Are We Getting Dumber?

• cbus4life

  Well, based on my personal experience, i would have to disagree!
  
  I had a History professor in college who was a liberal, and was even a former labor organizer in South America. But he was the most balanced, thoughtful professor i had, and the conservative kids loved him in class, he fostered debate, and valued their opinion. Same as another liberal professor who was friends with Ginsberg, Kerouac, etc. back in the day, so was obviously rather liberal, but was also loved by the conservative kids, and was as balanced as they come.
  
  My fiancee is a PhD candidate at the University of Michigan, and teaches there as well, and she does not have any of the horror stories you have, and is quite pleased with both the liberal and conservative academics she comes across.
  
  Having spent 6+ years in a university setting for both undergraduate and graduate school, i can't think of one person who showed liberal bias, had an obvious liberal slant, etc. I taught a few undergraduate courses as well, and interacted with other professors on a daily basis.
  
  I had wonderful history teachers and government teachers in high school, and was exposed to numerous different viewpoints.
  
  I was most definitely prepared for college, after leaving high school.
  
  So, i've "personally seen it for myself and experienced it," as well, and it is a no brainer that this can not all be blamed on liberals, socialists in the classroom, etc.
  
  It isn't as cut-and-dry as you make it out to be.
  
  I simply blame it on bad teachers, liberal, conservative, it doesn't matter. Everyone has seen their fair share of both. Use common sense.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Cbus,
  
  If there was a liberal biased in your experience from school, would you notice it - being "liberal" yourself? I'm just asking, there's no "gotcha" coming LOL
• I Wear Pants

  Hell, I could learn almost everything I have in two years of college from wikipedia if I was so inclined.
  
  Information is freely and readily available to those who want it now. It's a great thing.
  
  Oh, and it's totally the liberals fault. Clearly ruined everything. I mean look at their massive failure of an education bill "No Child Left Behind". Oh wait...
• Cleveland Buck

  

  Our schools are dumbed down to give everyone a chance to 'succeed', so they are putting idiots out into the real world. Call it whatever you want and blame whoever you want.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  I don't think the schools are dumbed down. The procedures of pass/fail are watered down.
• ytownfootball

  

  ernest_t_bass wrote: I don't think the schools are dumbed down. The procedures of pass/fail are watered down.

  The procedures of pass/fail have the end result of schools being dumbed down.
  
  I see very few posts that are bourne of real experience. A lot of what I see posted is the result of lecture and ideology.
  
  What is the effect of the newer methodologies mandated by states as required course curriculum?
  
  What are the benefits/drawbacks of tenure status and teacher unions in a publicly funded entity?
  
  What mechanics are in place to require instructor accountablity and improvement?
  
  Are there any programs in place that reward instructor effectiveness?
  
  Are federal testing mandates holding back the majority of students capable of moving forward?
• Sonofanump

  The answer to this question is really easy.
  
  Go to Walmart and imagine the people you see there breeding.
• Apple

  

  ^^^ I just threw up a little bit in my mouth...
• NYBuckeye96

  I think there are two problems with education in the US.........
  
  1. Standardized tests. Teachers can no longer "teach". Rather, they must prepare students to answer the questions they will find on standardized tests.
  
  2. Parental reliance on teachers to teach kids everything they need to know. When I was growing up, my parents always provided me with outside resources for education.......books to read, trips to museums/historic sites, etc. I think it is the responsibility of parents to help fill in the gaps that teachers can't.
  
  Someone mentioned earlier that history isn't appropriately taught in schools. I agree with this, but it is so easy for kids to be exposed to history. Especially in this day and age. I just did a quick youtube search for the collapse of the berlin wall in '89 and found dozens of video archives of the event. If your kid isn't being taught about the fall of communism in the 80s (or any other subject) then the parents should sit down with their child and do simple things like an internet search on the topic. Parents need to take a proactive role in education for their children.
• majorspark

  

  NYBuckeye96 wrote: I think there are two problems with education in the US.........
  
  1. Standardized tests. Teachers can no longer "teach". Rather, they must prepare students to answer the questions they will find on standardized tests.
  
  2. Parental reliance on teachers to teach kids everything they need to know. When I was growing up, my parents always provided me with outside resources for education.......books to read, trips to museums/historic sites, etc. I think it is the responsibility of parents to help fill in the gaps that teachers can't.
  
  Someone mentioned earlier that history isn't appropriately taught in schools. I agree with this, but it is so easy for kids to be exposed to history. Especially in this day and age. I just did a quick youtube search for the collapse of the berlin wall in '89 and found dozens of video archives of the event. If your kid isn't being taught about the fall of communism in the 80s (or any other subject) then the parents should sit down with their child and do simple things like an internet search on the topic. Parents need to take a proactive role in education for their children.

  You are correct. Parents need to take a more proactive role. They can be the trump card when it comes to shortcomings in their childrens education. I have called my kids to watch a few youtube videos myself. We watched, discussed, and they learned.
• sleeper

  

  I know liberals are getting dumber, just look at the election of this CLOWN Obama.
  
  That is all.
• Gobuckeyes1

  Apple wrote:

  Gobuckeyes1 wrote: ...If this really is such a "no-brainer" as you suggest, then you should be able to provide some facts and research backing up your opinion...

  Does personal experience count in you world? ...Like being married to a then college education major and then high school teacher for 14 years? Having children who went to both Catholic grade school then public high school? What about having taught college classes and dealing with colleagues and college administrators?
  
  I don't need to read some scholar's published article to know how f'd-up the education system is due to liberalism, I've freaking personally seen it for myself and experienced it!!! So yes, to me it is most assuredly a no-brainer!!!

  My personal experience from having taught in public schools for nine years is that there is no systemic liberal bias there. More of my colleagues are conservative than liberal, and there is no liberal brainwashing program in place. I teach in a rural public high school, so the community tends to be more conservative as a whole, which would make flaming liberal biases stand out even more. It just isn't there.
  
  The driving force in education over the past decade has been No Child Left Behind, and that sure as hell isn't a liberal mandate. Education is no different than any other area of society...there conservatives, liberals, and moderates, and the majority of them do their jobs well and aren't pushing an agenda.
• Sonofanump

  Gobuckeyes1 wrote:I teach in a rural public high school, so the community tends to be more conservative as a whole, which would make flaming liberal biases stand out even more. It just isn't there.

  I bet (actually I know this to be true based on my experience) that you see the exact opposite in most metro school districts.
• Captain Cavalier

  

  ytownfootball wrote:My 10 year old comes home with math homework and the method is not anything like we were taught. She's confused on how answers are obtained until I show her how I was taught and you see the light bulb come on.

  Tinkertrain wrote: Homework is harder because we are forcing kids to do thing's earlier.

  ytownfootball wrote:The procedures of pass/fail have the end result of schools being dumbed down.

  Agreed
  

  eersandbeers wrote: As far as high school students, I think we are getting dumber. I was so unprepared for college and lacked the basic math, science, and English skills that I possess today. We aren't teaching history (which is a benefit for the government), and kids are generally unaware of all world events. Basically American high school students, in general, are stupid.

  Would a better word be ignorant?
  

  ytownfootball wrote: What mechanics are in place to require instructor accountablity and improvement? Are there any programs in place that reward instructor effectiveness?

  I've always wondered that myself. If a teacher's students get an average of a B+ with a 4 year degree then goes and gets their masters and the students still get a B+ average, what justifies paying them more just because they have a masters?
  

  NYBuckeye96 wrote:2. Parental reliance on teachers to teach kids everything they need to know. When I was growing up, my parents always provided me with outside resources for education.......books to read, trips to museums/historic sites, etc. I think it is the responsibility of parents to help fill in the gaps that teachers can't. Parents need to take a proactive role in education for their children.

  It's starts at home. If parents rely totally on the "system" to educate their children and don't interact, they shouldn't be surprised if their children lag behind.
• HitsRus

  

  Gobuckeyes1 wrote: Liberal this, liberal that....blame the liberals...and follow Rush and Hannity and Beck and do exactly as they say. That way you don't have to do any thinking on your own...they can just tell you what to think. Makes it nice and easy.

  and add this,,,,
• HitsRus

  

  Coming from a family of teachers past and present, there is a general feeling that that college education departments are bastions of liberal thought and teaching methods. E. g....whole language vs phonics...social skills vs the 3R's. More time is allocated teaching diversity and focusing on self esteem...not enough on basic math, science and reading skills.
• Gobuckeyes1

  It's starts at home. If parents rely totally on the "system" to educate their children and don't interact, they shouldn't be surprised if their children lag behind.

  "This" x 1000
  
  Don't blame one ideology or the other for shortcomings in your child's education. If you totally entrust your child's education to a stranger (who may be liberal or conservative...doesn't matter) you are bound to be disappointed.
• redstreak one

  

  I have a 6 year old son just halfway through his kindergarten year. He can read at the 1st grade level, count to 200, by 1's, 2's, 5's, and 10's. He can add and subtract single digit numbers and multiply the digits 1-5. I have a 3 year old daughter that my wife and I work with everyday as well. No dumbing down on the individuals part, but the educational system as a whole is an ever changing beast.
  
  As someone stated earlier, if parents take charge, their children will be ready for anything!
• cbus4life

  CenterBHSFan wrote: Cbus,
  
  If there was a liberal biased in your experience from school, would you notice it - being "liberal" yourself? I'm just asking, there's no "gotcha" coming LOL

  Yes, i would, because, i like to think, i'm intelligent enough and aware enough to notice. I know what it means to be "liberal" and would recognize a professor slanting too far to that side.
  
  I really think this whole complaint at the academic level is overblown.
  
  Yes, i do not disagree that there are more liberal than conservative professors in college.
  
  But, that does not mean, as a result, that those professors are espousing their own views in the classroom, at the expense of other views.
  
  As my own experience dictates, i've had numerous who, outside of their classroom, are incredibly liberal, but inside the classroom, are as balanced as they come.