Archive

Sandy Hook

  • stlouiedipalma
    Using kids in Presidential photo ops always makes me think of when W had that "deer in the headlights" look on 9/11 in that classroom. It's pretty obvious that the President is making maximum use of these kids. I don't agree with it, but it's not new at all in American politics. You folks make it out to be simply horrible.
  • QuakerOats
    You are a complete jack as$. Bush was in the middle of meeting with school kids when 9-11 went down. obama is looking at USING kids, after the fact, for political propaganda ------- the difference could not be more stark; nor could the character between the two men. Tell me you are not smoking weed.
  • believer
    QuakerOats;1366974 wrote:You are a complete jack as$. Bush was in the middle of meeting with school kids when 9-11 went down. obama is looking at USING kids, after the fact, for political propaganda ------- the difference could not be more stark; nor could the character between the two men. Tell me you are not smoking weed.
    Be nice. We have a severe Kool Aid drinking problem that ObamaCare promises to remedy, but stlouie is definitely not a pot head. :D
  • ZWICK 4 PREZ
    ccrunner609;1366870 wrote:i am fully convinced
    i am fully surprised

    /sarcasm
  • WebFire
    stlouiedipalma;1366972 wrote:Using kids in Presidential photo ops always makes me think of when W had that "deer in the headlights" look on 9/11 in that classroom. It's pretty obvious that the President is making maximum use of these kids. I don't agree with it, but it's not new at all in American politics. You folks make it out to be simply horrible.
    Those 2 scenarios are not even remotely close to the same.
  • bases_loaded
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-releases-letters-little-kids-pleading-gun-control_696099.html

    How do we get little kids to write letters asking him to step down?
  • Raw Dawgin' it
  • bases_loaded
    ^^^^Same could be said about ObamaCare
  • jhay78
    majorspark;1366795 wrote:Like the little children just spontaneously on their own wrote letters to the president asking him to make them safe.

    More like...
    "good morning boys and girls."
    "Good morning Miss Smith.
    "Did you all hear about the little boys and girls who were hurt by the bad man with the gun at school?"
    "Yes Miss Smith."
    "Get your pens and paper out and we are going to write a letter to President Obama asking him keep bad men from bringing guns to school."

    Not a fan of using kids as political props.
    No different than Obama setting up all those folks in white coats during one of his pressers on health care. As if a few dozen physicians all show up at the WH in those outfits. :rolleyes:
  • HitsRus
    How do we get little kids to write letters asking him to step down?

    ...or how about to quit piling debt onto their backs?
  • bases_loaded
    Those physicians will now be asked to ask you how many guns are in your house....some will even be deputized.
  • BoatShoes
    Raw Dawgin' it;1367078 wrote:
    If all the people in the crowd had guns and wanted to kill him do you think he would be walking the streets even with several SS agents?
  • bases_loaded
    BoatShoes;1367225 wrote:If all the people in the crowd had guns and wanted to kill him do you think he would be walking the streets even with several SS agents?

    Don't follow.
  • BoatShoes
    I think it is a bad move that Obama called for all kinds of legislation that is never going to pass.

    He should've just went with the "mental health" card that gun advocates have seemed to get on board with over the last month...allow people to have AR-15's but try to keep depressed, delusional, insane, people away from guns. If "people kill people" then try keeping "dangerous people" away from guns.

    You'd think those proposals at the very least might have a chance in the House with all the stumping about mental health.

    Assault Weapons Ban, magazine regulations, etc. have no chance. And, those would be inadequate half-assed "gun control' any way. The types of national level gun control that have worked...including hand guns etc. on a national level have zero chance of passing.
  • FatHobbit
    BoatShoes;1367230 wrote:He should've just went with the "mental health" card that gun advocates have seemed to get on board with over the last month...allow people to have AR-15's but try to keep depressed, delusional, insane, people away from guns. If "people kill people" then try keeping "dangerous people" away from guns.

    You'd think those proposals at the very least might have a chance in the House with all the stumping about mental health.
    Do you mean enforcing current laws?
  • BoatShoes
    bases_loaded;1367226 wrote:Don't follow.
    The only reason those guns keep him safer is because the odds suggest that they are an overwhelming force against a lone gunman.

    If Obama was just walkin the streets himself with a concealed carry...he wouldn't be safer against a surprise gunman even if he were highly trained.

    Point being, that it is not the guns per se that keep him safer...it his armed, trained force of body guards who would overwhelm an attacker.

    If there were a bunch of people in the crowd wielding fire arms he wouldn't be walking around like that relying on the protection of his body guards who would be overwhelmed if they started shooting.
  • se-alum
    I didn't get to hear what he had to say today, but I've seen nothing in the Executive Orders that should make anyone mad. It was all stuff that reinterates what should've already been happening, for the most part. The use of the kids was deplorable, but what do you expect from this administration.
  • BoatShoes
    FatHobbit;1367232 wrote:Do you mean enforcing current laws?
    No, not just that. For instance, you don't have to do a background check for a private gun sale and it has been estimated that as many as 40% of all guns sales occur privately. When you fill out ATF form 4473, there is no enforcement mechanism to see if you lied about having a mental illness and it just wasn't properly reported by the state, etc. A lot of mental illness' don't disqualify you. When you cross-check the NICS it doesn't say if the person is on Prozac, has been...has kids in the house on Prozac and if the potential gun buyer is denied the FFL doesn't know why.

    There are lot of people who haven not been "adjudicated as mentally defective" that are probably mentally ill enough to the point that they shouldn't have access to firearms...i.e. the shooters in Aurora, Sandy Hook and Arizona. So, even if the states were properly reporting mentally ill people to the NICS it wouldn't cover a lot of people who the people of the United States have a compelling interest in not allowing to have fire arms.

    There are reasonable ways we could do more to prevent "dangerous people" from getting their hands on guns to go along with enforcing the current laws better. In light of the current push for gun control getting money behind it from folks like Bloomberg...it doesn't seem unreasonable to get behind these types of things.
  • BoatShoes
    se-alum;1367245 wrote:I didn't get to hear what he had to say today, but I've seen nothing in the Executive Orders that should make anyone mad. It was all stuff that reinterates what should've already been happening, for the most part. The use of the kids was deplorable, but what do you expect from this administration.
    Agree with this. Complete dog and pony show that will get us liberals all riled up because the prez is "g3tt1n s3ri0z" bout guns and get hardcore right wingers riled up because it's Obummer being imperial going after guns with executive orders.
  • FatHobbit
    BoatShoes;1367252 wrote:No, not just that. For instance, you don't have to do a background check for a private gun sale and it has been estimated that as many as 40% of all guns sales occur privately. When you fill out ATF form 4473, there is no enforcement mechanism to see if you lied about having mental illness, etc. When you cross-check the NICS it doesn't say if the person is on Prozac, has been...has kids in the house on Prozac and if the potential gun buyer is denied the FFL doesn't know why.

    Additionally, there are lot of people who haven not been "adjudicated as mentally defective" that are probably mentally ill enough to the point that they shouldn't have access to firearms...i.e. the shooters in Aurora, Sandy Hook and Arizona. So, even if the states were properly reporting mentally ill people to the NICS it wouldn't cover a lot of people who the people of the United States have a compelling interest in not allowing to have fire arms.

    There are reasonable ways we could do more to prevent "dangerous people" from getting their hands on guns to go along with enforcing the current laws better. In light of the current push for gun control getting money behind it from folks like Bloomberg...it doesn't seem unreasonable to get behind these types of things.
    Thank you for the clarification.

    I think part of the issue with tracking people with mental health is people are uncomfortable creating a giant database and tracking people with mental health issues. I personally do not want people with mental issues buying guns, but I also don't feel like the government should be able to track people who have mental issues. (and that Dr's should be forced to participate)
  • LJ
    What does someone being on an ssri have to do with anything? Lol. Ssri's are used for many things other than just PTSD and clinical depression. The fact that people wanted people who have ever been on an ssri excluded is laughable.
  • FatHobbit
    se-alum;1367245 wrote:I didn't get to hear what he had to say today, but I've seen nothing in the Executive Orders that should make anyone mad. It was all stuff that reinterates what should've already been happening, for the most part. The use of the kids was deplorable, but what do you expect from this administration.
    Here's the list in case anyone is curious

    1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."
    2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."
    3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."
    4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."
    5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."
    6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."
    7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."
    8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."
    9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."
    10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."
    11. "Nominate an ATF director."
    12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."
    13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."
    14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."
    15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."
    16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."
    17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."
    18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
    19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."
    20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."
    21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."
    22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."
    23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
  • BoatShoes
    LJ;1367263 wrote:What does someone being on an ssri have to do with anything? Lol. Ssri's are used for many things other than just PTSD and clinical depression. The fact that people wanted people who have ever been on an ssri excluded is laughable.
    I understand that...not saying they should be denied/excluded necessarily but that perhaps it should maybe raise a red flag and maybe they have to get checked out. It was just an example anyway.

    Point is, it seems to me this is an approach that gun advocates might consider getting on board with. Would you rather have that or a ban on cool AR-15's that are fun to shoot, bullet taxes, expensive gun insurance, or other thypes of gun control?
  • BoatShoes
    FatHobbit;1367259 wrote:Thank you for the clarification.

    I think part of the issue with tracking people with mental health is people are uncomfortable creating a giant database and tracking people with mental health issues. I personally do not want people with mental issues buying guns, but I also don't feel like the government should be able to track people who have mental issues. (and that Dr's should be forced to participate)
    I understand those concerns but perhaps there's ways you could do it. I don't know. Maybe it's just a database of social security numbers? Driver's license numbers? Just think maybe gun aficionados got on board trying to resolve some of those concerns we might be able to come up with something.

    If I'm king...I'd rather go full bore on these types of things before trying to prevent even average citizens with no indication of being dangerous from having a dangerous firearm.
  • bases_loaded


    Lets see..

    White kid -check
    Black kid - check
    Tan kid - check
    female - check

    Exploit tragedy for progessive gain - check x's 23