going on and how to respond. That system worked.
  
  The prevention system failed. Again, the prevention system failed.
  
  Also, yes I hate the airline screening myself. I think they are pointless. Let me say a third time, I think the airline screening processes are awful and not needed. But, that is different than the response system. That is part of the failed prevention system.
  
  Again, in terms of scale, 1000>12. I mean big scale, I mean large multiple bombings that are coordinated and complex. (Think al Qaeda in Iraq muliple bombings) I also mean WMD and other highly coordinated events. One guy that may kill 12 people is small and is nearly impossible to stop. Just ask Israel.
  
  That means it is not a big deal, it just means that in terms of scale and complexities, it is small. Plus, the "bomb" was poorly made and did not create "chatter" which usually is a sign of a large attack.
  
  I do not have my head in the sand, but know that all the resources in the world cannot stop radical Islam. Force alone does not win. Again, ask Israel. They have been trying to use force since 1967 and have failed miserably in stopping and squashing radical Islam. I know that there is a serious threat and want to destroy it, but I also know things are very complex.
  
  Beirut? As in the civil war and U.S. involved and the bombings by Hezbollah. I won't go into that but will say that the Lebanese civil war was one of the most complex civil wars in human history.
  
  The USS Cole and 9/11 were highly coordinated events that created chatter. Very different from this event.
  
  Fort Hood, an act of terrorism, but not a "big event" and is nearly impossible to stop. Shit happens, it is sad, but sometimes it is impossible to see all the signs and say, look we need to stop this guy. This isn't the movies. It is hard, complex and difficult work. Think about as you need to put a puzzle together, but you only have half the pieces and the puzzle is upside down where you cannot see the images.
  
  You may feel uneasy, but I feel fine with smart, hardworking people doing the dirty work keeping this country safe.
• HitsRus

  

  I agree that you can stop 99.9% of the attacks....and that 1000th one that gets through is not a sign that the sysytem is broken or that there are major flaws. I could not care less about the politics involved with JNap...just tell the truth and don't spin it.
  
  
  eers wrote:
  "I'm not saying he didn't aspire to be a terrorist. I'm saying the government 100% knew of this man and didn't really want to stop him because it was an easy win. "
  
  So let me get this straight...you think the government is so good at what they do, that they purposely let a guy get on a plane with a bomb they knew would fail, just so they could create a political diversion that they really didn't need.......yesirreee.
• eersandbeers

  HitsRus wrote:
  eers wrote:
  "I'm not saying he didn't aspire to be a terrorist. I'm saying the government 100% knew of this man and didn't really want to stop him because it was an easy win. "
  
  So let me get this straight...you think the government is so good at what they do, that they purposely let a guy get on a plane with a bomb they knew would fail, just so they could create a political diversion that they really didn't need.......yesirreee.

  I can't even take a water bottle on a plane, but a well known terrorist, to 3 different countries, who had already spent time in Gitmo walks onto a plane with a bomb?
  
  Yeahhhhhhhh I'm sure.
• HitsRus

  

  Maybe you should stitch the water bottle into the crotch of your underpants.....
  
  
  
  Now that you've uncovered this devious plot....you are not worried that 'they' know where you are posting from are you? Those black helicopters don't make a sound......
• eersandbeers

  HitsRus wrote: Maybe you should stitch the water bottle into the crotch of your underpants.....
  
  
  
  Now that you've uncovered this devious plot....you are not worried that 'they' know where you are posting from are you? Those black helicopters don't make a sound......

  So I believe in black helicopters because I am able to use common sense and don't swallow every word the government tells me?
• believer

  

  eersandbeers wrote:So I believe in black helicopters because I am able to use common sense and don't swallow every word the government tells me?

  Some FREE Huddlers do...right Ptown?
• queencitybuckeye

  eersandbeers wrote:
  So I believe in black helicopters because I am able to use common sense and don't swallow every word the government tells me?

  It's more because you don't understand the concept of Occam's Razor, or that vast conspiracies are so difficult to pull of that their probability approaches zero.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  believer wrote:

  eersandbeers wrote:So I believe in black helicopters because I am able to use common sense and don't swallow every word the government tells me?

  Some FREE Huddlers do...right Ptown?

  Yep, that's right. I am a blind sheep.
  
  Actually, I hated the President's remarks yesterday where he basically threw the intelligence agencies under the bus. Yes, the system has flaws (every system does) and it does need tweaked, but do not go making this out to be the worst intelligence disaster ever.
  
  WaPo article explained one intelligence agent's view of the situation,
  

  "Abdulmutallab's father didn't say his son was a terrorist" when he visited the U.S. Embassy, "let alone [that he was] planning an attack. Not at all," one U.S. intelligence official said. "I'm not aware of some magic piece of intelligence that suddenly would have flagged this guy -- whose name nobody even had until November -- as a killer en route to America, let alone something that anybody withheld."

  Kind of hard to stop something when you have no idea how or when.
• eersandbeers

  queencitybuckeye wrote: It's more because you don't understand the concept of Occam's Razor, or that vast conspiracies are so difficult to pull of that their probability approaches zero.

  
  My scenario is far more plausible than yours. The probability is far from zero and the "wag the dog" is hardly a new concept.
  
  
  
  
  The US was aware that "a Nigerian" in Yemen was being prepared for a terrorist attack - weeks before an attempted bombing on a US plane.
  
  ABC News and the New York Times say there was intelligence to this effect, but its source is unclear.
  
  The source of the intelligence about "a Nigerian" in Yemen was reported as coming from the Yemeni government or from US intercept intelligence, which can refer to intercepted e-mail and phone calls
  
  CIA spokesman George Little earlier said the agency had become aware of Mr Abdulmutallab in November when his father, who had lost contact with him, visited the US embassy to seek help in finding him.
  
  He said the agency had ensured the Nigerian's name was added to the government's terrorist database, and was forwarded to the National Counterterrorism Center.
  
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8434805.stm
  
  
  
  So again, a man know to multiple intelligence agencies and already served time in Gitmo somehow sneaks a bomb onto a plane. Yea the probability of that is almost zero.
  
  By the way, Obama is talking about more illegal airstrikes in Yemen. Hmmmm convenient.
• HitsRus

  

  Al Qaida claims resposibility.....that's convienient too! It's just so plausible that they'll cooperate with Obama so he can get his political diversion away from the economy...or was that healthcare? Oh heck who cares...we wouldn't want to get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
• IggyPride00

  

  I'll be curious to see how Obama's folks decide to proceed with this guy's prosecution; whether they'll use a military system or throw him into the same one with the same rights as Americans.
  
  Not a betting man, but I'd bet on the latter since it's the wrong thing to do.

  Well, if they use the Dick Cheney model of trying terrorists that try and blow up planes he will be tried in federal court and then sent to Supermax in Colorado with Shoebomber Richard Reid.
  
  These cases are very similar in almost all phases. Reid also tried to bomb a plan around Christmas (12-22-2001) and he also failed. It seems Al Qaeda is interested in a Christmas strike.
  
  If you haven't noticed by now, this is neither a Republican or Democrat issue because they both handled it the same way regardless of what Dick Cheney wants to say (who I might add is partially responsible for releasing 2 of the Guantanamo terrorists against military recommendations who ultimately trained the underwear bomber).
  
  I saw countless Republicans tonight on various talk shows literally speechless when asked how BHO could be handling this wrong when it took Bush 6 days to comment on the Shoebomber at all and then he also used the federal court system to try them. Not a peep was heard from Dick Cheney then about how Bush was handling it.
  
  I was comfortable how Bush handled it then, and comfortable how Obama is handling it now.