Palestine/Israel Conflict

• Con_Alma

  Footwedge;1333457 wrote:No...we need to dominate the world and make sure everyone knows you don't **** with the United States. We built this global empire through decades of excruciatingly hard hard by a collection of silver tongued chickenhawks.
  
  We spend 1.1 trillion a year on defense related thingies to ensure that we maintain our global hegemon. We emulate the Romans of yesteryear....who proved how wonderful global dominance truly is...especially given the fact that our country just rolls around in money surpluses.
  
  Our latest innovative war toys include kamakazi planes without the pilots. How cool is that? With these unmanned missiles, we can kill 40 civilians for every bad guy we get.....and the best part is that the mainstream media never criticizes us for the daily war criminality.
  
  It's a win, win baby.

  Hey, I actually agree!
• gut

  Footwedge;1334429 wrote:Millions upon millions of Americans view our ridiculous foreign policy the same way as I do. Our economic woes, exposure to terrorism, and the hatred towards our country abroad is specifically and directly related towards our global governance, dominance and occupation.

  Part of the problem is they shouldn't expect us to write the checks and be the world police and not have a strong say in what's done. It's a microcosm of the entitlement class here - people want the rich to give them stuff AND expect the rich to just shut-up and take it.
  
  You can go completely the other direction and just shut down everything and then you'll have people hating the US for providing leadership and for not using its wealth to make the world a better place.
• Footwedge

  gut;1334634 wrote:Part of the problem is they shouldn't expect us to write the checks and be the world police and not have a strong say in what's done. It's a microcosm of the entitlement class here - people want the rich to give them stuff AND expect the rich to just shut-up and take it.
  
  You can go completely the other direction and just shut down everything and then you'll have people hating the US for providing leadership and for not using its wealth to make the world a better place.

  If I am understanding your post correctly, you are saying that the Middle Easterners want our presence over there. Nothing could be further from the truth.
  
  If you have the interest, look up how the Iraqi citizenry feel about what we did over there....and what we continue to do. If you think Iraqis view our inhabitance there as an entitlement, you are terribly mistaken.
  
  I saw a great political cartoon on the webz the other day. My computer skills in importing pics does not exist. But the gist of it was a guy with a military uni on saying....
  
  "So we're leaving Iraq and Afghanistan....just like we did Korea, Japan and Germany."
  
  Oh....how true.
• isadore

  it sure would be hell for the world if Iraq and Afghanistan turned into rich, friendly democratic countries like Germany, Japan and South Korea.
• jhay78

  

  LOL at all the outrage over Israelis building settlements in the West Bank. I mean, nothing says "belligerent" and "act of war" quite like building houses and apartments. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
• isadore

  jhay78;1335483 wrote:LOL at all the outrage over Israelis building settlements in the West Bank. I mean, nothing says "belligerent" and "act of war" quite like building houses and apartments. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

  it does when someone else builds them on what you think is your land.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1335545 wrote:it does when someone else builds them on what you think is your land.

  Think is the key word here. Ask the American Indians.
• isadore

  majorspark;1335564 wrote:Think is the key word here. Ask the American Indians.

  The Arab population is not a small fraction compared to the Israeli population as the Indian were. And they are not going to make peace with someone taken more and more of what they consider to be their land.
• gut

  Footwedge;1335420 wrote:If I am understanding your post correctly, you are saying that the Middle Easterners want our presence over there. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  I'm not saying that. I'm saying everyone, globally, holds out their hand. They'll gladly take our money. They want our army, too, when it's needed to stop genocide, a brutal dictator, etc...
  
  And, actually, I think the Arab Spring dissidents kind of wanted a bit more help, too. Not wanting us there permanently is entirely different from expecting help, indirectly and directly, when it's convenient to them.
  
  Like I said, no different than the entitled dependents here. They operate out of self-interest like 100% of the rest of the world. And the lesson for people is when you want something from someone, they usually want something in return. The latter part is what pisses off the entitled because it's all about them.
• jhay78

  

  isadore;1335545 wrote:it does when someone else builds them on what you think is your land.

  Haha, then don't sidestep the "final status negotiations" in favor of a fraud vote before all the thugs and third-world banana republic dictators and human rights abusers over at the UN.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1335570 wrote:The Arab population is not a small fraction compared to the Israeli population as the Indian were. And they are not going to make peace with someone taken more and more of what they consider to be their land.

  As you can see population does not matter. Ask the American Indians why they were not able to procure advanced weaponry and technology.
• isadore

  jhay78;1335686 wrote:Haha, then don't sidestep the "final status negotiations" in favor of a fraud vote before all the thugs and third-world banana republic dictators and human rights abusers over at the UN.

  the General Assembly voted by a huge majority to recognize Palestine within the 1967 borders as a non-member state with observer status in the organization. Some 138 countries voted in favor of the resolution, 41 abstained and 9 voted against: Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, U.S., Panama, The Marshall Islands, Palau, Nauru, and Micronesia.
  http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/in-historic-vote-palestine-becomes-non-member-un-state-with-observer-status-1.481531
  
  I guess they have support of a large section of the pacific ocean.
• isadore

  majorspark;1335715 wrote:As you can see population does not matter. Ask the American Indians why they were not able to procure advanced weaponry and technology.

  gosh a ruddies, no. At Battles like Little Big horn the Indians were better armed than the cavalry, repeating rifles to single shot. But just as importantly they had the numbers advantage. Diminishing population and diplomatic isolation doomed them. That is not the problem for the Palestinians.
  http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/06/dayintech_0625/
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1335756 wrote:gosh a ruddies, no. At Battles like Little Big horn the Indians were better armed than the cavalry, repeating rifles to single shot. But just as importantly they had the numbers advantage.

  One small battle??? LOL. Ask the American Indians how well that worked for them.
  

  isadore;1335756 wrote:Diminishing population and diplomatic isolation doomed them. That is not the problem for the Palestinians.

  Agreed that they breed like rabbits and have some diplomatic support. But like I said they have not been able to procure the advanced weaponry and technology the Israelis have. The heaviest weapon the Palestinians have is a grossly inaccurate rocket. About as effective as the bow and arrow. The Israelis could root the Palestinians out of the West Bank and Gaza strip with tanks, highly trained well equipped infantry, and supported by precision guided munitions dropped from the air in short order. The hum of unmanned Israeli drones seeking targets would fill the ears of Palestinians like lawnmowers on a Saturday afternoon.
  
  The Israelis posses weaponry that could incinerate Arab cities in excess of tenfold their population. No population does not matter. Weaponry does. The Palestinians can only rely on diplomatic pressures and the Israelis morality in using such weapons. Unless they can procure equal weaponry of their own they will continue to exist on diminishing pockets of land. Just ask the American Indians.
• isadore

  majorspark;1335912 wrote:One small battle??? LOL. Ask the American Indians how well that worked for them.
  
  
  
  Agreed that they breed like rabbits and have some diplomatic support. But like I said they have not been able to procure the advanced weaponry and technology the Israelis have. The heaviest weapon the Palestinians have is a grossly inaccurate rocket. About as effective as the bow and arrow. The Israelis could root the Palestinians out of the West Bank and Gaza strip with tanks, highly trained well equipped infantry, and supported by precision guided munitions dropped from the air in short order. The hum of unmanned Israeli drones seeking targets would fill the ears of Palestinians like lawnmowers on a Saturday afternoon.
  
  The Israelis posses weaponry that could incinerate Arab cities in excess of tenfold their population. No population does not matter. Weaponry does. The Palestinians can only rely on diplomatic pressures and the Israelis morality in using such weapons. Unless they can procure equal weaponry of their own they will continue to exist on diminishing pockets of land. Just ask the American Indians.

  There are scores of Indian victories including a big one in Ohio where in 1791 they slaughtered a major party of the US army on the upper Wabash. Their problem was diminishing population and diplomatic isolation. Neither are factors for the Palestinians. On the other hand population and diplomatic isolation can increasingly be for Israel.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1335950 wrote:There are scores of Indian victories including a big one in Ohio where in 1791 they slaughtered a major party of the US army on the upper Wabash.

  Ask the American Indians how these "victories" worked out for them. Casinos and tax free cigarettes?
• Gblock

  people have been fighting over this land for 2000+ years and probably will for 2000 more.
• isadore

  majorspark;1335998 wrote:Ask the American Indians how these "victories" worked out for them. Casinos and tax free cigarettes?

  because they lacked numbers and were diplomatically isolated.
• Gblock

  I thought it was disease that did the most damage to the native american population
• FatHobbit

  

  Gblock;1336096 wrote:I thought it was disease that did the most damage to the native american population

  You could argue that was from biological weapons.
• isadore

  Gblock;1336096 wrote:I thought it was disease that did the most damage to the native american population

  right causing them to have a diminishing population v a rapidly expanding US population.
• derek bomar

  

  Fuck Religion
• Footwedge

  jhay78;1335483 wrote:LOL at all the outrage over Israelis building settlements in the West Bank. I mean, nothing says "belligerent" and "act of war" quite like building houses and apartments. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

  You do not understand what expanding settlements actually entail. A hint.....throwing Palestinians off of the land....bulldozing down their little shanties...and then building big beautiful homes for their own people. If you think that is healthy, then I feel sorry for you.
  
  I shake my head at your one sided bias towards Israel's policies aping the mantra that their shit never smells...because it does smell...to high heaven.
  
  Read Carter's book "Peace not Apartheid"...and then you would have a clue.